Lure--Prof

All commercial lures are made to an absolute price point. In other words, no matter how durable or even how productive a lure can be, it is subject to compromise to meet a pre-determined market-viable price. Now imagine how great your lures could be if your bottom line was to just build as good a lure as you could possibly build, with its durability and effectiveness not compromised by having to meet a particular price point? Welcome to the world of custom lures! I'm NOT saying that time and money are not considerations to custom tackle makers. What I am saying, is that our priorities are self determined. And that means everything to me, and a lot of other custom builders, whether you are talking cars, guitars, or fishing equipment!

add me to that list!

Jim, Your painting and your results appear to mirror mine. I continue to fish the lures I've cleared with DN2, and I remain very impressed! Dean

If you've built enough lures, all types for enough years out of enough materials, the specifics of this discussion become quite intuitive. While I build numbers of certain lures, I'm also constantly building "one-off" baits. And while I never calculate anything on paper, and never have, I'm very much using the parameters being discussed here. When I decide to build a new design, I build a lure, complete with topcoat, and take it to the water to evaluate its total performance according to my particular expectations of its performance. For example, a particularly important parameter for my lures is their running attitude combined with hook placement, which is a primary factor in how well the lure will come through woody and rocky cover; which equals how efficient the lure will fish for me. A working knowledge of this discussion,whether "guesstimated", or digitally calculated, is definitely an advantage in achieving the desired results for your lures.

I think the new stuff is harder than the old formula. I've been fishing 3 cranks with 3 non-T'd sticky-sharp trebles, and these baits do not have a mark on them, no tooth scratches or rock or treble rash whatsoever. I've been brushing it on but I think application method makes little difference, as once the bait is covered, the rest will drip off. I'm using 3 coats. Gloss greatly improves after the second coat. I've applied each coat per Dick's recommendation of a minimum of 5 hours apart, and after drying to touch on my turner, I'm hanging the baits on a rack about 30 inches from a ceiling heat duct. The heat has been running quite a bit at night here recently, and has obviously greatly accelerated the curing of the new formula, as after 2 nights the 3rd top coat was very hard. I am thus far very very impressed with this coating. At this point, I don't know why anyone would bother with any other topcoat. I don't see how it could be more user-friendly. The only thing it doesn't do very well is brush onto foil, so foil finishes still need an intermediate coat, upon which I'll apply DN after a scuff and soap scrub, if coating over epoxy. I mailed my full evaluation to Dick today, and I expect he'll be receiving them all soon, as we've needed this amount of time to evaluate the coating under some real world parameters (cast, cast, cast, for hours on end). Dean

Tim, The toughness is what is impressing me, as ease of use means little to me without that! And it is by far the most user-friendly stuff I've ever seen. It dries very very hard, but I've see no tendency for it to scratch or crack. Dick may have broken the code with this formulation! I wouldn't think it would require very much dilution for spraying; about what ratio did you use? Dean

From what I've read thus far, KBS appears to have about all of the characteristics of the old DN formulation, which seem to be common to all one-part moisture-cure urethanes. RTU Createx Airbrush Colors must be thoroughly heat-cured before applying. I always brushed DN because it was fast, and I could control the amount of product on the lure, as opposed to dipping. Too heavy a coat, and you're apt to get bubble problems unless the product is kept nice and fresh and you allow excess to drip off. That is why dipping and then turning causes bubble problems with KBS: excess product is not allowed to drip off and the surface dries first. Keep the coating thin, and this won't happen; you'll be able to turn the lures then. All of this really has been addressed in DN discussions. David Sullivan recently finished an entire pint of old-formula DN, using the tap-the-can-with-a-sheet-metal-screw method. Afterwards he opened the can and found, somewhat to his amazement...NOTHING. No deposits of cured DN whatsoever, nothing but an empty, shiny can. I'm currently testing the new DN formulation which is not a moisture cure urethane, but an air-dried topcoat that can easily be applied by brush or dipping, thinned with water for spraying, and has no offensive odor. I've been fishing lures topcoated with this stuff, and though these baits haven't had time to fully cure, I am amazed at the hardness, clarity, ease of storage and application, and the durability they've shown thus far. From what I'm seeing, the new DN is the future of topcoats. I've encountered no negatives YET, nor have I spoken with anyone else, including Dick concerning any other testing results, so I'm adding the cautionary note here, while further testing is being carried out. So far though, I'm very impressed! Sorry for going slightly off-topic here. Dean

I've been spit-polishing all of mine. It is a rather involved technique that most people will want to try to shortcut, but hey, there are no shortcuts when it comes to the best baits!!! D.

Thanks Dave for initiating this discussion. I've been using a 1 rpm dryer, lures placed about 10 inches from rotational axis, since slightly after the invention of the rotisserie. I've dried many lures on it without a problem, but 1 rpm is often criticized as being too slow if one uses too much epoxy. I do get some argument from time to time, but I stand by my logic of not using excessive amounts of epoxy, versus rebuilding my wheel with a higher rpm motor.

First of all, denatured alcohol is a solvent and has different characteristics, and different reactions than isopropyl, or rubbing, alcohol. About the only thing I use denatured for is for thinning epoxy. Isopropyl is much better for cleaning. I normally coat foil with epoxy. After it cures, I sand it or scuff it very lightly to remove the gloss. Then I take it to the kitchen sink and scrub it with Dawn dishwashing soap and a toothbrush. Dry it with a lint-free cloth that wasn't dried in a dryer with fabric softener sheets. Don't use conventional paper towels which contain oil. You can use those oil-free paper towels made for window cleaning. The whole point of this cleaning is to remove any oils from the lure which might interfere with the bonding of paint and DN on the epoxy. All of this information was learned at the University of Hard Knocks, and if you follow it you will have no problem bonding DN to epoxy. DN protects better against hook rash than epoxy. Ultra sharp hooks may roughen DN slightly, particular if the lure is used in the first 3 weeks after application. For lures which are trolled, your only perfect defense against hook rash is to Tee your hooks.

Just to be clear for anyone who may be inexperienced with Dicknite's topcoat: Dipping Dicknite's, especially after it has thickened a bit from previous dippings, will yield a thicker coat that is thick enough to suffice for a single coating. A coat this thick will also cure differently than a a thinner coating of DN. For those of us who apply DN with a brush, or spray, the individual coats are thinner and can be recoated much quicker. I generally wait 12 to 24 hours before recoating, but I have recoated in as little as 2 hours, and have done 4 coats in a day when in a hurry on an individual bait for my own use with no problems. These are thin coats applied with a 1/4 inch hair brush, and I wait at least 2 days before fishing them. The will appear to be fully cured at this point, although those of us familiar with DN know that 100% curing will happen in about 25 days. I always fish mine much quicker than this, and after a couple days on the lake, especially this time of year, they're over 90%, which is a lot of protection. There is no right or wrong way here, but only what works for each builder, but a thin coat of DN is ready for recoating in a few hours.

I like hunting lures, as do many experienced fishermen. Dave, to add to what you said about instinct, predator fish like bass also learn through conditioning, which is pretty obvious to anglers who fish highly pressured water. Of course which actions works best is a large can of worms, having to do with many factors such as seasonal behavior patterns, primary forage at any time, and water temperature and clarity which can determine how a predator like a largemouth bass tracks his prey, which can be any combination of eyesight and lateral line stimulus. An erratic lure action as produced through the rod tip is often a trigger in clear water and less so in murky water where a more normally swimming "unsuspecting" prey which can be easily tracked with the lateral line may be the best trigger. Fishing water which is normally clear, and fishing water which is normally murky, are very often two different things. As far as Rick Clunn's cranking lesson goes, one has to remember that "burning" a crankbait is much different in 2010 than it was in the 1970's, when there was not a baitcasting reel on the market which would retrieve a lure as fast as a modern "slow" or "power" retrieve cranking reels do now, much less compared to the "high speed" reels of today. Hunting is mostly about weight distribution in reference to centerline. Weight distribution is most easily manipulated with ballast in lightweight wood crankbaits that have a bit of belly to them, or area below centerline and a normal corresponding area above. Hunting action in most mass produced lures is a "happy accident" normally caused by some deviation from specifacation; while hunting action by a good custom luremaker is done by adhering to the specifications he knows will cause the action to repeat in all his lures, as Dave and Blackjack and others have learned. Yes, repeating hunting action can be designed into the lure. If a custom lure builder misses his spec. mark slightly, then the lure may blow out, or have a more normal single wiggling action. Hunting action is not at all exclusive to shallow running square-billed lures. It wasn't very long ago that some anglers thought it was the brass wire that caused this action in certain baits. For anyone who still thinks so, it is not, but it is a good example of convoluted logic.

Ha, that was my first thought.! You can add Parma to that, as it is manufactured by Createx, it has the same drying & heat-setting characteristics. If you stick with a single manufacturer, and the same paint line, you'll automatically eliminate compatibility issues. I spray all pearls, flourescents, opaques, transparents, Parma Faschanges, and Fasflips, with an Iwata Eclipse HP-BS and nearly never dilute any paints. I shake thoroughly before use, and I use a patch of pantyhose between the bottletop and the cap. Because of the needle size of the Eclipse HP-BS, its gravity feed, and the in-cap paint filter, I never clog.

Mark, you seem very much to be comparing the SC Acrylic-thanes to a standard of Devcon 2-Ton epoxy. To me that's like saying that because your current Chevy is better quality than your last Chrysler, that makes it the world's best production automobile. I know that you know I use Dicknite's topcoat, which doesn't have the issues of cracking, delamination, pulling away from sharp edges. It coats uniformly, evenly, the first coat bonds with the paint, and subsequent coats chemically bond with the previous coat. It will waterproof a jointed lure, and the lure will remain that way. If voided with a sharp object, nothing drastic is going to happen to a balsa bait that can't be fixed at the next opportunity by drying and patching with a bit of Sally Hansen's "Hard As Nails", etc, buth there is no "retirement" or extensive downtime for repairs.. There is a world of clearcoats out there between Devcon 2-Ton, and water-based polys (from better epoxy formulas, to many automotive and industrial clearcoats) that are used every day by very productive luremakers that are far more versatile and much more generally protective, which won't be taken down by slapping the bait against a stump, or by leaving it on the carpet of a damp rod locker overnight. David and I, as well as several others we know, find Dicknite's Topcoat much faster and more user-friendly than Devcon, and better in every aspect of performance than epoxies for clearcoating. I know my wood lures get fished very hard and hold up, and that clearcoating is a quick and enjoyable part of the luremaking process for me. I understand that you are more casual about your clearcoat because you use waterproof pvc. That is your choice. But I grew up fishing lures in heavy cover or casting to shale bluffs on windy days and watching my best baits slowly and sometimes very quickly disintegrate before my eyes, and it is a mark for me to build no-fail lures that are the best I can build without compromising, within very reasonable parameters. Dean

Good points about the letting the Createx air-drying a bit before the heat-setting, and I think Bob is onto to the crux of your problem too, talking about the thickness of the DN and skimming over without drying beneath, a problem that probably won't surface when dipping into fresh and very thin DN, but happens more as the DN thickens a bit with age. After DN has begun to cure and thicken a bit in your container it flashes many times faster than it does when fresh, compounding your problems. David Sullivan and I often discuss topics that recur on TU and this is one of them: we simply wonder why more people don't brush on DN, as it brushes on so easily, (so much faster than epoxy, that it is really a different technique), while allowing us to control the amount we use on the bait, which dipping does not. There are those who are happy dipping it, and I say more power to them; the same with those who spray it and have no problems, or who have learned techniques to avoid any problems. If you dip DN, then you are accepting that the thickness of each coat is dictated by the thickness of the product in your dipping jar. By brushing DN, you can control the amount of clearcoat you apply and exactly where it goes. But it is going to be very difficult to avoid the wrinkling problem without changing your application method, or, taking steps to keep your DN in much fresher condition. While plastic rattlebaits may be a bit more difficult to heatset and then clear with DN, I've done enough of them to expect no problems when I do.

to reiterate what Whittler said; Water based Poly + fishing lures = waste of time and money. This topic surfaces every few months, and has for several years. The product name might change (Polycrylic, etc), but the fishing performance never does. After applying it as a clearcoat, it looks as though it would work. If you are going to fish with it, it won't. There are a lot of products that will work to some extent to protect your lure and its paint. This is not one of them.

No, you da man! Thanks David, my Dad said, "Everybody is good for something, you just have to find out what it is". Mixing epoxy may be my thing, unfortunately...oh well, it beats a blank! Dean

As I use epoxy primarily as a seal coat, the hairdryer is a no go, as heating epoxy on bare balsa will cause a literal flood of bubbles to erupt into the epoxy.

Before applying Dicknite's on top of epoxy, scuff the epoxy coat, and then wash it with soap and water. Keep the epoxy surface free of contaminating fingerprints, or common paper towels, usless they are the oil-free kind made for window cleaning; and if you use a rag to dry it, make sure it wasn't dried with dryer sheets! Fine sandpaper or a Scotchbrite Pad will do for the scuffing, and I like Dawn dishwashing soap and a toothbrush for prepping the epoxy (I do the same thing before painting over epoxy). It only takes a minute and will save you grief later on.

By far the easiest way is to invite David Sullivan to your house and let him do it , but if he is fishing Mexico and can't be reached, here's how to do it with most epoxies you'll use for coating. NOTE: Hotter epoxies which begin center-curing when puddled, such as most fast cures, are best mixed on a level surface. Devcon 2-ton, Bob Smith (bsi, inc.) Finish Cure, Envirotex Lite, and rod finishes, such as Flex Coat, Pacific Bay, and other finish-types all respond well to this method. Mix at a room temperature of right at 72 degrees for consistant results. I use the concave surface of an aerosol can bottom, which I place in a widemouth jar for stability, as my mixing container. Wipe it with a bit of rubbing alcohol to clean it. Because I use my cans for months at a time, I actually polish mine with some fine sandpaper first; it sure doesn't hurt. For my mixer, I fashion a piece of stainless wire into a small circle, thickening the top third of it with some loose wraps in order to make a nice gripping surface for my fingers. Having the wire formed in a circle is like having a wisk or a squeegee that conforms to a portion of the container bottom, leaving no epoxy unmixed. Let me say here that if you're only mixing 4 drops this method may not work. After measuring the two components precisely, ease your mixing tool along the bottom into the puddle slowly (at first) and begin to stir, while maintaining bottom contact with your wire until you finish stirring. As you stir, you'll naturally begin spreading it out, but doing so from the bottom up, because you're not lifting the wire from the bottom and enfolding air in the process, won't introduce a bunch of bubbles. As you do this, you can stir faster and faster. When I mix E-tex, I literally whip it very quickly (per instructions) maintaining contact always until your epoxy is thoroughly mixed. The more you do this, the better you'll get. HINT: Use a straw to "breathe out" any bubbles you may have created. If the moon phase is correct, etc, there may actually be no bubbles at all. I normally get none or very close to that as David S.(captsully18) has witnessed! Big Clean-up Hint: As soon as I'm finished and ready to clean, I pour some rubbing, (isopropyl), alcohol into my can bottom. As I scrape out any remains with a rounded circuit board lure lip, the scraped epoxy will stick to itself and accumulate on the lip, which can then be wiped off with an alcohol soaked paper towel. Use a paper towel and some more alcohol to clean any remaining epoxy residue from the can bottom. All this takes much longer to describe than actually do, and with a bit of practice you'll find that little cups and tongue depressors were not nearly as effective, and, much more expensive and wasteful.

Pete, I have been curious about these since I saw them in a Woodcraft catalog: Next time I'm at a Woodcraft store, which should be soon, I'm bringing one home. They look comfy and they say it will work with a beard, which appeals to me a lot. If I'm not mistaken they're about the same price here. I want to try one on in the store after I buy it, just to make sure I'm not getting the wrong size. I don't know, but I doubt that they'd be too happy about a refund or exchange via mail order . If you can wait about a month I'll be able to inform you as to its comfort in the heat. Dean

Ha! "Little Big Bite"...that's a good one!