rockhopper

Do you want sharp, or do you want to always catch the fish ? Stand Outs are very sharp, but because of their desigh, they stick the fish always in the top lip, they are almost self setting, you won't loose a fish because the hook didn't penitrate. I have landed every fish that has bitten these hooks, and that is well over a thousand fish, it's because of the design, not really the point, the hook pivits, the drop shot weight keeps it properly alined for instant hook up If you ever try these, you won't use a Gommy for drop shotting again :-)

I finnaly solved the baiting for the little ones, (and for my self as well) I no longer have to do it, after I rig them up. I just use a very small plastic worm (trout worm) on a SpecTastic rig, I still have to take the fish off, but with them missing so many bites, at least they don't loose the bait, and they catch many more fish, because they keep the lure in the water until a fish is hooked, plus it just catches more fish than worms and crickets

Well they are suposed to be in the Catslog :-)

Patent searches are a little bit harder to teach than what can be put here, one thing , don't use the PTO site, there is a better "free" site to do the searches http://www.freepatentsonline.com/search.html I recomend you do "class" searches instead of "word" searches, as a word search only goes back to 1975, with a class search you end up haveing to view every patent prior to 75 in your class, but the reading will teach you a lot. If you want a professional search done, I'm about a cheap as they come, but I only do one a week for people,, it takes me about 20 hours to do one right,, for the average new searcher it would take them about 300 hours to search one properly, and then they really don't know if the claims would shoot them down.

Mad Man had a great "looking" lure, but one that really caught no more fish than any other lure that was similure, they spent a small fortune advertising that lure, and they sold like "mad" for a couple of years, add the fact that their design got knocked off by one of the big companies. Another thing that added to their demise was they bought out another company that had a bunch of genaric molds, instead of bringing out another "new" bait, they thought all they had to do was put their Logo on these baits, and they too would sell like mad, they of course were wrong. I really liked those two guys, but they ended up being a flash in the pan company, their early success, did not prepare them for the hard knocks of this buisness, they did not put a side their early profits, or have a buisness plan that would work in the tackle industry of today. I hope they will try again in the future

[ This says a lot. And I personally resent this sweeping statement. People do not file for patents (a patent's only use is to keep others from making, selling and using an invention) just to let everyone make, use, and sell, an invention. Patents cost a good deal of money, and why ion the world would someone throw money away on one, just to say they don't need one, they are giving away their invention ? They can do that , without a patent. Those of you here, if you came up with a truely new design and some manufacturer saw it, and offered you 5 million for it, there is not a single one here, that would not sign that contract, Now there are many here who would not take the effort, to file for a patent and then try to market their new design to a manufacturer,, most because they know the odds are slim to none that they could license it, or they just don't want to take the time and money needed to do so for such a small chance of return, but if they got such a offer as above, they sell out in a heart beat, all those noble reasons seam to evaporate. I too , give away many new ideas and techniqes, those that I know have no value in licensing, yet have value to the fisherman

Actually it's any patent that is now 20 years from the filing date Any lure from 84 back now,, and it is true you need to know what "part" is patented

See ,, here you don't know the" whole story", the Senko was never patented,, Gary didn't think it would be much of a seller,, it was not worth the patent fees, and it wasn't ,, that is for six years it wasn't, and then sales took off, but it was too late for Gary to file for a patent then. SO the Senko became the knock off S.P. lure of the decade,, with nothing he could do about it. This is far from true,, you just never hear about it, right now I know of a dozen infringment suits going on in the fishing industry. These just never make the fishing rags (they don't want to give the looser a bad name, then they won't advertise with your mag. again), and the regular media could care less. The people involved in the suits don't want to make these public either, they don't want to make fishermen mad, they don't want anyone to know who is sueing, and who is being sued, all this does is alienate fishermen, who will take sides. All those you have listed, have been involved in infringment cases, on one side or the other

Not at all,,, I was looking to make a hook shaft to stick out 90 degrees from the fishing line,, this hook does not do that. Actually my factorey hook is not really close to the one I invented,, the problem was the hook machines could not make my hook, so we played with the design until we got one they could make on a hook machine. My proto's are much better than the factorey hooks, I hope someday we will be able to get a machine to make them

From your last paragraph above, I'd have to say you haven't really looked into the prior lures that's available. So there is nothing more to invent ? wait until next year, you will find someone has come up with more Now this here is intereseting... by saying "perhaps" are u implying your idea is not indeed unique & original but stem from improvent of some other existing rigs and you laid claims on the improvements. Wouldn't this be a form of copying too? but it is not an infrigement because no one b4 U filed for a patent or laid claim to it? When I invented the Stand Out hook, there was and never has been anything on the market, writen about, or patented that reseambled it, someone finding an old rig someone used and then abandoned (according to the USPO, that's what happens in cases like this) I improved nothing, as I had nothing to improve except a hook of course,, hooks are what's called a fine art,, little changes make huge difference in purformace, that's why there are 700+ patents on the ones that just have one eye !I would love to see that info. post a link for me The patent system is all about money, they cost money, and are used to protect someone's inventions, it is the reason people invent things, so they can make money off of them, thsoie who claim they don't invent for money are lying to themselves Just some of my ponderings.... please correct me if I err.

It is confussing' date=' that's why lawyers wright the laws Here are a few points if you don't mind clearing up (sry to infringe on your time like this but this patent stuff is real confusing): This is even more confusing, does this mean if a part of a lure is patented u cannot copy that patented part but you can practically reproduce that whole lure leaving out the patented part? Absolutly This is the part that really throw me off course in the issue on moral of copying: [ They may or may not leave you alone, if they leave too many people alone, they could loose their rights to go after the big offenders, it is possible for them to bring multible infringers to court at the same time, thus saving them money in legal fees of going after them one at a time If he was "buying" these lures that were made by the manufacturers, and modifing them,, he is not infringing, if they were patented, if the patents had expired or the lure never had one, he was not infringing Skeeter Your still stealing ffrom th original inventor, whether they go after you or not does not mean your innocent of doing anything wrong You mentioned it's morally wrong to copy, how does it make it morally okay now to copy after the patent has expired or not patented? To me being an artist copying is forging reguardless, but when someone patents something, they "agree" to let the world make their invention after the patent expires A person must decide for themselves what is moral to them,, the law determines what is not legal ?Thanks for your time Rockhopper in answering these fumbling questions. Perhaps, although similure, it is not to my claimes,, which is made from a single wire, (which makes manufacturing much cheaper)it also is much less effisant than my hook, as the top eye can get all bent up when fighting a fish, as it is not as rigid

You are VERY WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!! it depends on what parts of the new lure are patented, those things you list may or may not be important Just my 2 cents..and I think I'll copyright it :grin:

The "Fair use act only purtains to "processes" and process equipment"' date=',it means a company was using these before another filled for a patent on them, it keeps the patent holder from stopping people who had been already using the proccesses prior to the other filing for a patent. Fair us does not mean you can make and use a copy of a patetned item Skeeter Your still stealing ffrom th original inventor, whether they go after you or not does not mean your innocent of doing anything wrong

You can legaly copy any lure that is not patented, or the patent has expired Yes many lures use the basic Repala minow design, that patent expired many years ago

If you use just one claim of a patented lure ' date=', reguardless of other changes you have made, you are infriging

If a lure is patented,, you """""CAN NOT MAKE IT FOR PERSONAL USE"""""" This is patent infringement, even if you never sell one. Now will a lure company come after you for this ? I doubt it, but it is still moraly wrong you are stealing

This is a reson why one should have the best prior art search done they can afford, yes you can do a search yourself, but a word search only goes back to 1975 or 76, these are the "full text" stored patents,, before 75 you must do class seaches where you must read and view "every" patent in that class, and many inventions are, or can be in many classes, and these all need to be searched, but there is still no way to guarenty that all the patents are availible for the searcher. Now the lawyer getting a patent on the wheel,, this shows that the examiner in Austraila really didn't know what he was doing, as the "wheel" is not patented, all he had to do is look out a window, to see it was old art. :oops: This has been a big joke in the industry since this news first broke out, of course this also shows , just because you have a patent , it does not mean it can be enforced in court,, as all the defence has to do is prove public prior use to the filing dates.

I get many questions on how to protect my new invention without running and filing for a patent. There are a few ways that you can still protect your "filing rights" without spending any money, this gives you time to find out if your new lure or product is actually worth filing a patent on, well it let's you get a better idea if it is anyway, sometimes a sleeper like the Sinko happens, and you don't find out until it's too late. In the U.S. and Canada we are first to invent countrys, which means it's not the first person to file for a patent, but the first person who can prove they invented the product, """and did not abandon it"" that receives the patent, or wins the court case. You have 12 months from the first public disclosure or use,, or offer for sale, or give away, without an NDA, to file an application for a patent,, this application can be the much cheaper provisinal application, if you plan on filing a utility patent later (You can not file a provisinal patent on something you plan on filing a design patent on, you must file the design patent before the 12 month's from disclosure occurs) Paper trail,, keep a paper trail, where you can prove you showed a company your invention,, this will keep them from ever being able to file for their own patent, on your invention. as you can prove you showed them the invention. it would be fraud for them to file claiming they invented it, and could land them in jail. NDA's "Non Disclosure Agreements", this is a contract that keeps your invention secrete when you are offering to license the invention to a manufacturer, or when you show the invention to someone, or when you give someone the invention to use, and test. The NDA does not protect you if you "sell" someone a prototype or finished product to use and test. selling starts that one year clock running, so would posting a photo of it, or detailed description of it, on a web site. Provisinal Patent Aplication, this is not a patent, there is no provisinal patent, this is just another way the governement has given you another year, before you must shell out the big bucks for a utility patent. The Provisinal Patent Aplication just nails down your filing date, so when you do file for a utility patent the date is backed up to the provisinal date. If you don't file for the utility patent within the 12 months of the provisinal application, the the provisinal application is tossed by the PTO. Remember everything in your utility application must be in the provisinal (PPA) for all the material to be covered by it's filing date, anything not shown in the PPA (any mprovements made after filing the PPA) will have the utilities filing date, unless another PPA was filed with those improvement added, then that date is the filing date on that material. You may put "patent pending" on your product after you file for the PPA, but you must remove it, if you fail to file for the utility patent within 12 months, a fine of 50 dollars per "item" marked Patent pending can be leavied against you for marketing a product patent pending, if it is not. this could run into many, many, thousands of dollars fine, as it would be 50 dollars on each package on the store shelves. The USPO does grant some leway here for old stock to clear the shelves, but no new packages can be sent from you to the market after the 12 months expires and no other application has been filed Why protect your new invention ? Well it has to do with money,, do you want to be the one who benefits from your design, or do you want the big boys to get and sell it , and not give you a dime ? If you plan on manufacturing, and selling your own invention, or having it manufactured for you to sell, when the OEM first sells you your product to resale, the 12 month clock starts, on that day (This is considered the first sale of the product, although you are buying your own invention) you must either file a PPA, or utility patent before the 12 months from that date expire, or you loose your rights to file forever.

here you go They are tooling up now on those