philB

Hi Here is a link to a first class epoxy coatings web site crammed with all the technical and non techie information anybody could ever want may be of use to somebody. philB

Hi Riverman I'm relieved I am not the only one in the war against fisheyes, it seems just as you think you are getting to the solution for these things they suddenly pop out of the woodwork and kick you back down again:lolhuh: it can be quite depressing. It sounds like you are making baits like mine and I agree the larger the bait the more acute the problem, also flat sided lures are the culprit, I have made some round sided lures with no problems at all I really can't get my head around why that is. I propose a fisheye competition, Vodkamans 8mm beauty must surely be a leading contender philB

Touche mon ami

Hi all Cheesehead you have hit the nail smack on with your comments about the heating of lures in a drying cabinet.I not only dry the wooden blanks in a microwave but also seal with a proprietry sealant before applying a primer coat of paint before the finish paint.I have sat and watched very carefully these air bubbles appear and I am convinced they are coming through not only the wood sealant but the paint coats as well. The secret to eliminating these is the sealant. An impervious and rock hard sealant is needed too stop this air forcing or being forced out of the wood. We are talking tiny amounts of air but it is enough to erupt in the coating. I have not totally eradicated my air problems but have improved the situation by at least 95% so I'm getting there slowly but surely.I am sure that commecialy available sealants are not up to the job that lure makers require from a wood sealant although I am experimenting with one at the moment which is showing great results. I am not sure about humidity but I don't think the Uk is any more humid than anywhere else in Europe and I must admit I did have a little chuckle at the thought of all us 'Brit's' staggering around blindly in pea soup type fogs, it doesn't happen . I have since my last post tried a constant source of CO2 and if anything it made things worse, I had high hopes of success but soon burst my own bubble(excuse the punn) maybe it got rid of too much air in the coating. As a conclusion I would say if using a hardwood as the material then drying at a lower temperature is a safer option. As a footnote to this posting I have not been able to try the plastic cup in thinners method as when I tried to make some I used cellulose thinners thinking this was as good as say acetone but ended up with a liquid plastic in the bottom of the jar and the thinners on top, so although the thinners did melt the cups they did not mix with the thinners and ended up as two separate parts. I am thinking though that I may be able to paint on the plastic with a brush! mmmmm now there's a thought:lol: Kind regards philB

Hi Hoodaddy I am sure you are right about the candle, I dont think anyone could deny they do smoke !! I dont think that is the case with a meths burner though. I remember as a kid (a couple of centuries ago) I was bought a chemistry set which had a meths burner which burnt with a clear light blue flame and no smoke. Thanks for your reply philB

Hello again all I would like to thank all you guys here on TU who helped me with my earlier problems I was having with fish eyes and dry patches on my epoxy coatings. I think (touch wood) I have sorted this thanks to your a advice and am now looking to improve things even further. During my earlier problems I must have visited dozens of epoxy web sites and one of the vital pieces of information I managed to glean was the fact that air in a coating was expelled by CO2 and not heat, hence the method of flashing with a blow torch to rid air from an epoxy coating but I am still unsure of how much air a single flashing gets rid of. How often do you fellas do this?? It would seem that the fish eyes in a final coat are the ones that when the bubble bursts the epoxy is too thick to fill the crater back up eg. when it is well into its curing period. One thought that occurred to me is that if a constant source of CO2 is introduced into the drying cabinet would this assist in getting rid of 100% of air in the epoxy ?? I am thinking around the lines of a small meths burner or candle, bearing in mind of course the potential fire hazards. Your comments, ideas or experiences are eagerly awaited. Kind regards philB

Here's little old me This girl is of course a northern pike and came from a canal 20 feet wide and three feet deep. I'm the ugly one with the blunt teeth .

Hi microtek Easiest way and what most do on TU I believe is to open an account with one of the online photostores , the one I use is photobucket.com these are mostly free and when you upload your pictures it will automaticly reduce the size then just paste the link into your postings and voila. One other advantage is that your pics are always stored on a remote server so if you lose some of your local machine all is not lost. There is lots of software available which will shrink the size of pics, I use photoshop with Image Ready and can shrink them to whatever size I require but for ease go with photobucket. philB

Hi I don't have the same airbrush but most work on the same principle I believe and I think I get where you are coming from here. All the needle does is regulate how much paint and air is expelled and atomised from the nozzle, the pressure remains the same, if you connected a pressure gauge at the nozzle and opened the needle the inlet and outlet pressure would be the same regardless of the position of the needle hence the ability to have a high pressure with a very low flow rate, the needle only restricts flow rate not pressure. An example may be the tyre pressure on your car, the pressure you measure with your gauge at the shraeder valve is the same pressure as inside the tyre even though you are measuring through a tiny valve, if we were able to regulate pressure simply by closing the needle then regulators would not be required . The compressor I use has the regulator at the compressor and I set the pressure with the airbrush open not closed eg I do not set a static pressure. I am basing my reply on my experience in the gas and water industry and the principles are going to be the same after all air is just another gas . philB

Hi Snax I don't know about spraying through an airbrush but the guy who supplies my paints also manufactures aerosols and he produces a 2 part epoxy aerosol that you strike the bottom of the can and this automatically mixes the two parts together which you then spray just like you would a spray paint so I would assume that this could be done with proper thinning of the epoxy. However I could imagine fatal results for the nozzle should cleaning not be done correctly:nono:. I cant imagine why someone would want to risk that as brushed on epoxy naturally flattens anyway. philB

Hi Mark Just like me you are making mostly flat sided lures. I use an angle grinder at the moment with a flat 5" sander attachment the type you velcro pads to, and also a dremel type multitool with a flexi attachment thingy and I can knock out a beech body from start to finish in around 15 mins, however I have promised myself a belt and disc sander when I get a few spare spondoolies together, I have seen one in action and they are awesome, the beauty of them is the belt will lift from flat to vertical so you have that round edge of the belt sander for those tricky internal corners and if you want a real tight internal corner you could always turn to the dremel drum sander.Follow the link to an example. By the way Mark I got the envirotex lite and have finished 2 lures with it doing nothing different from what I was doing and they have turned out 100%, I'm not claiming success yet as I don't want to give it the kiss of death but I'm hopefull my probs with that are over, many thanks. philB (Leeds) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CHARNWOOD-W407-Combination-Belt-and-Disc-Sander-NEW_W0QQitemZ200071171239QQihZ010QQcategoryZ20782QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hi Snook Maybe this link could be of use to you philB http://mikesreelrepair.com/phpbb/index.php

Thanks for that Mark. Where do you get your Etex from ?? I have seen it for sale on Lureparts.NL from whom I have bought before but If I could get it in the UK that would be better. phil

Hi All Just a thank you for all your replies and suggestions. I have not had opportunity to follow up on them as yet but I will post as to the results after I have tried them. philB

Hi Nathan Thanks for that I shall PM him philB

Hi Fellas I'll try to answer all replies so far with this one reply. I do not touch the baits after sealing them and I have ruled out the grease spot by hand theory. I have tried 'Flashing' the epoxy with a gentle propane blowtorch, a hairdryer and over the electric toaster, this seems to liquidise the epoxy and flatten it but within a short period these damn flaws just seem to re_invent themselves, it is almost magical in nature. One thing I have not tried is Devcon 2 ton, luckily it is available in the UK so that will be my next step, I have tried 3 different epoxies so far and now have enough epoxy in my possession to glue a herd of elephants to the ceiling. I have also tried curing at different temperatures in the cabinet including cold and at the manufacturers recommended temperatures plus a few in between, the only effect of curing in an unheated cabinet was it increased the cure time and nothing else. I have even tried a ceramic hair brush, you know the type of thing, round with loads of short individual bristles , really short and stiff which I rolled over the surface of the bait, this I was informed would assist in releasing air trapped in the epoxy, oddly enough I think it almost worked and did reduce the flaws that appeared but reducing is no good I want to eliminate completely:(. I have coated with a few different brushes from stiff to soft but to no avail. I have a theory though and that is that 2K acrylic auto paints are not suitable for coating with epoxy (after all they are not designed to be coated with epoxy), I believe they must be inherently greasy in nature and this is why I am having trouble. I don't know if anyone here uses the 2 part auto acrylics but I would be interested to know if they do and if they have any trouble with them ???????? I think I may try a polyurethane varnish before the epoxy to see if I can separate the epoxy from the paint (this is how desperate I have got ) Right so its off to the shop for the 2 ton and I'll give that a try followed by the polyurethane, after that, well, I'm gonna give up on epoxy because if I spend any more time on this problem I will never get to fish the damn things and after all that is what I have been making them for . Thanks for all your replies it is great to know there are folks so willing to offer advice. philB

Hi I am just so depressed. I simply cannot get my epoxy coating right. I am making flat sided jerk baits and when I apply the epoxy finish I just totally ruin them, out of 14 produced I have only managed to successfully coat 3 of them, the others I may as well just throw them in the trash cos thats what they are TRASH, beautifully before coating and trash after coating. The problems ??? Well fish eyes and dry patches. I have followed all the advice on this forum about air bubbles ect ect ect. Heres the really weird thing, I have made 4 round profile baits, same wood, same sealer, same paint job and same epoxy and all 4 are perfect and I mean perfect a finish smoother than glass. All lures are beech wood sealed with xylene wood sealer painted with 2K auto acrylics and finished with NHP 'Clear n Simple' epoxy finish dried in a temperature controlled drying cabinet on a rotating jig . I am absolutely convinced that the flat sides are a major factor in the problems I am having. So if any of you guys are having trouble with perfectly smooth epoxy finishes and need a few fish eyes in some of your lures just send em to me cos I'm a bloody expert just follow the link to see a selection of my perfect fish eyes. To the TU Admin a request, please get rid of the gallery as every time I look at it I get even more off than I am now. Right I off for a gallon of beer now Hail all from Leodis philB http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Pikey100/lure%20diverts/

Hi Your posting touched a nerve with me as I bought myself a fret saw which is probably the same as a scroll saw. it is a nightmare to use on any wood over 5mm thick, I am sure on soft wood such as balsa it would be just fine but I use beech of 10 to 18mm thick and it is just not worth the effort and is now sat on the workbench redundant. I cannot comment on bandsaws as I have not used one but I would imagine they are a lot easier to work with than the scroll/fret saw. A far better investment would be a belt and disc sander, just cut the shape roughly and sand it down to the line voil

Hi Bob Thanks for your reply. I have never really given much attention to the way the epoxy is applied or the type of brush used. I use a very soft brush for application which is a very smooth and light method. Should I be using a stiffer brush and work the coating harder also should I be applying lighter coats and more of them rather than the heavy coat I am using now ??? philB

Hi What is the best method of de_greasing a painted lure prior to coating with epoxy, I am suffering the dreaded crater effect in my coating and I am convinced it is grease spots causing it. philB

Jason I don't use a dremel but a similar type of thing and I also use a flexible shaft which you hold just like a pen, loads more control and makes fine work a piece of cake. Not sure about wood carving bits though, there are lots of grinding/drilling and etching attachments but I must admit I ain't seen any woodcarving attachments but I'm sure somewhere someone makes em. philB

Hi all It is not what anglers think that counts but what the general public think, after all we anglers will all be of the same sane mindset. We should realise that the vast majority of the public will recognise bodies such as PETA as extreme fruitcakes but there are always going to be the small percentage of the public that are influenced by their rantings and at the end of the day when we live in countries democratically run they do have a right to air their views publicly. You guys and gals in the US are lucky though in so much as you have a government that is not afraid to follow its own mind (be it right or wrong) unlike our weak and wet government here in the UK which is so far down in the 'PC' pit that there is even talk now of Christmas being offensive to other religions !!! A good example of their weakness is the recent banning of fox hunting, a traditional pastime here in the UK for hundreds of years. As long as anglers have a united front and eloquent spokespersons PETA will pose no threat to our sport. philB