Mattlures

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Tackle tour is probably the best thing that can happen to you. Take your time and select perfect baits to send them. If your baits have design flaws fix them or they will find them. If you are talking about a simple soft plastic bait than you have nothing to worry about as long as what you send them are clean and perfect. They will catch fish on them. One of the biggest benefits to TT is that they will not even do the report if your product is realy bad. Thats why most of their reports are possative. Instead of publicly slammeing a product they just dont publish a report. They send back their opinions on why it was bad. I have talked to Cal on the phone before and he is a geniune good guy. he told me they get a lot of junk sent to them that doesnt make it to review. If they contacted you then they already like your stuff. GET ON IT!!!

It alredy is my own brand. Tom is my partner.

I know whats in it but I aint tellin. There are several ingrediants to Mend-it. Mek is in it but only a little bit. The stuff works great!

ove glove Its as if it were made for pouring plastics.

colors can not be protected and I dont think they can be original. They can not be owned. Only the names of colors can be.

I know a manufacture who is looking for a new sourse for painting hard baits. Not looking for smalltime custome type work. He is looking to have a lot of baits painted 100's-1000's a month. His source raised the price to almost $2 a bait so he is looking for other options. No its not me, I will paint my own but if any of you think your interested, just send me a PM

JSC I liked your post. Thank you for the history lesson, seriously.

CarolinaMike you just made my whole point. The kettle calling the pot black. This post originated from guys complaing about a compnay defending its property. A "little guy" was served a letter for steeling zooms property and guys started bashing Zoom! Now you bring up Castaic. Well the bait you described is the Castaic soft Platinum. All of my current baits (except my newest ones) were out way before the Plats. There is almost no similarities in the two baits. NOBODY would ever mystake one for the other. Neither Jason nor I copied each other when designing those baits. Your example was a weak one. However ther are other Castaic baits that are a little more similar than those. Again I carved my own design. Not trying to copy castaic or storm or any other. I was doing my very best to copy nature. I try to make my baits as lifelike as posible. Never have I sought to make a bait similar to thiers. I think when Storm had to pay Jason they may have learned to be a little more careful. There sunfish series does not infring on any protection that I have. I would have no case. Mike I never intended to upset you. I wish you wouldnt be but I wont kiss butt and change my stance. Making a beaver and selling it is moraly and ethicaly wrong. Of couse this is a matter of opinion and I stand behind mine. I dont beleive the flat side is enough change to call the bait anything but a copy. Colors and plastic formulas are extremly minor. If RI would have aplied for a design patent and got one and wanted to sue people for making the flatsided beavers, it is my opinion they would have a verrrrrry strong case. I do not know what form of protection they have but its not very strong. they waited too long. How about this, when a store askes you to make a copy why not try and sell them one of your original designs? It is soo much more rewarding when its your bait and you catch fish on it or make a little money off of it. When guys do this with the Senko and Beaver copies, there not using "Thier" baits. Its not thier designs. Its RI or GY designs. To all of you I hope you take this for what it is. My opinion. You have yours and I have mine. It apears for the most part we will have to agree to disagree.

jmic26 Storm copied me. My original bluegill were out 2 1/2 years before any of there sunfish type swimbaits were out. There baits are diferent then mine and greatly inferior. Storm also ripped off Castaic but Jason had a patent on that particular design. Guess what, Storm gambled and thought Castaic couldnt do anything about it. Well they were wrong and lost their A$$es in court. Thats one of those lawsuits you never heard about. Senkosam this time your argument is much better. In your opinion it is unethical, illegal, and wrong to make copies for your own use. Technicaly you are wrong if the bait is not protected like a Senko then it is not illegal. Moraly and ethicaly is up for debate. I dont believe when I make a copy for my own personal use than I have done something wrong. You bring up this point only to dispute my position not because you actualy believe that. Just for the record I havent made or fished any of these in a LOOOONG time but thats almost irelevant. Here are my thoughts on the subject. I bought a couple molds from Dewl and off of ebay. I did this because I have no desire to improve apon them and I dont fish them enough to warrent my time in designing a better bait. Yes I am also being a little lazy, I simply dont have the time to redesign every single bait I use. In my mind I dont beleive I am doing anything wrong untill I sell these baits whitch I wont .When I buy baits from a store I get the originals. The plastic worm is one of the grayest areas to debate. I dont know what is black and white. There are so many styles and I am sure many of the original designeres are dead .My cryteria for steeling. ripping off, etc is this. When sombody tries to copy a bait and sell it they are steeling. When they use a similar name on a similar product for product assosiation they are steeling. I guess it comes down to intent. When everybody is trying to figure out how to make a Basstrix so they can make them and sell them they are steeling from Bruce. Take my minnow for example, it is a completly diferent bait. It looks nothing like a Basstrix. It is made completly diferent than one also but it is a competing product. I could argue that it is an improvemnet but nobody could reasonably argue that I copied them. Moral and ethical are debateable. You mention the hard head baits as if you invented them. I have been doing that for the last 15 years. To me it was a no brainer, no big deal and nothing to even consider protecting. Of course it was just a hobby then. Thats a whole other issue. Who really came up with the idea? I'll give you a couple....You can also use a small amount of lint from your dryer to make your worms stronger. Put the lint in where the hook penetrates the worm or mix it thoughout. You can put a couple strands of thread in you Senko molds legth wise and trim them off the ends and you will greatly increase the life of them when wacky rigged. You can also cut stripps of drywall mesh and lay the mesh accross the middle of your molds so the mesh is only in the center, again greatly increasing the life of the Senkos when wacky rigged. The Senkos can be made softer than usual creating more wiggle because the mesh will make them last longer. Should I patent those ideas? NA you all can have them. They are neat and they do work but making and selling worms is not my thing.

Smirkplug obviously your "friend" had issues. So far I think everybody has handled this very touchy subject suprisingly well. I hope I didnt affend anybody because I was not trying to attack anybody. I am just trying to get some of you to see the other side and other opinions. We all have our own opinions on what wrong and right. Some guys dont care and all is fair game in buisiness. Money is the only thing that drives them.

Swampbaits- There are many things that can be protected and several ways to protect them. It does not have to be the entire package as a whole. I see so much bad info posted on the net about patents ist scary. Most of the stuff you read on here is just plain wrong. Rockhopper was the one guy on hear that knew his stuff. If my lawyer doesnt think he can win we wont sue. Go visit a patent lawyer, you might be suprised. 152 and Patrick If you feel its wrong to make them for your own use then dont make them. You guys have a valid argument. I disagree because when I make something for my self I am not taking money away from the original designer. Why? because I would not have bought the bait. If it was worth it I would have just made my own version but it wasnt worth the efffort. I have a couple Senko molds(got them cheap on ebay). I have poured a bunch of Senko copies but I never use them. I dont like Senkos. Honestly I dont even know why I made them to begin with. I have way too much tackle that I never use. You have to draw a line somewhere. My line is drawn when it comes to selling the copies. That is my opinion. Your lines might be drawn for making the copies for any reason or you may have no lines at all . I dont beleive that is your positions though. I think you bring that up just to dispute my position. If you realy feel that is wrong then I aplaud you but that is not the case. I havent made copies for personal use in a long time, probably a couple of years. AGAIN I SAY THIS. WHEN THE SHOE IS ON THE OTHER FOOT YOU WILL HAVE A NEW PERSPECTIVE!!!!!! I personaly dont want any of my baits to blow up. It only encourages the copies. If one of you guys makes the next big thing and everybody rushes to rip you off you will no longer disagree with me. Imagine being RI and you put out a new creature bait. You have no idea that it will be a huge success. It is not feesable to patent every sing bait you come out with and you dont know if it will be a hit or not. You put in a ton of your time and money to design and promote your beaver. Something happens and then everybody wants them. This is good right? Only for a little while because now you got the attention of all the knock off guys. Big companies the "little guys" are now reaping the benifits of your hard work. Justify it how ever you need to make it ok in your own mind but if it was your bait that everybody was ripping off you would be fighting mad!

HPW you took my quote out of context. There is absolutly nothing wrong with buying and using a mold from Delw or Bob. I have molds from both and I have made baits from them. I have even caught fish on them. I was arguing the point from the earlier post that was claiming because they bought the molds from Bob or Dewl that it is perfectly ok to copy. There is a big diference between legal and ethical/moral. IMO it is unethical to sell a Senko copy, however it is completly legal to do so. many of you could argue the point that because its legal then its also ethical and there is nothing wrong with it. I disagree but it is a matter of opinion. However its the same guys that say the companies who send a letter to protect their property are wrong for doing so. Soo when you say its fair game because there is no patent what about when there is one. Or a copyright or trade mark? As for Zoom I only defend them in this one particular case. They may have ripped of many other companies but I dont believe that gives sombody the right to rip them off unless Zoom ripped off one of your baits. The little hand pour guys may not be a threat as one operation but when you consider how many there are as a whole then they become a big threat. If Zoom was to actualy sue a smaller compnay over this and win every single small company would be scared and stop if they recieved a letter, so it would definatly be worth it for them. If they have something protected then they have every right to defend it, Ethicaly, Moraly and Legaly. Also many of you seem to take the threat of a lawsuit too lightly. Just because you havent heard of any big companies following through with thier suits doesnt mean they dont. I hear about the lawsuits all the time. Many are settled out of court and many of the smaller companies just go bankrupt. My point is they DO SUE!!!! If you get a letter then there is a darn good chance you have done something wrong and you should heed their warning. I personaly have some of my designs protected. I will not disclose witch or how but I will defend if sombody ripps me off. I have an attorney that will take my cases on percentage. I pay him nothing. He gets a big percentage if we win but its worth it. This arangment is not unusual and I know many smaller companies do this. So if any of you think your not worth going after, I wouldnt take the risk. Now back to copying and steeling and ripping off. Like I said befor there is a ton of gray area. When I use these terms I am referring to trying to make sombody elses bait. If you carve your own then its yours unless your trying to carve a trickworm. If you buy a mold that looks just like a trick worm and you sell them as a slick,flick or tricky worm than you know what you are doing. You know you are wrong. I do not have all the answers to the problems. I have a concious. I know when I make a bait its mine. I know if I made a beaver and sold it, it would be wrong. If I wanted to do that I would make my own design. Right now the Basstrix is the hot bait, I have met Bruce Porter. He is a very likable guy. If you met him you might feel diferent about the Basstrix copies. It might not stop you but I am pretty sure you would be trying to find ways to justify it to yourself. BTW when I say "you" I am directing this to whom ever is debating this issue with me, not anybody in particular. Can you tell I failed at grammar and spelling

The words steeling, thief, thieves, rip offs. shouldnt bother anybody unless they apply. If a store wanted me to make a Castaic type bait I would simply say no, or I would make my own version. By my own version I mean I would make my own master, my own molds and my own internal weighting system. I have several competitors and we have similar designs however we all have our own style and look to them. If I designed a trout that looked too much like a Hudd or a Rago I would change it. My baits look like my baits. The biggest diference is when I make a bait, I am not trying to make another bait. I am making MY bait. There are many opinions and a lot of gray area on this whole subject. I state my opinion on what is right and wrong. I honestly beleive that deep down most if not all of you know I am right. IMO when a bait is purposly made to look like another bait, then the guy is steeling. When a bait looks like another bait and it is named similar or with a tricky ryhming name it is trying to be assosiated with the original. It is a rip off. If a beaver has diferent colors and a flat side its still a rip off. If the beaver had a good strong defendable patent and you actualy went to court over it and tried to tell the judge that your bait is diferent because its flat on one side, YOU WOULD LOOSE. Again there is a ton of gray area that could be argued either way. I am not talking about those cases. We all know that the 1000's of sticks are ripping off GY PERIOD. We all know that the beaver bait are ripping off RI and we all know that the chatterbait copies were ripping of Rad or who ever first made them. The issue I have is when a company tries to do this. This whole thread started because Zoom was protecting one of its properties and guys started bashing Zoom. I know this is a very personal subject. It has and will be a very heated debate. To each thier own. I am just staing my opinion. When I started making baits I copied Fish traps. I did this for about 2 years then I made my own. It was much more satisfying. When I did this my intention was not to make a slight modification. I just wanted to make my own bait. Chris about the Senko and its copies. I beleive if given a choice for the same qauntity at the same price and colors and being availble almost nobody would buy a copy over the original. I am sure somehow I am a hypocryte. I do my best not to be but I make mystakes too. It just makes me mad when I see people bashing a company for defending its self. It always comes up when sombody gets a letter from an atorny. Well geuss what, there is a reason they got that letter! I see guys on here like Jim from ghost baits(I only mention him because he is arguably the best hand pourer on the site) and I am disapointed. Why, because his baits are beautiful. His pours are perfect and his craftmenship is top of the line. He could pour with anybody and he could most certainly out pour me. I think he has more than enough talent to make a name for himself if he made some good orginal designs. I beleive he is selling himself short by making all the popular copies. It seems to have become such common place that most dont even try to designing their own anymore. I gaurantee that if and when one of you put in all the hard work to make a bait succesful and sombody copies you, you will be mad. Thats when you will understand my point of view. I remember when sombody on this site used a picture for an ebay auction without permision and everybody jumped down the guys throat buy nobody seemed to care that the auction itself was for a beaver rip off!!!!!!!!!!! I know my perfect world where nobody ripps anybody off is not and will not ever be a reality. I know the game and how its played. I just wont sugar coat it. BTW these opinions are generaly speaking. They arent realy directed at any particular person. I do not dislike any of you for making your copies. I think its wrong but I aint perfect and I do plenty of thing wrong to. Like I said earlyer I am sure somehow I, just like every other person am also a hypocryte. I have many friends in the industry that rip each other off all the time. They are still my friends because I understand the nature of the buisiness. I dont agree with them but i still like them. If they rip me off they are no longer my friends.

I am in the minority so I will likely get dogpiled but thats ok. I am not chastising, I am encouraging people to do what is right. ZOOM absolutly did something wrong when they copied the Senko. Maybe not leagaly but moraly. If GY had a patent them it would be leagaly wrong to. Not having the desing pateted doent make it right to copy it just meanst you wont get sued over it. Yes baits evolve but I would estimate that 98% of the copies are sugnificantly inferior. The original Senko is still the best. Again just because a bait isnt protected that doesnt make it right to steel it. That is why the whole patent process was started. To keep people from steeling intulectual property. However Patents are not always feesable. I know the reality of the situation. If its not protected it will get ripped off if there is a profit in it. That is the reality. It aint right but thats how it is. I choose to not copy.

Senksam , you and I have gone about this issue before. It is very evident that morarls and ethics mean nothing to you. All is fair in buisness right? Just because sombody wont get prosacuted or sued over ripping sombody else off doenst make it OK. There thieves, and they only get away with it because its too much trouble to go after them. In many states its not breaking a law if you cheat on your wife. does that make it ok? If the guy in front of you drops a $20 you wouldnt be breaking a law by keeping it and not saying anything. Obviously you would run over and pick it up and shove it in your pocket before the guy noticed. I wouldnt. I would give back to him since its his. Every one of your arguments on this subject is all about money and the bottom line. "its ok because the retailer would just buy sombody elses copy, so I should sell them mine and save them the trouble" There are many crooks in this industry. MANY! but there are aslo still some honest decent guys out there trying to make a living with thier own hard work. Steeling is not ok even if you dont get caught. I also love when guys say every lure is a knock off of something old or there is nothing new left. That has to be the most pathetic excuse to be lazy and not use your own thought or ideas. There are plent of new designs and ideas out there you just have to quit trying to copy other designs and work on your own. Do you honestly think 50 years from now there wont be anything new? well if it werent for guys who actualy design there own things than that would be true. Thank God thats not the case. You mentioned Delw and Bobs, soo becuase you can buy a mold that makes it ok? YOUR STILL STEELING! Yes I have some of thier molds too, they are very nice. I make some baits out of them but I would never sell them. All my baits that I produce are made from molds that I personaly made. I understand why guys copy baits. Its fun and easy and can save you some money. Selling them is wrong. Just because thier are a lot of other guys doing it doesnt justify it. Here is a thought for all of you with own bait buisiness. There are thousands upon thousands of guys just like you, making the same baits. copys of copys of copys that are the hot biats of the month. How many of you beleive you cna have a succesful buisiness and make a good living doing this? Verry few succeed at this and usualy they need massproduction capabilities to pull it off. This is very dificult to do for the "little guy" On the contrary, design your own bait, if the design is good enough and you do your homework and then YOU are the creator and YOU are the one who is making the money and You will establish yourself in the industy. You will most likely be copied but you will still be the original. If Basstrix puts out another design it will be an instant succes. If one of the knock off co put something out nobody will care. I am expect to be bashed because I am sure I have struck a nerve but thats ok. I still have no har feelings towards anyof you.

No need to apologize, No offence taken. In all honesty it saddens me when I see a board full of tallented lure makers who do nothing more than to copy other peoples baits. To make them for your own use is one thing. I do that to, to save a buck but I wouldnt sell them. To me its just not right and I would feel that a failed as a bait maker. Many guys like to justify it buy saying company x makes millions so why not get my litte piece? Because its not right thats why. Many of you cant relate because you have not been lucky enough to have one of your own designs take off. Believe me if you guys do and the "little guys" start ripping you off it will quickly change your perspective. escpecialy if you put in all the legwork and money to get your bait to become a success. I see soo much talent on here I just think guys could do better. I also understand I will be unliked for posting the truth, I cant help it, I just have to call it like I see it. The way the thread was going did get under my skin a little, I mean the company who is the victim was being made out to be a big mean bully for defending itself. I wish all of you luck with your buisinesses. I will help any of you if I can as long your selling your own designs.

Nope dont need a hug. I just think its pathetic to justify steeling because its a big company. Stick up for the little guy even though the little guy is the one who is infringing? If the name is trademarked and sombody else trys to sell a similar prodcut by using a similar name they are infringing. They are wrong and Zoom has ever right to sue if they want to. If they do sue I would be routing for the "big guy". If the little guy is smart he would avoid this by changing the name. I call it how it is. Go ahead make me out to be the bad guy for calling a spaide a spaide

Let me get this straight. Zoom designes a worm. They give the worm a name and Market the worm. The spend thier money promoting this worm and they have trademarked the name. Now the "little guys" want to make money off thier hard work by making a similar product and using a similar name ? Basicaly they are leaching off of Zoom and somehow ZOOM IS THE BAD GUY? Wrong is wrong, it doesnt matter if their a big corparation. They have a right to protect what is thiers. I have a novel idea, how about make your own version of a bait and give it its own name without trying to rip off another company?

You need to devolope a system. 5000 baits from one piece molds wouldnt be very hard to do. Make about 50 molds and do 10 runs in a day. That would probably take 6-8hrs for 1 person. That would take you 10 working days to complete the order. It would be faster with another person or more molds. GET TO WORK!

Bruce Porter has been around forever! I remember his big swimbaits from 15 years ago. Thats when I first heard of Basstrix. I dont know how long before then he has been doing it. I have only talked to him once. He is a good guy and I am glad he is getting the recognition that he deserves. Just becuase the nation now knows who he is doesnt mean he was a tiny little buisiness before they blew up. His baits hade a big following. Its just been the last few years that the nation is discovering swimbaits that we have been fishing for the last 20 years. Its not that they didnt work outside of CA, its that guys didnt know how to use them and info on how to use them was very dificult to get. I had to learn the hard way. I got a few tips but even then I rely didnt know what I was doing.

He envented a tube with a paddletail. He also was the first to use his process inwhich the bait is dipped after it has been painted. He has been doing this for at least 15 years and probably much longer. He was the originator of this process.

Ok Jim i'll give an idea or two. If you went with a rod though the nose of your worm , after you pulled out the rod you could seal the nose by dipping in a harder plastisol. you would create you airpocket and have a hard head for longer lasting baits. #2 you could create the airpocket by a slit in the belly that is bigger on the top of the slit creating a pocket when the plastic rolls down the sides of the slit peice. You could then seal it with Mend-it! soft plastic welder glue stuff and you would have a clean seam and your air pocket succesfuly sealed it.

Jim I cant say you are wrong because you are not. BUT......LONGHORN IS AND NOW I AM GOING TO YELL AT HIM!!!!!!!! I have caught several 1.5 lb bass on full bodied 8inch trout baits. the biggest misconception is that the waters your(not you specificaly)dont have big enough bass for swimbaits to be efective. First off that is just plain wrong as a 3 lber has no problem eating a swimbait, especialy smaller baits. 2nd you are talking about basstrix or any other swimtube. Those things are tiny. Even a 6inch bait is small. They are thin and lean and a 1/2 could,would, and will eat them easily!!!!!! My advise to anybody is to get over the size issue, especialy on small swimbaits. Beleive me those little swimbaits look little to the bass too. You may think they look big but they dont. As far as these little tube baits go. they are definatley not a big fish bait, sure they catch a few but so does a dropshot worm. When kennedy won that tournament, all his big fish came off Huddlestons not the little basstrix. he used the basstrix to get a limmit the Hudd was the big fish catcher. Now dont get upset I wasnt realy yelling just trying to help anybody get over thier fear of giant 5inch swimbaits:)

I have added color and powders before and after heating and to me it makes no diference unless its those fluorescent colors that you HAVE to mix cold. Mixing powders is heated plastic might be a little easyer though but I havent seen a diference in the end results