borderbasser

Ok, I know I said in an earlier post that I was not interested in molding baits, but I am giving it further consideration. Anyway, I am looking at some different RTV Silicones and not sure which one to get. The only thing I am wanting to mold are swimbaits so there is the issue of undercuts in the hinge area and fins below the center line of the bait. My question is, what durometer rating do I need to find the perfect combination of flexibility and tear strength because of the undercuts? I would prefer RTV that mixes @ a 1:1 by volume since I don't have a scale. I am considering Oomoo 25 or 30 since I have used it in the past for soft plastic molds. Would this one be reccomended? I am also considering 74-30 from US composites since I am planning on order their casting resin. Does anyone have any experience with this one? Both products have a shore A 30. Can anyone weigh in on either of these two products, or reccomendations of others? Thanks guys. TJ

Husky, I am pretty interested in that stuff but I can't seem to find it on their site. Is it an epoxy or poly resin? Also, can you elaborate a little more on exactly which micro filler you use. US Composites shows a few different types. You say that you can mix the filler @ 3 to 1...is that the amount it takes to get the bait to float? Is that mix ratio similar in bouyancy to some of the softer and more bouyant type woods, or more like less bouyant hardwoods. Based on the 3:1 mixed viscosity, how do you think this product would perform on more complex baits with undercuts (flowing in and around the joints of a swimbait). Sorry for bombarding you with questions. Thanks for posting the info. TJ

I am not concerned with any voids...I think they can be eliminated some what. I have made molds for soft plastics and lead out of this stuff in the past and it works quite well if you mix the fiberglass resin in with it to thin it out into a pourable state. The trick is not to mix in any air bubbles. I realize it will be heavy, but I was under the assumption that products like alumilite were also, thus the need for adding the microspheres. Then weight can be added in the belly for ballast. Ofcourse, it very well may take more microspheres than is practical to get it to work properly at least for a floating bait. It very well may even make the bondo mix too weak for anything but thru-wire...I don't know. That is why I asked the question if anyone knows how to figure out how much of this stuff to add to the mix based on the specific gravity without having to do much trial and error. I am really not interested in going to the expense and trouble to make actual bait molds since I don't sell them and have no need to mass produce them at any level. I'm mainly interested in building a composite bait that doesn't have to be sealed and doesn't have the downfalls of wood grain to deal with. Plus, the filler and the resin are readily available here localy at the hardware store. Anyway, just thought I would put this out there to ponder. Thanks for the helps guys. TJ

I would place two weights in the head section, and then one in each of the other two sections...excluding the tail. The second and third sections, I would place the weight in the forward half of the section. I would also make each weight progressively smaller towards the the rear of the bait. In other words, the weight in the third section would be the smallest. If you can get away without putting any weight in the third section it would be better, but you will probably need one. As far as the head section is concerned, I usually place a larger weight rear of center (close to the joint) and a smaller one near center of the head...that is if you actually need two. TJ

I am thinking of doing some experimenting and building some baits out of bondo body filler/fiberglass resin mix and wanted some input. I don't want to make a mold of a bait, but would like the benefit of using a material that does not have to be sealed prior to painting. I was thinking of making an open top one piece mold that would produce a block of the material to be roughed out and finished just like a wood bait. I only do swimbaits and like to do carving on the head and I figured it would also be nice not to have to deal with any wood grain. I looked the Bondo body filler up on the internet and the specific gravity is 2.75...I believe water is somewhere in the neighborhood of .9? How would you figure out how much of the microsphere material it would require to at least get the material to a neutrally bouyant state and how would the microspheres affect the strength? Does anyone know how this stuff would compare to some of the other resins that people use (ones like feather lite) as far as strength and other qualities? Thanks. TJ

Thanks for the responses guys. The brush is a Badger 100G I believe and the tip is not bent at all. I am spraying at about 20#-25# pressure. I thought about trying the Windex, but the paint is already pretty thin as is...especially the transpartent. I saw the extender at Wasco, but didn't want to have to order anything right now until I can put together enough stuff to justify the shipping but I am definately planning on getting some. Is the extender basicly just a thinner, or does it have some other properties in it that would help? If not, the Windex may very well work. Thanks. TJ

My mistake. The paints are Polytranspar. TJ

No, they are taxidermy paints from Wasco. They are already thinned to a sprayable consistancy...seemingly quite thin actually. TJ

I am using some Lifetone water based paints trying to spray small dots and having a heck of a time with the paint drying on the tip after just a few dots. It happens with the regular and the transparent colors. I can get a few dots painted and the paint starts bubbling up out of the cup. Is there any way to overcome this? Thanks for any help. TJ

Thanks guys for the replys. Dave, I think what you are saying in theory will definately work. The only problem I have with it is I am afraid that when re-drilling the hole, there is no way you are going to get the bit perfectly straight and perfectly centered in the original hole so as not to remove any sealer from the original wall. A bushing in the hole is not an issue because the pin does not rotate in the hole. Thanks for the pic by the way...I understand now. Pete, your idea sounds interesting as well. I think it might work, but gluing the pin is a real pain if not completely impossible to do cleanly and completely with epoxy. One thing that might be worth trying though is inserting the pin after being dipped, and instead of using glue, use a few drops of thinned DickNites and see if it will run down and around the pin and soak into the wood. I think that it would be just as easy to drop the DN in before the pin and letting it soak into the wood being carefull not to block the hole. Anyway, I think I am just going to have to do a little trial and error on this one and see what works best. Thanks guys. TJ

Thanks for the reply Dave, but I think we are talking about two different things. What I am trying to seal is the inside of the holes for the removable vertical pin that runs from the belly to the back...the pin that runs through the twisted wire hinges on the opposing section. Does that make sense? I am not quite sure I understand how your injector is made but it sounds very interesting. I'd love to see a pic or illustration if you have one. It sounds like it would work good for injecting epoxy in the holes for the hangars and the other side of the hinges. Thanks. TJ

I need a little advice. I have noticed that on some of my swimbaits my paint is peeling and clearcoat busting around or near the hinge pin hole. Because I don't like to glue the pin in, I know it is due to water intrusion. It is the only place on the bait that doesn't get sealed. I like to use thinned D2T for my sealer beacuse it covers up some of the "rough" around the carving detail in the head and leaves a very good slick finish to sand and paint but I don't think I can get it in the holes for a proper seal. I'm thinking about trying to swab the hole with some DickNites to seal the hole and then sealing the bait as usual with with the D2T. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks. TJ

Clamboni, how many coats do you use? I was wondering how many it would take to get good depth to the finish when spraying. Thanks. TJ

You bet guys...hope it helps. TJ

I wanted to post a pic of how I measure epoxy. I have to give credit to someone else on another sight for this one. It is by far the easiest, quickest, cleanest, and most accurate way I have found. You just want to make sure and drill a undersized hole so that the syringe fits tight. All you have to do is obviously turn the bottle upside down and draw out what you need. When finished, just replace the syringe. There is no need to ever uncrew the cap once the hole is drilled...just re-insert the syringe...it becomes the cap. Now, one thing that is very important, don't use medical syringes. They will usually have silicone to lubricate the plunger. The syringes I use are from flexcoat and can be purchased for next to nothing from some of the rodbuilding vendors. You also want to make sure and don't mix and match you syringes for obvious reasons. They generally don't have to be cleaned and can be used for a long time without replacing. In fact, when you have emptied your bottles and you buy more, just replace the new caps with the old caps with the holes already drilled. I hope some of you might find this useful. TJ http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee275/borderbasser/102_7808.jpg

What I would really like to do is make a swimbait that I'm 100% satisfied with and make a mold of it. I just don't know how strong it would be at the hinges if using foam. I guess it can be made out of Alumalite (sp?), but I am not familiar with that stuff either. This would be opening up a whole new can of worms for me since I have never experimented with molds for hard baits. The main reason I haven't is because I don't sell my baits and it seems like it would be a lot of work for personal use. Anyway, what do you guys think about the hinge strength of these materials? TJ TJ

On the bluegill bait, I had to sand the hinges down some to allow clearance for the epoxy finish. The bass bait, I didn't allow for much clearance, but I am going to try to spary Dick Nite's finish since it is so thin. I figure I will spray 1-2 coats on the hinges and try to build the finish up on the rest of the bait. Thanks for the comments guys. TJ

Mark exactly my thoughts. We must have been typing at the same time. TJ

Deimai, I think you may be on to something. I have thought about how in the world I could attach a "post" to the hinge and drill a corresponding hole for it to fit in to the body but for some reason all I have considered was metal. Their is no reason why it can't be done with a small dowel instead. Just drill a hole in the hinge for the dowel to be glued in...if it covers the hinge pin hole, just redrill the hole and bore through the dowel...simple. The only problem I can see with this, would be for the smaller hinges on the tail...there is just not much room. I think I am going to have do a little more creative thinking on this. Thanks again. TJ

One thing I have considered trying is cutting a groove around the hinge and wrapping a sst wire around it set in the groove, and then on the backside twist the wire together like a hanger. Then, just drill a hole in the body where the glue surface is and glue it all up. Ofcourse, for asthetic reasons, a guy would probably want to fill in the groove with epoxy or something else, and sand smooth so there is no evidence of the wire. That is what is keeping me from doing it...seems kinda labor intensive. I have really been avoiding doing this anyway if possible, because it is so nice not having to deal with the problem of having the hangars and the hinges crossing paths inside the bait. So far though, I haven't had much luck pulling the hinges apart on the larger sections. I haven't pulled with quite all my might, but I think I have pulled on them much harder than any bass is going to. The only way to know though is to just go and fish'em and see what happens. TJ

Thanks bdhaeh. The hinges are made from a dowel, but I'm not sure what kind of wood it is. One word of caution though on this set up...especially on the smaller baits. On the bass bait, I was able to pull the tail section apart during a stress test (I used Devcon 5min), but I just reglued it since the tail section should not have much stress on it since there is no hook hanger on it. The only think that worries me is it may hit the water hard and just right and break it loose again. The problem, if you look is obvious. The part that seperated was the top hinge (could have just as easily been the bottom). If you look, there is not much glue surface there due to the profile of the bait. If you will go back and look at the pic of the bait that has not been painted, I reversed the hinge on the tail. In other words the top and bottom hinges are glued to the midsection and the middle one is glued to the tail. By doing this, I was able to get more glue surface on the top and bottom without sacrificing the glue surface of the middle one. I hope that makes sense. Oh, and by the way I don't have a video of the bait...wish I did. TJ

Thanks Mark. I didn't think about using tape. I build the bait as one solid piece. Before I cut out the profile from the block, I drill a 5/8" hole where I want the pin to be, cut out the bait and get it shaped and sanded down to size, and then once it is finished, cut through both of the sides at the center of the hole to seperate the the joints. TJ

The closest that I have been able to get to any ayu color is spraying either Createx transparent yellow and then a transparent green of your choice. I don't know what it is I have in green...it is one of those "a little of this and little of that" kinda deals. You can even try Createx Pearl Satin Gold instead of the trans yellow. Then, I follow up with a light coat of Createx Transparent Dark Brown over the back to taste. Last, I follow up with a polytranspar irradescent green spray over the back. Looks pretty good. I think that the main thing is to go with a yellow or gold underneath the trans green or brown to get the look you want. The hardest part I had was coming up with a good green. If you have the same problem, mix some bight yellow (non trans) and black for a good olive color. I have found that about 10-12:1 yellow to black is a good place to start. You might want to start with a little less yellow and work your way to the green you want. Here is a pic of one using the scheme I am refering to. I think it was using the mystery green though. http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee275/borderbasser/100_7418.jpg TJ

Hey captsully, try wiskeyunit167@yahoo

This is really nothing new, but few people are doing it. The only major manufacture that uses this type of hinge is 3:16 which I think are the finest hard baits made...so I had to try it. These are the hinges that I mentioned in my post about wood to wood glues. The bass bait still needs some finish. I am waiting for some Dick Nite to spray on it 'cause I didn't want to build in much clearance for appearance reasons. The bluegill bait is coated in Etex so I had to build it with a little sloppier tolarances in the hinges. TJ http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee275/borderbasser/102_7756.jpg http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee275/borderbasser/102_7755.jpg http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee275/borderbasser/102_7754.jpg http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee275/borderbasser/102_7748.jpg