Vodkaman

Here are a few links to a vacuum injection method that I developed back in 2007. I called it vacuventing. I am sure there are more posts on the subject out there, if you try a search: http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/10718-hairy-worm/?hl=%2Bhairy+%2Bworm http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/10957-3d-legs/?hl=vacu-venting#entry75522 All the images that I ever posted on this site have been lost, so I searched back through my records and found these. DAve

A novel idea, I have never read anyone trying this before. The first thing that leaps off the page, is the danger factor. I certainly would try it, BUT, suitable gloves, protective clothing and a full face mask, as we cannot predict with any certainty what is going to happen. The two halves of the mold will certainly have to be clamped. This likely eliminates RTV as a possibility for this method, due to the bore closing in on the piston, but you might get away with it, but always check the piston movement before pouring. I think aluminium round bar would be favorite for this experiment. You may have to doctor the bore to get the piston free enough to slide. This could be done with a second bar, scuffed up with emery, starting off with fine grade. It will take some trial and error to get the balance right. If the hole gets too sloppy, you could get plastic squirting back, especially if you get an unexpected blockage. I say again, safety is the number one concern here. I think a reasonable lead in for the piston would be preferable, rather than filling up to the top, at least an inch I would say, and don't get skimpy with the mold wall thickness around the piston, plaster is not good in tension. Another solution would be an aluminium sleeve, if you can find a bar and sleeve material that is a good fit. If the initial trials are successful, I would build a simple pouring box with a hinged lid. Pour the plastic, close the lid, insert the plunger and inject. DAve

Great link. I watched the video and got all the information - very interesting. A good lure system, very clearly explained and thought out. Yes the decals are basic, but they work and are ideal for anyone just starting out in lure building. Pity he didn't have a swim test on the video, to show the difference in the weighting effects. Great kit and the price looks right to me. Dave

llokkii - could not find a web site for the flux, all the solder products got in the way. Do you have a link that I could read, sounds interesting with the water thing. Dave

I just spent an hour for a quick over view of the subject. Like you said, a crap shoot. If I lived within driving distance, I would consider the idea. It seems that low cost hobby products do not get the level of customer support that they may need. It is all a bit scary. The hobby fraternity has come down hard on FSL, with some dissatisfied customers devoting their lives to trying to bring them down, such is the anger generated by their shoddy support. It seems as though there are good Chinese products worth considering, but again, you will be dealing with companies across the globe and fall to the mercy of their product support. Good luck to anyone who decides to have a go at this technology. Dave

The body is stamped, but the holes are drilled. I would say hand drilled due to the central inaccuracy, also the drill needed sharpening. The part may have been rejected, hense not made it to the final operation. Found in a box of scraps maybe. Dave

Those are doable prices, if they can give you the quality of cut. With simple CAD design, you can give every customer exactly what they want, with no re-tooling. I had no idea that laser cutting equipment was available at such low prices. Dave

Do not let anyone dampen your enthusiasm for this project. True, it is unlikely ever to be an 'earner', but I am sure that was never the point. I have thought of similar projects for budding inventors, providing access to tools and knowhow for novices, to help get ideas off the ground and prototyped. Perhaps you need to widen the scope of your project, after all, the same experience, knowhow and equipment is not limited to lure building. Unless you have a very healthy bank balance, then local sponsorship will be the way to go. You will need to put together a detailed document in the form of a business plan. Back that up with a couple of powerpoint presentations showing lots of pictures of what and how you are going to achieve and a couple of short videos too - investors like lots of pictures and videos, not so much reading. Dave

If like you say, 'the bait falls perfectly horizontal', and the joint is nice and free, then you have done all you can. Mark's V-section suggestion, of raising the center of buoyancy while keeping the center of gravity low, will improve the vertical stability, but that would be one for the next build. Dave

Funny Mark - It just makes sense though. DAve

It would be an ideal job for my enjoyment; to have a group to teach how to design and build a lure. Then, how to test the lure and interpret the results and improve the design. What a great job that would be Dave

I recently went through all the videos that I did on the 4 segment swimmers that I did. The main aim was to produce a swimmer that had zero roll and head shake. Out of the ten protos that I built, I did get one that achieved the goal and another that came close, but I never figured out the reason at the time. After a study of the vids, I am now convinced that it was all about the joint freedom and extent of movement. The explanation is, that if resistance at the joint is encountered, when the water forces are moving the segments, then some of the force goes into rolling the bait. Like I said, this was a 4 segment swimbait, but I am convinced that the same would be true for a two segment bait. If I had a workshop, my next test would be to build two identical lures, one with a restrictive hinge and one with total freedom. Dave

Yes, it casts well, but there is significant shrinkage of a noticeable magnitude. This may or may not be important to you, but at least the shrinkage will be repeatable. The biggest issue is the material density with the specific gravity being 1.2 were water is 1.0. This means that your bait will sink like a stone. I tried adding silicon microballoons, but you have to add so much that the liquid becomes unpourable with the consistency of thick mustard. I did successfully use injection techniques, using a cake icing injector, but still, the density of the final pour left little room for ballast. Be aware that the material is brittle. I accidentally dropped a body onto a hard tiled floor and the nose snapped off, most likely weakened by the lip slot. I am not sure how this brittle nature compares with commercially available lightened resins like alumilite, they may well have the same problems, but no one has mentioned anything in the forums. Maybe I am reading too much into the problem. Finally, the resin is not water proof, it is water resistant, so you still need to pay attention to sealing and top coat protection. Obviously nowhere near as problematic as timber, and again, may not be a problem at all. On a positive note; it is cheap, easy to drill and work with saws. Sands and finishes nicely. A final warning note; the fumes are harmful, mainly due to the catalyst. use good ventilation and wear gloves. Do some more research and see what other, more experienced users around the web have to say. Is it worth a go, I would say yes. A cheap way to learn about resin casting, before you spend big money on the more accepted commercial products. The shrinkage helps if you are planning to cast in plaster, but the general rule is - hard cast, soft mold. Works well with RTV. Dave

Glad the baits worked out for you. They look superb. Dave

Yes, router bits have a need for speed. Also there is always a bit of play in drill press spindles. It was a shot that had to be tried and part of the learning process. This is where is starts to get more complex. I still think the plunge router bit is the way to go. Look at the ease of cut, in the videos linked above. We are cutting into end grain, which probably won't help much. Basically, you have to replace the drill press with a sturdy jig that will mount a high speed router. You will need to be able to raise and lower the router with a lever or wheel. If you are going to this much trouble, then an adjustable fence, possibly on two threaded bars would be nice. Or forget about the fence and replace it with a lure carriage mounted on the same two threaded bars, and drive the carriage across the cutter with another threaded bar. The lure carriage jig could be removable, so that a fence could be installed for other jobs, though I cannot think of other jobs that would use this machine. I like the lure carriage idea, as it keeps the fingers well away from that temperamental high speed router bit. I wish I had a workshop now, as I think that this is one that I would like to build. Complex but not rocket science, and can still be manufactured from stock wood, so still economically sound. Dave

I hope you take the project on Ken, it has been a while since the last good duplicator thread. Dave

X2 what Rayburnguy says. Duplicators are all basically the same form, so you don't need plans, it is all there in lots of videos. Study the vids until you understand how they work. With a little engineering nous and some imagination, do a rough design, make a plan and build one. It will likely not work very well, but it will teach you all you need to know for the Mk2. Lathe duplicators are a whole lot simpler and do not require all the mechanics. Check out Stripersonline and do a search. There are threads on that site that cover simple duplicators. Stripers' is predominantly a lathe lure building site. If you do decide to 'have a go', we are here for your questions and will help all we can. There are a select group of lure builders here that have the duplicator merit badge DAve

This is about as simple as it gets, as Musky Glenn and Travis mentioned, the drill press is the answer. The frame shown in the image below can be slid along a clamped fence. Blocks could be added as stops, to limit the cut. The cut location adjusted with the fence position. A better clamping method could be devised, using some kind of lever mechanism with rubber pads. This would be quick release. Such clamps are available off the shelf. Dave

You guys are spot on. We cut lips and ballast holes from the square stock, so why not the slotted hinge holes. Everything gets easier from the start. Of course it wouldn't work for my application, as I would be cutting my bodies on a duplicator machine. It would be desirable to carve the body as a one piece and then cut into segments. I guess the stock segments could be pinned together for the carving process. Dave

I have worked on this problem a couple of times, coming in from different directions. I will say up front that I didn't crack it. The solutions that I tried were, as you might expect, complex. But, don't fool yourself, this is actually a complex problem, so if you are looking for something simple, I am probably not your man. The cutter, I decided had to be a 1/8” router mill. From here you have two choices, either clamp the lure body and control the router or fix the router and move the body. The first job, no matter which route you take, is to clamp the lure. This first stage is not so simple, as you do not want to leave clamp marks on the body. I made a wooden rectangular frame, clamping the body with bolts, screwed in from each side. Rubber pads to protect the lure. Already you will see that simply clamping the lure is tedious. I will stop here now, as this could take a long time and could already be going in the wrong direction for you. From here, you could simply bounce ideas off me, using my engineering background. You could ask for more and I will give it, with pictures too. What ideas do you have in mind? What kind of solution are you looking for? I think we should start by collecting as many ideas as possible, even the crackpot ideas. Dave

Anglinarcher - great read and your observations pretty much match mine. I only built ten prototypes and paused the program to build a duplicator machine for larger bodies, to speed up the build process and remove some of the tedium. Unfortunately the machine was not a success. My observations: Front section ratio being fairly critical. This is an area that I needed to explore in more detail. My thoughts are that the vortex that drives the action, is a specific size for each design. Therefore there is a ‘sweet spot’ to maximize the vortex power. Too short or long and you miss the point. Joint freedom is most critical. Any hint of fouling, restriction or limiting and the action will roll badly or even fail completely. My thoughts on this are, that with freedom, the power of the vortex is absorbed into pure movement. Restrictions divert some or all of the power away from movement and into roll. My experiments with the double pin hinge were particularly successful here. I did a lot of work with ballast distribution. I found no evidence that ballast variations made any significant difference. The main usefulness of ballast was to balance each individual section so that it floated or suspended horizontally. This would relieve all strain on the hinges, improving freedom of movement. Any nose up or down variations between the segments would cause a degree of rubbing at the joints and reduce the action. Depth control. There are no forces on a lipless swimbait that forces depth. Other than building a heavy sinker, the lure is always going to swim close to the surface and horizontal, hence the importance of building the bait to swim horizontal. With only building ten prototypes, the above can only be considered as very preliminary findings and observations. The intention was to build more like a hundred for a proper study, to back up or disprove theories and ideas. Hopefully I will be able to build a workshop again one day and pick up where I left off. It is not going to happen any day soon though unfortunately. Dave

Pity about the video. It would be useful, worth considering borrowing or getting someone to help. Not sure what the posting rules are for new members. Give it a go. Here is a link to my hunting thread. Dave

How tight to make the band saw blade is always the big question. Just setting up the bearings and guides can be a brain strain. There is lots of set-up information out there in Google world, worth having a read. Personally, I judge the blade tension by sound. I pluck the blade while adjusting until I get a clear musical note. You can laugh, but it works for me. Dave

Good job Curt Dave

This is very interesting. I haven't done any jig building or done work on hunting theory for jigs, but would like to, just for interest. I spent seven years on and off, working on crank bait hunting. Once you understand what hunting is and why it happens, it is very easy to build one. I have posted my findings, so the information gathered is available for all. I would like to see some photos of your hunting bait and if possible some video of the hunting action, then I will have enough to get me started. Dave