Why Are My Swimbaits Surfacing?

[porkmeatballs]

I'm still pretty new at making my own lures so I still have A LOT of questions lol. Can anyone tell me why my hard swimbaits keep surfacing? They all sink, but when I go to reel them in they just go to the surface again. This is extremely frustrating for me because almost all my SBs do this and I wanted to make some that stay down during the retrieve.   Thanks for helping me along TU!

[JimP]

Let me guess, cast resin baits and no additional ballast weight?

 

We need to know more about what you have going on.

[Vodkaman]

We need some pictures to help you.

 

Dave

[porkmeatballs]

Yeah these are all resin with some lead ballast in the bottom... I don't know how to attach pictures yet...

[JimP]

You might fix the problem by adding more weight.  Install as low as you can in the body.  You can even tape some weight to the bottom as an experiment to prove if that is your problem.  If that does not fix the blow out you have something going on with the dive lip or the line tie.  For that problem Dave (aka Vodkaman) is the go to person, and has already offered to help. 

 

Take some time and figure out the photo posting procedure, its difficult to offer much help otherwise.

[porkmeatballs]

Huh I can't figure it out unless I start another topic and attach the pictures there...

[RayburnGuy]

Huh I can't figure it out unless I start another topic and attach the pictures there...

 

In the reply box click on "More Reply Options". It's in the lower right hand corner of the "Reply to this topic" box. After you click on the button just follow the directions.

 

Ben

[porkmeatballs]

Wow thanks! These are a few of my baits... 

[Vodkaman]

The baits look great, and I can see a very nice 'S' action going on there.

 

The problem with this style of bait, is that there is nothing driving the bait down the water column, compared to a lipped bait. The bait swims straight and the line pulls the bait up to the surface, as the line feels the resistance of the water.

 

I have never tried to drive this kind of bait down, but if I did, the thing I would try would be to position the tow eye higher up the bait, onto the forehead.

 

Nose heavy internal weighting, so the bait rests nose down, might grab you 12" of depth, but I have not tried this, as people generally want their baits to rest horizontal.

 

Another alternative is a lead weight mounted a couple of feet in front of the bait, to drag it down. Trial and error to find the size of the weight, just enough to overcome the line resistance at the speed of your retrieval.

 

Dave

[SW Lures]

Design wise, the one bait is not a hydrodynamic shape. As it has been stated here many times, any change creates a effect (good or bad). The open mouth can create a restriction or even a twist action, upward, sideward push etc.

Without a lip/bill and not really knowing ballast positions. I really have not got an idea why except for what I stated.

This I do know, the bait must have something to push it down. When you are cranking a bait in you are above the bait (most of the time) you are pulling the bait up. Unless your rod tip is parallel or below the bait. Therefore you must have something to drive the bait down.

Even lipless baits have a design and ballast to drive them downward. The lip or flat spot on the head, if done right can even help with what I call barrel rolling or twisting.

Testing different ballast positions can help you to understanding what this design can do. I agree with Dave, you will most likely not get no more then a very shallow diver as it is.

I hope this helps,

Dale

Edited May 10, 2016 by DaleSW

[porkmeatballs]

Thanks guys! Right now I'm just trying to perfect my trout. So I should try adding more weight to the front and putting the line tie on the upper lip?

[SW Lures]

Let's us know how it goes.

[JRammit]

Thanks guys! Right now I'm just trying to perfect my trout. So I should try adding more weight to the front and putting the line tie on the upper lip?

Only speaking from what ive read, i think more weight in each section... A swimbait needs rest or sink horizontal.... If one section sinks faster, it may bind up your joints killing the swim action/sole purpose

Ive been putting this off for a while out of fear... But i think id like a hard swimbait in my tackle box soon

[porkmeatballs]

Only speaking from what ive read, i think more weight in each section... A swimbait needs rest or sink horizontal.... If one section sinks faster, it may bind up your joints killing the swim action/sole purpose

Ive been putting this off for a while out of fear... But i think id like a hard swimbait in my tackle box soon

 

 

I haven't really had that problem so far, but thanks for the input! Yeah you should really try out hard swimbaits. They have A LOT of pros. Plus, they don't rip up and... yeah you get the point. I love them 

[diemai]

To me , it's the nature of the business , that such lures rise to the surface on retrieve more or less , .....they are just not suited to fish depths beyond 10 feet .

 

To keep them that deep at all, one must place more weight , possibly into the front and second section only(overweighting rear sections kills their snaking action) to let them sink at a rate of about one foot/second , ...second option is , in conjunction with more ballast , to place a more or less downward pointing diving bill underneath the chin .

 

Also one should pause the retrieve now and then to allow the bait to drop back to maintain it's working depth.

 

Good luck , Dieter

Edited May 12, 2016 by diemai

[SW Lures]

@JR

I have been fishing with my single body baits (stick), with good success. So I have started a swim bait. I understand the fear of failure. We put a lot of time into a lure prototypes.

But if we don't give it a try then we will never know how to do it or that we maybe good at it.. I look at a new type as a challenge and doing each of them, as being fun, failure or not. If I'm wrong.....I have learn not to. If I'm right then I have learnt something valuable. It's fun to learn and to experience errors or accomplishments even at my age.

So when someone jumps off into the unknown, I try to help if I can. I think that's why most of us try to help others. Design, shaping is new to me. But I will give any design a go. I also enjoy talking about this topic. That's when someone may correct me and send me into the right direction rather than going into a trial and error mode. Always ask a question.

Always give it a go, you will never know if you don't.

Dale

Edited May 12, 2016 by DaleSW

[JRammit]

Thanks Dale

I feel the same way... I enjoy a challenge, and ive invested plenty of time in plenty of failures already...... The swimbait is just a little "phobia" i havnt faced yet.... Its also a bait ive never fished with, so it will be a double learning curve

[porkmeatballs]

To me , it's the nature of the business , that such lures rise to the surface on retrieve more or less , .....they are just not suited to fish depths beyond 10 feet .

 

To keep them that deep at all, one must place more weight , possibly into the front and second section only(overweighting rear sections kills their snaking action) to let them sink at a rate of about one foot/second , ...second option is , in conjunction with more ballast , to place a more or less downward pointing diving bill underneath the chin .

 

Also one should pause the retrieve now and then to allow the bait to drop back to maintain it's working depth.

 

Good luck , Dieter

 

 

Thanks for the input! Should I put the same amount of ballast in both the sections or should I put more in the front? Some people say that the bait should sit head down and some say that it should rest horizontally... As for the bill, I tried that a couple times, but the action was always to "tight" for my liking.

 

 

Thanks Dale

I feel the same way... I enjoy a challenge, and ive invested plenty of time in plenty of failures already...... The swimbait is just a little "phobia" i havnt faced yet.... Its also a bait ive never fished with, so it will be a double learning curve

 

I definitely do think that trying to make a swimbait will teach you a lot! My first baits were really bad, but practice makes perfect! It's also very fun IMO to carve all the detailing to make a wood block look so tasty 

[diemai]

@ porkmeatballs

 

I have only made a handful of swimbaits so far , always tried to let them sink at a horizontal level , but for no other reason but a natural appearance .

 

But I figure out , that a slightly head-down sinking level might enhance  a deeper running of the bait , .....though I'm not sure about that .

 

All I know is , that down the single segments from front to rear the ballast per each segment should decrease , meaning that most ballast should sit in the first section , the second heaviest load in the second section and just a little or possibly no ballast in the third and especially the following sections down the rear .

 

To let a swimbait do it's snaking motions , vortices down the flanks are generated by the first and biggest section , these vortices flowing down the flanks of the bait cause the second , third and following section to move sidewards to achieve the typical snaking action ,.......so if these rear sections would become too heavy due to added ballast , the vortices would come to lack sufficient power to move those heavier sections and the bait won't work well anymore .

 

This is why the first section in front is usually the biggest and most voluminous section of the bait , ....it is the "engine" of the entire bait , so to speak , ......if any rear sections would be made as big and voluminous , the bait won't perform, ........well , apart from a two-section bait !

 

But I won't call such a typical swimbait , but some sort of a two-section glidebait , as it won't "snake" within, but come back in a wave pattern at constant pull or break out sideward on initial jerks .

 

Greetings , Dieter

[porkmeatballs]

Thanks for the write-up! I'll try those things on my next swimbait. Hopefully with all these changes my baits will stay down in the water column. I'm also making a clay bluegill master with a lower forehead to see if it will help the surfacing problem.

[porkmeatballs]

For those who use resin, would the ratio of microballoons to resin make a difference?

[JRammit]

For those who use resin, would the ratio of microballoons to resin make a difference?

Absolutely

More microballoons obviously = more buoyancy.... But also = slightly weaker product and = thicker/harder to pour

Its a trial and error process, and the down side is you cant re-melt screw ups like plastisol

But it has an upside too.. Fuller tackle box with less time invested (once you get it right)

[Chuck Young]

I don't know a lot about swimbaits, but on the crappie I'm developing I flattened the top of the head and put two attachment points. One is 3/16" from the front. Second is 1/2" from the front. It is 4" long, sinks level and slowly, and swims with 2 different actions. I think the flat head(5/8 x 1) keeps it down and helps the action. 

[mark poulson]

crappie swimbait 001.JPGI don't know a lot about swimbaits, but on the crappie I'm developing I flattened the top of the head and put two attachment points. One is 3/16" from the front. Second is 1/2" from the front. It is 4" long, sinks level and slowly, and swims with 2 different actions. I think the flat head(5/8 x 1) keeps it down and helps the action. 

 

I think you're right about the flat head.  It acts as a diving bill, driving the nose down, especially when you use the line tie that's 1/2" from the front.  The same thing keeps a lipless crankbait like a rattle trap down on the retrieve.

[Vodkaman]

The lightest that I could get the resin with MB's was around SG 0.67 which is the equivalent of a heavy density wood. The thickness was that of mustard, so it could not be poured, but I did manage to inject the mix with a cake icing syringe.

 

Dave