GB GONE

Thanks for that Frank as I assumed the large molds would be different and that is why I was asking. I'd guess that sticks would be an easy one but with appendages and other things like tails, things might get far more complicated. There are some molds that will never be a hand injection as you couldn't make the colors that way no matter what you did but for others, the change may happen. I too have lots tied up in molds and things but I didn't go into hand injecting until the dust settled a bit and some kinks were worked out. It really has been around for a lot longer than anybody realizes. Now that things are progressing and I have played around enough to be dangerous, I am ready to take things to a much higher level. To me that means larger cavity molds with less de-molding time. My engineering buddy says he could make a low psi machine for less than $200 + the air compressor. He probably has all the parts... Anyway, another adventure... I'd rathr hit the middle of the curve this time instead of the real low end like when I started hand pouring!! Jim

He was saying that NOT dealing with the pins and nuts speeds you up.... I remove all those anyways on the molds I have and just use clamps. The single wing nut is as fast as removing a clamp to me and doesn't take up all that room on your work bench when you have to clamp 50 molds together. I don't think either of the last methods are issues. I am looking for advice on how well the injection goes in the large molds and pros and cons.... Especially on how large the injector has to be to fill a 10 or 20 cavity mold for a grub bait. I guess I'll drop the $$$ and let ya'll know. Jim

Looking at both to be honest. Not sure why you get defective baits as I have many hand inject baits from Bob/Kevin and soem are very intricate. I never get a bad bait. Must be something with the venting i'd guess. I'll be honest, between the clamp and the single wing nut, I'll take the single wing nut and forget the clamp all together. It is just what I am used to and takes up way less space when I have a counter full of molds to do. I may have to go forward without any personal experience advice and then relay the info back to you guys... Jim

The other thought is that with a larger cavity mold, you just might have to have a pin/bolt/wing nut in the center area for closure. I'd have to leave that to the mold makers but at some point, pressure at just the sides may not be enough. Just thinking..... Jim

If this were true, then it would make more sense to just get all 1 or 2 cavity molds as they would cool even faster. I am guessing that the difference would not be much greater as there is considerably more metal to absorb and release the heat in the large mold. This is one of the issues I am interested in. I guess what I am saying is that I would get (4) 20 cavity molds from the get go. Certainly the first would cool after the fourth was being injected. I think 80 baits could be hand injected in less than a few minutes and then the de-molding process would begin. I think the larger, multi-cavity molds are an area that very few, if any, are doing by hand injection and that is why I would like to hear from some for advice or ideas. Jim

Just as a point of reference, any molds can be clamped together and the pins/screws removed. I have done that with my hnad poured molds for years so that is not even an issue for me and should not be for anyone really. Just use 2 clamps instead of one. Do you agree that larger cavity molds will increase your speed and production? I mean if de-molding is the big time deal then de-molding 1 large mold should be faster than de-mold several smaller molds. Seems you would also have to invest in more injectors or at least tips if you have several small molds vs larger molds. The plastic is going to clog eventually, that is just time. One large mold will not take a significant longer time to inject vs a smaller mold, just more plastic going in. I am really just asking this as I have many baits that there are no hand injection molds for so those will remain hand poured. But if I decide to make sticks grubs or other baits that can be easily hand injected, wouldn't it make way more sense to just go for a larger cavity mold out of the gate vs adding on more and more 2 or 4 cavity molds. If anyone is doing the larger ones, let me know.... Jim

I hand pour thousands of laminate baits a week. The great thing about keeping the mold closed, other than it saves a huge amount of time vs opening the mold and then closing and pouring, is that you get a true laminate throughout the bait. With pouring a mold and then closing, you only get a laminate for part of the bait with many molds. The laminates hand poured with a divided cup look as good as any injection laminate made. Just be fore warned that eventually your cup will spark in the mic if you make one as in the threads you find here. The microwave wears the metal down and will spark on the sides of the metal you cut for your cup. It takes time but every cup I have done this way eventually has sparked and some have shattered. Use caution if you are going to use these cups in production settings. I have gone another route. Jim

As I have been told in many threads here by the hand injection guys, time is money. I have been told repeatedly by many of the hand injection guys that more cavities and more molds is faster. I can go back and get those threads. If I have (4) 20 cavity molds, I can make more far more sticks than you can with 4 5-cavity molds. I doubt the time to push teh plunger down will vary by more than a couple seconds. You don't agree that it would be easier to inject one large mold vs injecting 4 seperate molds? Or that demolding 1 mold would be faster than 4 seperate molds? I know that currently it takes me far more time to use a 1 cavity mold hand injection vs the 2 cavity molds I have. On the costs you post, I have been quoted far better pricing so that is not an issue. I can get the molds for far less than what 4 of Bear's molds cost easy. Grubs is what I am looking at. Even the current posted costs between mold manufacturers are greatly different! Some single cavity molds cost more than other 2 cavity molds. Even if I paid a few bucks more (I won't), the time I could make up would easily pay for the few bucks. On the last point, I would not call them hand poured, I would call them hand injection as they should be. I have no problem saying how my baits are made. Jim

I am curious if anyone is using 10 caivty or greater hand injection molds? Not small crappie baits or panfish baits but like a 5.25 stick bait mold or 4" grub mold. I would like to know what hand injector you might be using to push all that plastic and how effective the larger molds are. As fast as hand injection is, larger molds would make it even faster. Del has 10 cavity and larger in his regular inventory now. I think that 20 cavities might be tough to push with a hand injector or you may need closer to an 8oz hand injector. Just trying to wrap my head around some of this because it seems speed is paramount with this technique. If I was doing this for production, I don't think I would waste my time on 2 or 4 cavity molds as that would just be a time limiter. Anybody doing the larger molds by hand and care to share your experiences? I am thinking I need to commission my engineering buddies to make a 1 gallon, low psi, reasonably costing injection machine in their lab. Jim

Have you considered just making a pot? Parts are super easy to come by and there have been numerous threads on this site, along with pics, to point you in the right direction. Just a thought as Wally World is always just down the road! Jim

I scent all my plastics while cooking and then after I bag them. Honestly though, I think it is mostly bunk when talking bass. Maybe it may make a difference at some point on one fish or another however I spend A LOT of time fishing on the lakes, rivers and ponds in GA, FL, WI, NC, etc and I have yet to incite a feeding frenzy with scented soft plastics. In my experience, whether tournament fishing or just casting from the bank, the fish react to the un-natural presence of the soft plastic bait, not really how is smells or even what color it is. Especially if I am flipping with a 1 1/4" weight in a bunch of slop. The bait goes by so fast on the fall that the fish just reacts and eats. They definitely don't take time to sniff the bait before eating. Same goes with a soft plastic frog tracking across the top of the water. I like to put scent in my plastics though just to hide the plastic smell you get with most production baits out there. Just my thoughts and personal experiences... Jim

Extremely impressive Mike!!! Glad the trip went as expected and thanks for sharing your mold pics! Jim

Nice job and nice color.... Jim

I hear you Al. The whole reason I even took all that time on those pop grub molds was I thought guys were absoluely crazy for opening, pouring, closing... I would not have done that even for my good buddies. And the one sided molds just didn't give a bait that performed that well to me. After all this bait talk, I am ready to go stick some pigs!!!!!!! Jim

Just for the record, hand pouring can be done without inconsistencies. Guys like Nova here on TU and many others could prove it out easy. Many can't do it though. Not saying you can't as your baits look great on your site but some just can't be steady or whatever. . I have traded bags with guys that are skilled in hand pouring and you can't tell one bait from the next. Check the gallery and look at Big Panchos RBT swims... Hand injection does give you 99% perfect baits but when the fish are biting Aaron's magic color, I either have to hand pour it or buy them as hand injection cannot make that color at all, inconsistent or not. And for the record, if I was making grubs for production, I would buy hand injection molds for sure. It would be a no brainer as Al is correct that you would want that perfect quality from the CNC machined molds that pop molds might not give you every time. Jim

Al: If you read the man's post, he is a hobbyist that hand pours for himself. Money was mentioned as an issue. POP is a viable alternative as mentioned by many more than me. This isn't a hand pour vs injection issue. It is addressing the specific issue of this post. I could care less if you like the resulting bait, the fish do. There is NO trimming to be done??!! Of course, since you have the mold and have injected it and fished it, you know all about it. I don't like grubs myself but I don't comment on the injection mold for them as I don't have one. I do have many other injection molds and I will say the that some have taken it to another level where others are simply copying common baits already on the market. Time is money to me but common sense goes way further. If this gentleman had been looking and asking about hand injection, I definitely would have pointed him in that direction. He was not. Not sure why we are even having the debate as he wanted to hand pour from the get go. Have you ever considered that some may just like to hand pour and it doesn't come down to time or money? Jim

Your obvious inexperience with all sides of the craft is apparent. Owning a business has nothing to do with giving ideas and options for this post!!??? Many here at TU are well rounded in the craft and suggest other methods/molds while others are so one sided and closed minded. I actually have experience at both hand pouring AND hand injecting and was recommending hand pouring options for the gentleman. If you read his posts, that is what he is intestested in, not an arguement about hand pouring and hand injection again. That is tired and old dude, just like your personal digs. Check out one of my MANY injection baits from my molds that I have "0" knowledge of hand injecting.... Not sure how I figured out how to push the plunger down but hey, it worked... MAGIC!!!! Have a happy day!!!!! Jim

DUH!!!! Here is the link to the hand pour, aluminum grubs. Totally forgot about these... I'd inquire to be sure they will pour with the mold closed though cause opening and pouring tails is a PITA!!!! http://www.kmolds.com/index.cfm?carttoken=YUO3Y6P050610050853&action=ViewDetails&ItemID=23&Category=1941 Jim

True!!!!! I will have to say though, these don't require much trimming if any and I have made over 50. By the time you inject your 4 cavity mold, wait for it to cool, remove the nozzle on the injector, etc, I have 25 to 30 poured already.... These aren't production molds by any means but the fish eat this grub up and I can make 100 in less than 1/2 hour. The cost of the molds were maybe $12 total.. It would cost you a lot more money to get enough injection molds to shoot them that fast. It did require time on my part to make the molds however. Plus, I was able to prove these can be hand poured. If I had a little more time, I'd give that vacu-forming a run. Grubs would not be that great of a challenge for that method though... Jim

Cost maybe???? Buying the injector and then injection molds can be pricey. My pop mold cost around 0.20. Guess TheRegulator could answer that. Jim

Best wishes Mike!!!!!!! Love to see some pics of the machine and, of course, baits!! Jim