RiverMan

http://www.tuktupaddles.com/tuktu_paddles_wood.html

You might also try attaching the skin to a larger bait, from my experience smaller baits tend to be more squirly...touchy to changes in their shape. As I mentioned before, don't forget to consider using a photo finish on the bait. If you want scent, attach a small piece of velcro to the belly of the bait and fill it with your favorite attractant. You can also incorporate a piece of foam or yarn into the back of the hook and fill it with scent. Just some ideas! Have fun. Jed

Before you is an etex bait I finished this afternoon. This was my third attempt with the slow drying stuff and I quite happy with the outcome this time. This glider bait has two coats of Etex, is seven inches long and three mean 3/0 hooks. Thank you Richoc and others for all the help! Jed

Corey, Hey thanks for posting your experience with the Etex. I do have a wheel turner for the Etex by the way. I think I just became spoiled using the Devcon, it's so easy to use. Also, I have never had a bait come undone as you have described but will admit that reports such as yours do concern me. I still have the stuff and haven't given up on it but am getting very close! lol. Jed

If there is a "next time" Terry just throw it away and start over. It will take you far less time to rebuild from scratch then it does to deal with that mess. I can have a lure body ready for paint in 20 minutes. If you are interested in knowing how various products effect Devcon go to Devcon.com and check out the "technical data sheets". RM

Just as an experiment the other day I took a Devcon covered bait and dropped it directly on the pavement in my garage. I dropped it again and again and finally after maybe 10 tries noticed a small chip near the nose of the bait. Took out the trusty Leatherman and tried to start peeling the stuff off...couldn't do it. I could get tiny pieces to splinter but never could get a large section to peel off. So long as the paint/stencil you have under the devcon has secured itself to the wood I think the Devcon will hold....just my experience. Jed

Hi Nathan, You may correct, but here again this would be another step that I would rather not have to take. I think the puddling could largely be avoided by allowing the product to thicken for 30 minutes or more. Devcon is considerably thicker and thus doesn't move about, seperate, and "puddle" like the Enviro does. Thanks for the idea. Jed

I tried to put together a fair test for the product Skeeter. There are guys on this board with a whole bunch of experience that like the stuff and I wanted to know why. I really would like to make Etex work but for me it proved quite problematic. So....after fooling with the Etex for two days I busted out the trusty tube of Devcon, breathed a sigh of relief, mixed it up in 20 seconds, brushed it on, put the bait on the dryer and walked away from it...perfect everytime. Jed

Great job! With time you will get better at keeping the stencils in place and glue off of things. Lots of fun! Jed

Chip, Was this signature done on top of a coat of Enviro? If I sign the bait prior to any Enviro I expect there won't be problems, it's when I put down one coat, paint, and then put on another. I am using a fine point permanent marker now, have never had problems with it before. jed

I have finished two baits now with the Etex and overall I moderately happy/unhappy with the results. As you read my comments please keep in mind that I have very little experience with this product and some of the problems I had could likely be avoided with experience. Observations: 1. Envirotex is reasonably priced, guessing that it is better than Devcon altho I have done the comparison. 2. Mixes easily, some odor and mild eye irritant. 3. Develops bubbles during mixing but does a better job of releasing them than Devcon once it is applied. 4. I compared the product clarity on the back and sides of a Devcon bait to the Envirotex Bait. I found the finish on the Envirotex to be more clear altho the difference is subtle. 5. Envirotex takes a full day (12 hours) for one coat to become dry enough to handle without leaving fingerprints. I sped up this process considerably with the use of a heat lamp, still an entire day was required for full cure. For comparison Devcon is dry enough to fully handle in about 6 hours...without additional heat. I might add that a member on this board explained to me that there are other methods for accelerating the drying process which I have not investigated. 6. Three coats are necessary to provide good coverage for musky baits. I found that two coats were enough with the Devcon. 7. It is not as hard when dry as Devcon, you can still dent the stuff with your fingernail but it's interesting in that the dents slowly heal themselves until completely gone. I have not done any stress tests to determine if this is good thing or not altho I suspect it would be. 8. I found you cannot add a signature to the bait as I have in the past. I generally coat the bait with the epoxy, paint, add my signature over the paint and finish with a final coating of epoxy. This process will not work with Envirotex. The second coat seems to react with the first causing the ink to blur. I tried getting around this by signing the bait on the paper stencil prior to using any Envirotex, the signature blurred again! For those interested I was using a fine tip permanent market and allowed the ink to dry for 8 hours before applying the E-tex. 9. Envirotex has a strong tendency to dimple when being applied. These can be removed if you return to the bait and brush them out an hour or so into the cure. I find this annoying as with Devcon I simply smooth things out and walk away from it. I expect this annoyance to be a result of the low viscosity of the product. 10. Envirotex has a low viscosity when first mixed making application tricky...like trying to keep a drop of water balanced on a piece of glass. This too can be avoided by waiting 30 minutes or so prior to applying the product, annother inconvenience. 11. An equal mix of the two parts of Envirotex is more critical than it is with Devcon. I bought two syringes just for this purpose. Still I had one batch of Envirotex that failed to cure on the bait. This as you can imagine was a huge mess requiring me to rub all the stuff off of the bait (which prior to this mess was an awesome looking lure) and start all over again. I have never had this happen once in two years of using Devcon. To summarize: I found the Envirotex fairly difficult to use. Perhaps the biggest advantage I see to envirotex is its longevity, baits up to a decade or older have been reported by members here to maintain their clarity. Longevity is something that is very important to me but may not be to others. Since I offer my baits for sale I very much want those purchasing them to still see a quality product 10 years from now. The biggest disadvantages I see are the slow cure time, the low viscosity, the sensitive mix ratio, its tendency to dimple, which I also suspect is related to the water-like texture, and the thin layer of protection it provides requring additional coats and time. Overall I would say if a person is doing a few baits then Devcon is much easier to use. If you are trying to finish large numbers of baits then it may be worth investing the time to understand exactly how best to use Envirotex. I cannot say that Envirotex will provide greater longevity and protection than Devcon as I have yet to have any of my Devcon baits fail or yellow in any way. I hope that future input from others on the TU Board will provide further insight in this regard. Jed

BB, Years ago I tried something similar with a shrimp pattern I was working on, used the exoskeleton (outer shell) to glue on the body and then finished over it...they did look very realistic but can't remember if I ever caught anything on them. I am not surprised that the action changed on the shad raps. I have had similar problems when trying to add tails to cranks. I am guessing too that you would likely find the skin would change color over time and or decompose giving you further problems. You may be able to compensate for this by putting the skin through a tanning process in which the moisture and all biological life is removed but why bother. My suggestion would be to find a picture of the "chubs" and photo finish it on the bait. In the end you will have something that looks as or more realistic and will last literally years if done correctly. What is photo finish? Do a search on this topic, Lincoya has a post that very accurately describes the process. As far as building a bait that runs I would suggest doing a search on the topic, there is literally a thousands posts on this site describing how this can be done. Chip has some wonderful tutorials so you might search on his name. Don't give up!! It's a blast, keep asking questions. Good luck. Jed

Richoc, I started another bait this afternoon and let the mix stand for at least 20 minutes before applying. This helped with the crater problem considerably but did not eliminate it. It is still far, far, worse than the problems I have ever experienced with Devcon. I don't have any paint on the bait at this point, zero! The only thing on the bait is wood and paper, both of which the product clearly says it is made to cover. The first bait received its second coat about 9 hours ago, it is still slightly tacky and is being held at 80 degrees. The other thing I have noted is that the surface of the baits are somewhat uneven, not bad, but uneven nonetheless. At this point I am not impressed with the Envirotex but will maintain an open mind. I would not go as far as to say I don't like it but it certainly is much more touchy than Devcon. 1. Mixing takes longer, must sit after mixing for up to 20 or 30 minutes (why?); 2. There are as many or more bubbles in the finish which must be taken out with a torch (which didn't work for me very well); 3. Long dry time, in the time one coat dries two of the Devcon will dry; Anyway, will keep trying to familiarize myself with the product but at this point the only thing that keeps me interested is potential for longevity that it may possess over Devcon. RM

Like the one on the bottom, very nice! Jed

Update: About an hour or so after placing the bait on the dryer I noticed that some of the craters had disappeared, perhaps 25% of them. The self-leving properties of the product helped some. The Enviro was now at about the consistency of maple syrup; I brushed it over again and smoothed out the craters. Two or three hours into the process and the bait looks to have a near flawless finish, whew! The only thing lost was the signature on the bottom of the bait. I really have no idea why the signature ran like I did as I know many others here sign their baits with no problem. I am using a fine point permanent marker, the same pen I have always used with no problems. The ink was allowed to dry for probably 5-10 minutes. I expect that many of the hassles I have experienced with the Enviro are a result of not being familiar with the product. The next bait I cover will try to let the Enviro set-up a bit before applying it, hoping this will reduce the craters and dripping. I have noted also that the coating is actually a bit thicker than I had first thought. Two coats on the bait looks to be pretty good, not sure if I will go for a third or not. jed

Day two: I woke up this morning to find the bait had totally cured, quite happy with that. I signed the bottom of the bait, mixed the Envirotex and began applying the second coat. Again I had a horrible time with it being so runny, dripping all over the place. For some reason too there are so many craters that I cannot get them covered....I have no idea why. I finally gave up trying to cover the craters (small bare spots) and put the bait on the wheel dryer. There is literally a hundred small craters on the back of the bait alone! To make matters worse, the stuff totally blurred out my signature, have no idea why, never experienced this with Devcon before. I am going to wait an hour or so for the stuff to cure some and then try to brush them out. I was happy with the Enviro an hour ago but now having some serious problems with the stuff. I fear this bait may be lost. RM

Haven't heard of that out west YET...we are usually a bit behind you guys...give it a few weeks. I have also never heard of self "check out"...well other than that quick check I do for ticks after a spring day afield, lol. Unreal what a person will do to "catch a buzz" isn't it? Jed

That's great Husky! When you mentioned the kid in the story the first thing I thought was "let him catch one", you were ahead of me on that one! One time years ago I was fishing for Chum salmon at night. This family of folks were standing near me, a dad, mom, young gal maybe 14 and a son a bit younger. Anyway, they couldn't catch a single fish with their bait outfits and I was hooking fish literally every single cast with a fly! The salmon were from 8-15 pounds and strong fighters. I hooked fish for three hours that night letting the young gal and man take turns fighting them, all of us had a blast! Congrats on the fishing and the lure! Jed

Since I have been razzin you guys about the Enviro I decided it was only fair for me to try it myself. I ordered a sample amount and just now applied it to a bait. Here are some of my initial thoughts. Background info: I am brushing the product on a 7 inch glider with a paper photo-finish. The bait has been primed with two coats of wood sealer. Findings: 1. The price of the enviro is very good 2. I found it nearly identical to mix as Devcon 3. I don't like the smell altho it's not unreasonable 4. Seemed to be similar amount of bubbles after mixing 5. It goes on very thin in comparison to Devcon, nearly as thin as water. This was something I very much disliked about FlexCoat. Without a doubt at least two and perhaps three coats will be necessary for my Musky Baits. I am not familiar enough with the product to know whether the low viscosity is a result of the hot weather we are experiencing or something that must be dealt with on a regular basis. 6. I noticed very few if any bubbles after applying the Enviro. However, the coating is so thin that I think it will be difficult for bubbles to become entrained...the coating is that thin. 7. I attempted to get the coat a bit thicker but in doing so noted that it dripped a few times while placing it on the dryer...not a big deal. 8. I developed some small craters here and there on the bait. I am familiar with these in using Devcon and this generally suggests that the coating is too thin. I corrected them with the brush and they reappeared. I decided instead to correct them once the bait was on the drying wheel...hope it worked. After 1 hour I noticed several craters had appeared again...able to brush them out as the product is just now starting to thicken. My garage is about 85 degrees and after 3.5 hours the bait has "tacked" up enough that I turned off the wheel. I am hoping the lure will be dry enough to accept the second coat in the morning, so far so good. RM

Alright Nathan, cool, thx. I want to try it. Jed

Interesting, so after being in the water it is sticky enough to hold on to the wood? I can see how it would grab plastic model but it seems it would have difficulty holding on wood. Thx. Jed

That's your best work yet Andrew, great job!! Jed

Coley, Your description is EXACTLY what I have been doing, to the tee. I have made several dozen baits in this way. The other day tho I decided to pull on the paper stencil once the glue had dried, bad idea,....it peeled off!!! Now the whole thing has me nervous as I see the clearcoat only being as strong as the bond between the stencil and wood....maybe I am just paranoid. Jerry, Nathan What is decal paper? I am assuming this stuff is already sticky, yes? Jed

Yea I do need to try it Nathan haven't done so yet, will see if I can find some. Thx. Jed

The answer to your question depends largely upon personal preference and the material you are working with. I make most of my lures from mahogany or poplar and prefer to use screw eyes. Others tho, Chip for example, like to make their own screw eyes from wire that is twisted and then epoxied into place. Finally some guys use a "through wire" design in which all of the hook hangers and tow-point are created from a single strand of wire that is sandwiched between two pieces of wood. If you are just beginning the business of bait-building I would recommend that you use screw-eyes, they are inexpensive and easy to use. Jed