jm

acetone seems to work also for cleanup.

I have a little Calhouns plastic that has been mistreated in every way described in this thread, like cold storage of part containers, shaking, humid weather, etc. It has lately been providing a head that would make a good beer proud. Well, I exaggerate a little, but it has given me quite some bubble trouble. The fix, as long as I'm in experimental mode, has been to just wait it out on the stove. last night, I put a few ounces into the same fruit jar I use to vacuum degas plaster when I'm making a mold. I put a high vacuum on it and it bubbles quite a bit for a few seconds. After 3 minutes there were just a few small bubbles. I heated up a pan full and WALLA, very few bubbles. I also did this with another brand of badly mistreated plastic, and it worked as well. I would assume from these results that any volatile contaminant in the plastic would tend to out-gas and cause bubbles as it is heated. Water has been identified as a culprit, but I suspect that a little alcohol, or benzene, or whatever from contaminated equipment in manufacturing would also cause the problem. At any rate, vacuum seems to cure it. I don't think any component of vinyl plastisol has a vapor pressure high enough to evaporate under vacuum at room temperature. You could put a gallon in a glass bottle and vacuum treat the whole gallon in ten minutes. As long as the plastic didn't get into the vacuum port, you could "slow rock" mix it at the same time. Plastic containers, of course, would collapse> I used a wide mouth fruit jar for the vacuum chamber. I just drilled a hole in a lid, slipped a Schroeder valve (refrigeration connection, available from Graingers) into it and buttered it up inside and out with Permatex RTV blue. The vacuum source is an old refrigerator compressor. It provides plenty of vacuum for the job. The only trick is that I had to restrict the outlet so it doesn't blow oil all over the kitchen floor, causing the CFO to get after me with a frying pan. Hope this helps, jm

I'm leaving town for a few days now, but when I get back I think I'll put a vacuum on some cold plastisol and see if some entrained air comes out. It just may be that the plastic is taking oxygen or nitrogen into suspension naturally, or slightly "decaying" and forming a small amount of gas that stays in solution. just thinkin' jm

Jim, The suspense is killing me. Which plastisol has the least bubble trouble? jm

I had the same problem. Discovered that the moisture was coming from the wooden stick I was stiring with. Went to a metal rod, and the first blush of bubbles is all I have to deal with. jm

You could set up a 3 in copper pipe about a 8 inches long with a cap on it. Heat it with band heaters, controlled with a lamp dimmer. It would hold about a quart and a half of plastic. Copper transfers heat very well, so you might be able to get away with only one heater near the bottom if you insulate it a little above the heater. Soft solder, like plumbing solder is ok for experimenting. If I were to put this into production, I would solder the joint with silfos silver solder at 3% - 15% silver. You need at least a map gas torch to do it, oxyacetylene is best. If you need just one stick of silfos 15, I could send it to you. jm

I'll second that!!!

You could put the pot full on and control the temp with a thermocouple temp controller. I've gotten them for anywhere from 25 to 200 dollars on E-bay. The active component in the controller is available in a chip. I think they are about $12. The temp range is a little high for the silicon active temp sensors. They go to about 125 C, and plastic is about 200 C. Platinum RTD (resistance temperature devices, either 100 or 1k ohm) would work. Honeywell makes a line that would fit any application. The thermocouple things are the most versatile, and ultimately inexpensive, however the hookup is critical. Every joint in the wiring is a thermocouple, and must be accounted for in the circuitry. The best way is to be sure to use thermocouple wire all the way to where it is connected by soldering to heavy pads near the chip. (the reference junction) RTD's are easier to use. The sensors are more expensive, but home-brew circuitry to use them is simpler, not requiring the careful treatment of the reference junction. I'm venturing into the inexpensive automation of some of the aspects of hand pour or custom baits, including temperature control. I hope to market either plans or devices as they develop, keeping in mind my roots as a poor man full of ideas. If you wish, I could track down some of the spec sheets on controllers, theory, etc. I've come across. jm

Are you taking the "meaty beaver" up to a "quarter pounder"?

Welcome Kim, As I think back on my experience with Lurecraft red, If I overheated it to get it to pour, there seemed to be a charring in the bottom of the pan. After that it faded either immediately or over time to a light pukey orange. It was heated in a Lurecraft pouring pan over a hot plate. The 4 sample runs I ran with different post treatments (earlier in this thread) seem to be stable. The red is not as vivid as I'd like, but it's adequate. The dye I used is about a year old. hope it helps. jm PS expect an order as soon as I get it by the CFO.

Are you planning to pour soft baits, or tubes? :grin:

Any contained flammable gas is a concern. an open drum with a little paint thinner and a spark goes whoosh. a closed drum and a spark causes death. It has to do with the dynamics of combustion under pressure. I don't care what the myth-busters say, if you want me to destroy your shop vac with 1 oz of lacquer thinner, it would be an easy thing to do. A shop vac has a series wound motor ( with sparking brushes) that is cooled by the air (supposed to be) going through the machine. A squirrel cage fan.blower with an external motor, either belt or direct driven should work just fine and be safe. It would also be a lot quieter and use much less power. W. W. Grainger has a 60CFM blower that we use for air supply to a small wood furnace, and many other uses that should be easily adaptable to something like this. In the north, greenhouses use a small, inexpensive blower to keep the layers of plastic separated. Possibly a source. The fume level while you are working wouldn't be enough to 'blow', but if you forgot and let a bunch of solvent evaporate in the hood, then turned on the vac, it could get more exciting than you want to deal with. I guess it depends on how much risk you or your brother in law want to take. Lights are the same. The best way to light a paint booth is by lights that shine through gasketed (fume proof) tough (Plexiglas) windows from outside the actual booth. The light switch is either explosion proof or in another room entirely. Be a safe mad scientist. jm

Whata deal, I'm going to visit some of my kids in Montana tomorrow. When I get back I'll get in touch. BTW, does anybody know if a black bass lives in Montana? jm

Kamakazee, How much does 3/4 bucket of runners weigh? jm

I was wondering what you meant by black heads. Do you pour just the heads with black recycled plastic? _________________ Haebar> Earlier in this post I wrote about how I pour black heads in a tilted mold, then trim them and by pouring, weld them to a different colored tail in the same mold. jm

Are the worms you make from recycled lures harder than virgin worms? Does the plastic get harder with each re-melt? Thanks They are a little harder. Colors are hard to reproduce, so about all you can do with it is make black worms. It works good for the black heads because the harder head stays on the kink in the hook forever. The runners sound pretty attractive. In small quantities we pay 2 bucks or so for virgin plastic. Injection runners probably have not been heated very hot or long, only hot enough to squeeze into a mold, and for a few seconds. (I assume that Kamakazee is using a screw type injection machine where the mix is stirred, heated, and then jammed into the mold, all in a few seconds by a combination screw/plunger.) I'll look on the trading board. jm

I looked back at your recipe. It seems to be about half salt by weight. Salt will do 2 things, 1. Interfere with the structure of the plastic, opening voids. 2. Attract moisture from the air. There could be one more factor involved, like perhaps ozone from a nearby air purifier, or an electronic air cleaner in the furnace. Maybe something else in the air. I think when I ran into the fading problem, I remember a slight scorching or fading as I heated it, probably too hot. jm

I recycle my plain plastic lures after they get torn up. I just wash them to get the sand from the bottom of the boat off, and store them in a coffee can till I need some black for blackheads. I throw away the salted, and heavily flakes ones. I think the remelt plastic, perhaps with a little hardener, will make a good pattern plastic instead of the more expensive silicone, especially for simple fairly open molds. I definitely wouldn't sell baits made from recycled plastic (been fished with). There just isn't enough volume to mess with the quality control.

Years ago I found that if the head of a plastic worm is a different color, a bass just nipping at it, or striking short would more likely take it head first and thus get the hook. I poured and used "blackhead" worms. I even drilled a couple of dimples into a resin mold and put a drop of white die in them before I poured the head. (eyes) I accomplished it by tipping the mold head down and pouring about a third of a worm in black. Then I would trim the head to the length I wanted with about a 60 degree slant to the cut. I would put the black head back into the mold and pour the body with a different color, starting at the head end, pouring slowly, and letting the hot plastic slide across the slanted cut on the head until it fused, then pour the rest of the body. I got a perfect weld every time. I had a color I called "purple chocolate", made by adding a couple of drops of opaque yellow color to a purple recipe. It would change color with the light. One day my friend Dave and I were fishing sand weeds in 5 feet of clear water with these worms, I had blackheads and he had plain worms. A front came through, and the fish started hitting frequently but lightly. Dave missed 5, and I boated 5. I think that is why a "road kill" blotch near the front of a Texas rigged worm is so effective. jm

I think some scents (like berkley's) have a little water in them. I've lost some baits in an open bag in the boat that went through some rain and weather, and came out pretty whitish. That might have something to do with the color problem being discussed on another thread. Something unplanned is happening to the plastic. The trick is to find out what it is. http://www.tackleunderground.com//board/viewtopic.php?t=5872 jm

A good source of experimental amounts of vacuum is an old refrigeration compressor. The oval ones will develop an extremely deep vacuum, sufficient to boil water at room temperature, but almost any of them will work. Get one out of an old refrigerator after the freon has been removed. Be sure to restrict the flow with a pinched line or a valve or it will blow out all the oil. Another good source of lab vacuum is an old piston type vacuum pump used for the old bucket milkers. Usually they are about 1/4 to 1/2 horsepower, belt driven, and provide a pretty good volume and a reasonably deep vacuum. I am experimenting with vacuum as a method to remove the air from the "plaster" to make molds. It seems to work quite well. I think that if I combine vacuum with vibration, I should get a pretty bubble free mud quickly. jm

I looked at the red bottle again last night. It is labeled 1x309 Red (not bright red) I mixed it up well, and ran a test run 4 ways at 2 drops/oz. Lurecraft 536 plastic, stored dry Lurecraft 536 plastic, Calhoun worm oil. Calhoun soft plastic, Calhoun worm oil Calhoun soft plastic, Berkley Powerbait (bass) for oil. They are stored and watched. I remember a slight visible change in color during the run I had trouble with. The mold I was trying to fill is the zipper I made. The teeth are a little on the small side, and hard to fill if the mold is cold. I wonder if a slight scorch starts a process that continues after the lure is poured and fades the color out completely. I think I'll duplicate last night's experiment except purposely slightly scorching the plastic. What is the function of heat stabilizer? Would it allow the plastic to be heated to a thin syrup without these troubles? jm

How 'bout a new color that changes at the slightest whim to whatever it feels like. We'll call it "grab bag". :-D Thanks for messing with me. It makes me feel like family. jm

I poured some red bellies with lurecraft red color. I mixed Lurecraft red with Calhoun plastic, no other additives, just a small amount (4 oz) and poured it. I had to get it hot enough to pour into a tight mold, but didn't get close to scorching the plastic. I noticed a slight fading as I poured, but the color faded out to a light puke orange after a couple of days in the bag. This color was purchased last summer. 1x309 bright red. Other lures I poured last year have also faded. They were ordinary little tail worms that looked good when I poured them. I might be a reaction with the plastic. Whatever, this red bottle is going into the trash can posthaste. jm

The second generation duplicates aren't quite as good. For one thing, the build up of coating caused the fins to get too thin to pull out of the mold easily after a multi color pour, and also they don't fill as well as they should. Single colors do fine most of the time. I consider the experiment a success, though. I learned a lot, and also learned what I don't know. I'll try vacuum degassing the mud next time, using an old milking machine vacuum pump. I have to determine where the vapor pressure line is between getting the air out, and making the water boil at room temperature. Maybe a vibration/vacuum setup. Perhaps also a soft rubber mixing bowl so that I can get the air out. I need to find a thinner coating for the master mold. Maybe none at all. More cavities per mold. Robotics, perhaps pouring multiple colors at once. Tequilla Sunrise, here I come. Eventually it'll have to be all aluminum molds. jm