Chatterbait from Sparkie mold

[EironBreaker]

I found an old Sparkie weedless mold in a flea market a few months ago.  Got it cheap.  I thought it would be good for making chatterbaits with, I like a chatterbait with a weed guard. 

I happened to have some of the herring head underspin inserts laying on the bench and thought "well those look like they will fit just right."  Sure do, used a long shank SB hook and the L bend of the insert hooks the hook eye just right so there is a strong connection after pouring.  So no need to add a split ring, just slip on the blade and bend the wire shut.  A 4/0 long shank hook worked for the 3/8, 1/2 and 5/8 sizes.  A 3/0 regular length SB hook worked for 1/4 oz.

Of course these are just for my personal use, I don't need a cease and desist letter.  But if anyone wants to make your own chatterbaits like the original, the herring head inserts can serve dual purpose instead of buying the figure 8 loops also.

[JLS]

Not that it matters to me but just so you know, it is illegal to build or posses any lure that infringes on a patent.

[Jeff Hahn]

32 minutes ago, JLS said:

Not that it matters to me but just so you know, it is illegal to build or posses any lure that infringes on a patent.

My understanding is that you can make any bait that is patented...as long as you are NOT selling them.  Thus, you are not profiting from someone else's patent.  However, making them for personal use is legal. 

 

EironBreaker:  Can you post a link to Lure parts online, Jann's, or Barlow's for the herring underspin inert that you used?  Thanks in advance. 

Edited February 22, 2017 by Jeff Hahn

[Jeff Hahn]

I found the herring underspin insert at Lure Parts Online.  But, they are currently out of stock.  And, it looks like Jann's and Barlow's don't carry them.

[21xdc]

Did you look on the do-it web site?

[Walking Dead]

EB, yes that works as well as the wire form for the PT Swing head. Either reversing or just cutting the wire on the bottom and attaching the blade.

[psilvers]

Barlow's also has them ---

http://www.barlowstackle.com/Connector-Links-P835.aspx

 

However, I have a question for you guys about the chatterbait - I have not looked at the patent, but I was wondering what aspects of the lure are patented. Is it the connection and the blade shape (coffin blade)?  I am a bit puzzled because I see companies (LPO, Barlow's, etc) selling "jig dancer blades" that are similar. Folks aren't buying these blades by the hundreds for their own use. So, if you make a bladed jig with one of those blades and use split ring connectors - or some other type of connection - is it in violation of the chatterbait patent?

 

Thanks,

Pete

[cadman]

The patent is on the coffin style blade and the attachment of the blade to the hook. You can make as many as you want if it doesn't conflict with those two concepts.  

[Walking Dead]

https://patents.google.com/patent/US7726062B2/en

 

http://www.scout.com/outdoors/wired2fish/story/1643402-z-man-awarded-another-utility-patent

[psilvers]

Thanks Cadman and Walking Dead! I will have to check those out. At this point I have been doing this as a hobby for a number of years, but I have a design of my own that I may try to patent. That design is NOT related to the chatterbait. However, I was thinking of doing something with  bladed jig style of lure also.

 

Pete

[EironBreaker]

JLS, not the correct info.  I can build and posses as many as I want as long as I'm not selling them.  I sell chatter-type baits but the blade connection is with a split ring on a cross-eye hook.  Totally legal.  Just can't connect the blade directly to the wire and sell them.  I think both styles give a vibration unique to each.

Zeiner's is another good place to get molds and mold supplies.  There are two herring head insert sizes.  I used the larger size.

[JLS]

12 hours ago, Jeff Hahn said:

My understanding is that you can make any bait that is patented...as long as you are NOT selling them.  Thus, you are not profiting from someone else's patent.  However, making them for personal use is legal. 

 

EironBreaker:  Can you post a link to Lure parts online, Jann's, or Barlow's for the herring underspin inert that you used?  Thanks in advance. 

That used to be my understanding also but then I found out otherwise while checking to see if I was infringing on a patent. The patent that I was checking on is the one on Z-Mans chatterbait.

One of my baits did infringe on the patent so I questioned them about how I could legally get rid of those baits and was informed that they could not be made or possesed. I could not donate them to a high school or college team and ended up disasembeling them.

 

[JLS]

2 hours ago, cadman said:

The patent is on the coffin style blade and the attachment of the blade to the hook. You can make as many as you want if it doesn't conflict with those two concepts.  

The claims on that patent are 1- that the blade is on an eyelet with the blade pointing upward. 2- that the blade comes in contact with the head through the action that it has (creating the chatter). 3- That through the action of the bait, the blade also contacts the eyelet, causing more chatter. There were more but those 3 were the most important to me.

It is perfectly legal to build these using a split ring to attach the blade.

There are ways to attach the blade without a ring but 1 needs to make sure that they are not violating any of the above claims. I believe that Tightlines UV has filed a patent on the way that they attach the blade also but doubt that it has been granted yet. I did not file a patent on the way that I attach mine but do have one filled on other parts of my bait.

[mark poulson]

If you are not selling your chatterbaits, there is no reason for anyone to pursue you with a cease and desist order.

They got a patent to protect their ability to make money from their unique design.  Making baits for yourself is not enough of a threat to their income to warrant any action.

If you ask them, they will say no, because granting permission to one person would open them up to losing their right to control their patent.

But they won't come after you in your garage, just tinkering around.  
 

[JLS]

9 hours ago, mark poulson said:

If you are not selling your chatterbaits, there is no reason for anyone to pursue you with a cease and desist order.

They got a patent to protect their ability to make money from their unique design.  Making baits for yourself is not enough of a threat to their income to warrant any action.

If you ask them, they will say no, because granting permission to one person would open them up to losing their right to control their patent.

But they won't come after you in your garage, just tinkering around.  
 

If you are knocking off their bait, you are hurting their ability to make $$ off of their product.  These companies spend a lot of time researching how to best build their baits and then have huge tooling and startup costs just to have guys say "WOW I like that, think I'll knock it off"

You are correct though, companies will never waste the time and $$$$ chasing down every knock off artist......... which I am greatfull for, cause I did knock a bait off myself for a couple of months.

Guess I have spent way to much time in my shop, I somehow missed when tackle crafting switched from being about trying to create/invent lures to how to be a better knock off artist.

[Apdriver]

36 minutes ago, JLS said:

Guess I have spent way to much time in my shop, I somehow missed when tackle crafting switched from being about trying to create/invent lures to how to be a better knock off artist.

Hmm, since you brought this up and defined what tacklcrafting should be, for some of us it has never been and never will be about inventing the next best bait. Some of us just like making our own jigs, hardbaits, plastics, and other lures, weights and whatnot. For me, that's what tacklecrafting is. My point being, everyone has their own definition. 

[JLS]

13 minutes ago, Apdriver said:

Hmm, since you brought this up and defined what tacklcrafting should be, for some of us it has never been and never will be about inventing the next best bait. Some of us just like making our own jigs, hardbaits, plastics, and other lures, weights and whatnot. For me, that's what tacklecrafting is. My point being, everyone has their own definition. 

Yes sir, I done that myself for a lot of years and that is tackle crafting.

I will admit that my response was not well thought out but it was geared more towards this thread and the thought that they should be allowed to steal the latest designs. It will always be my opinion that if they want the latest and greatest design, they should create it.

[Walking Dead]

Appears to be getting worse JLS.  Pretty harsh to use the word steal.  If it is put out there then it will be replicated and possibly improved.  Not sure of how much original is out there left, maybe one or two a year that mostly is sold via hype and marketing.  Now from your definition, one would have to forge or cast their own hooks, plastic inject their own design for a crank, bend their own wire, stamp their own blades, twist their own snap swivels, shape their own balsa, etc.  I agree with AP and many one the site, it is all about the crafting, modification, own colors for a hobby.  As for stealing; the big manufactures are doing it daily, within the law.

[psilvers]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but one of my baits is actually a unique design that I will probably patent. My questions about the chatterbait were not meant to try and figure a way around the Z-Man patent so that we could compete with them.  I wanted to know what was protected because some of the attributes of the chatterbait might be useful to incorporate into a bait that would be different from what Z-Man is producing. So, some of what I may do in the near future involves an entirely new bait, as well as other baits that are not just "knock offs" but that do incorporate some features of baits on the market.  Basically, I am not trying to "steal" anything, I am just trying to find out what aspects are protected (i.e. unique) and what aspects are not.

 

Pete

[JLS]

5 hours ago, Walking Dead said:

Appears to be getting worse JLS.  Pretty harsh to use the word steal.  If it is put out there then it will be replicated and possibly improved.  Not sure of how much original is out there left, maybe one or two a year that mostly is sold via hype and marketing.  Now from your definition, one would have to forge or cast their own hooks, plastic inject their own design for a crank, bend their own wire, stamp their own blades, twist their own snap swivels, shape their own balsa, etc.  I agree with AP and many one the site, it is all about the crafting, modification, own colors for a hobby.  As for stealing; the big manufactures are doing it daily, within the law.

Didn't know that I had provided a definition to anything but you couldn't be more wrong.  Any patented hooks, blades, wires, and heads that are available for purchase (for further completion); will arrive at your door for you to use in any manner you see fit. All of the companies that manufacture those parts do have the disclaimer "they will not be held responsible if you use their parts to infringe on someone else patent" (or something like that) but you actually purchase the rights to use their products when you purchase from them or any resaler that purchases from them. 

As for the whole stealing thing, feel free to call it whatever makes you happy. I really didn't reply to this thread to try to end up being everyones moral compass; I simply had information about the patent in question and shared.

There is absolutly nothing wrong with modifying, improving upon a lure design and if it is done in a way that does not infringe on the original patent, you can patent your changes; big manufacturers are doing it daily.