Vodkaman

Ideally, if you make a PoP claw, then the next mold needs to be RTV. The PoP claw is going to be very breakable. Probly best to pour a plastic claw in a PoP mold, if you are going to use PoP as your production mold. This all needs some planning, because every time you copy, you lose some detail. Nove is right, symmetry is an issue to be thought about. Zbass, nice one, a library of masters, all interchangeable. A TU library of fishy parts? Possible, but not likely. Dave

I haven't done such a complex master as you are talking about. But for something as complex as a claw, I would definately mold it separately, as you suggested. You are then guaranteed to get both claws the same. When making the mold, I would have all the appendages and claws separate and not actually attached to the body. If they were hard attached, they would surely break, when you tried to remove them from the new mold. I would use soft glue, neoprene or rubber glue to attach them. Something that can be easily repaired and not damage the carving. This mold would then become my master mold, from which I would cast plastic purely for making further molds. Hope this made sense. Dave

A single length of wire bent double. One leg short, the other long. Bend the barbs and thread through the hook eye. Dave

Joe, can't see a thing. If your camera cannot handle close-ups, it would be best to take the picture from a distance that works, around 3'. Then you can crop the image on any photo software before posting. Dave

Ted. It would probably be best to remove the contents of the egg, by blowing. Make a small pin hole top and bottom and blow. Tape may help when making the holes or maybe a 1mm dia drill would work. Once the egg is dry/empty, I don't think you will have any problems. Dave

I just did some numbers on what you are doing. With one ounce of ballast, I estimate 34% of your lure is above water (no hooks or hardware). This is close to tipping over, as you are finding. The lure could probably stand another 1/4oz or even 1/2oz and still be a floater. This is all based on a pine density of around 0.5gm/cm3. Dave

I got some 2D stuff cut-out from DXF files, which I sent to the machine shop. They then ran a program that converted the DXF to G-code. I don't know what the program was called, but every m/c shop probably has it. DXF is very easy to produce with my CAD system and I would be happy to do that side of it for you. Dave

Welcome to TU Mully. Lots of good info on this site, good people too. Dave

The lure in your picture looks more like a lipless rattle trap type bait, which has the tow eye along the back. If this was your intention, I cannot help you, as I have never built one of these. So I will just talk about my kind of bait, with the nose eye and lip. To answer your question, the curves on the CAD model are purely construction. I did not need to display them, but they show the shape clearer. The lateral curve shows the max thickness location of the model. First off, regarding your build, you have gotten way ahead of yourself, especially if this is your first attempt. Once you have a design that works, yes, you can complete the entire lure with confidence, knowing that it will swim. But even experienced builders, attempting a new design or a new shape or even a new length, will do extensive testing before breaking out the paint set. You need to establish the amount of ballast first. This means float testing the lure in a bucket of water, adding and subtracting lead, changing the position of the lead, until it floats how you want it. The float test needs to take into account the paint, top coat and hardware (hooks, eyes), so needs to float a tad higher than the final lure will. Before putting your carved body anywhere near water, it should be sealed or the wood will absorb water and ruin any paint you add later. I do not know what density balsa you have, so I am going to assume that it is a denser variety, as the light stuff (model aircraft balsa) is way too soft for lures. I have adjusted my CAD model to your dimensions and done some numbers based on a balsa density of 0.2gm/cm

I don't think anyone has ever discussed this one here on TU. My solution would be to make an insert, that 'snapped' between the hooks and then make a PoP or RTV mold of the whole thing. When pouring, the insert would be attached to the hooks and inserted into the mold, completing the body mold. Then close the mold and pour. I would probably make the insert from bondo filler, as it is tough. Make a tight frame around the hooks with aluminium foil and fill with the bondo. Resin would work too, or a mixture of both. Probly need an interpretor now, lol. Dave

It is true, I need an interpretor. Usually one of the TU members will step in and write two lines and clearly explain what took me 8 paragraphs to write. The big problem is that motors are expensive. I have a 30rpm and a 60rpm motors in front of me, but sorry, I have way too many other projects on the go, to take on this one. I'll add it to my list. It is definately an experiment that needs doing, just to put this long standing issue to bed once and for all. Arguing between the merits of 1 rpm and 6rpm is nonsense, in my most humble opinion. I'm going to use propionate, so I don't even require a wheel, but I find the subject fascinating. Maybe I shouldn't get involved. Dave

I find that table totally illegible. I see the diameter and the breaking strain, but the rest of the information is meaningless to me. No wonder there is confusion. Dave

Justwannafish. You are correct to question what I wrote. I always have problems getting my message across, so best ask. Centrifugal force is what we are trying to avoid. All we want to do is invert the lure and get an even spread of top coat. If rotation is too slow, sagging will occur, if too fast, the centrifugal forces will throw the top coat outwards. It has already been stated that manually inverting the lure every few minutes works, That is effectively one rotation every 3 minutes. We also know that 6 rotations per minute of a average diameter wheel is OK too. Marks wheel of 16" diameter will have a successful outcome of 0.3 rpm to 6 rpm, proven. The reason that drying wheels commonly used are 1rpm, 4rpm and 6rpm, is that those are the commonly available motors, ie microwave, rotisseri etc. after that, the next most common speeds are 30rpm and 60rpm. I am suggesting that even a 60rpm rotation with an 8" radius, is not going to generate enough innertia to be a problem. experiment: take an 8" length of chord, tie a 1/2 oz weight to it and spin it. How fast must you rotate it before inertia takes effect? Even at 60rpm, you will not get the weight to spin, gravity will win. There has been lots of talk about rotation speed for drying wheels, but no one has really pushed the limits to find out where the limit is. All I am saying is that the speed limit is a lot higher than you might think. Dave

I've built a CAD model, so we can get a visual on members suggestions. This is just a start point. Needs bigger hooks than I have shown, but haven't drawn any yet. Anything on the model can be easily changed. Dave

That looks about 6" long! What is the actual length and depth at the deepest point? How thick is it (a pic would help)? Where did you put the ballast? How high out of the water is it on the float test (with hooks fitted) another pic? What material? You didn't actually say what the problem that you are having was. Do they swim like a stick (no action) or blow out (spiral or swim on side)? What shape lip were you using and how big (a pic of the lure that failed would help, with a ruler in the pic, also a view of the lip)? I'm thinking 45 deg lip, about 5/8" - 3/4" back from the nose, with tow eye in the nose. Ballast in the thickest part of the body, low down. I have not made a crank this big before, so I cannot even guess how big the lip would have to be. Scaling up from a 3" - 4" length lure does not always work, it is more complicated than that. I would start with a square bottomed or fan shaped lip, angled about 20 - 30 deg from side to side, tapering back to the body width, where it intersects. Length looking too long. Shorten it, at the waters edge, until it works. I am expecting conflicting opinions on this, as like I said, this one is outside my experience range. Dave

Baz! (lure and more). G'day and welcome to TU. Hope you find lots of interesting reading here. Pete needs some back-up from time to time, so he will be grateful. Dave

I just looked it up on the patent site. Rookies patent actually references the didgeridoo (Aboriginal trans: "paint with hollow eucaliptus branch"), pat. No 000,004. Rookie just made 10% change. Bare cheek if you ask me, why not be original? Dave

In the UK, we call it graffiti. Dave

I have just covered a few window frames with mosquito netting. It is a wire material, so not as versatile as soft materials and fabrics, but it is a true square pattern. It does bend to form over compound curvatures. You can even shear it (hold the bottom and slide the top to the side) and the square pattern becomes an adjustable diamond pattern. The squares are 0.1". Dave

True, visiting someone first hand will be an enlightening experience. But in the mean time, you could post some pics, with as much information as possible about materials, ballast location sizes etc. This way you can collect several opinions as to your problem. There have been a few posts of this type of late. They are very useful, not just for you, but for many others new to the art and even to some of the more experienced builders. Dave

For wire gauges, I think the popular standard is AWG (American wire gauge) 18 AWG = 0.0403 20 AWG = 0.0320 22 AWG = 0.0253 The figures that you have quoted are SWG, which is a UK standard. The question is really, which standard is in use with your wire supplier. This link is a wire gauge converter between the two standards: Wire Gauge Calculation Dave

It is not the rotation speed alone that is important, but rather the combination of the speed and the diameter of the wheel. Think of the fairground ride which uses centrifugal forces to pin you to the side wall as the floor drops away. The rotation speed is not that great, but the diameter is large. I have only used a variable speed drill for the very few D2T applications that I have done. I could not get the rotation less than 60rpm, but the bait was axially mounted, so the diameter of the wheel was very small, only half the depth of the lure body. The D2T levelled just fine. My personal opinion is that speeds much higher than 6 rpm could be tolerated, but I have not tested this idea and I am happy to conform to the experience of TU members. Do not be afraid to experiment. If your motor does 20 rpm, build a wheel and try it with test pieces. If it does not work, reduce the diameter that the lure is mounted. This is a lot easier than trying to gear the motor down. Dave

"Gamers" web sites contain a lot of information and research into PoP, its variations and additives. This is a link to one such site: Construction Corner it further links other related information. There is plenty of evidence that the mixing proportions are important. Too thin and the plaster mold will be weak. This link has a good section on mixing plaster: Hirst Arts Casting Page This article has an interesting section on release agents: JAIC 1998, Volume 37, Number 1, Article 4 (pp. 35 to 47) see last para of section 3.2 and section 3.3. This link contains a couple of comments relative to the oven drying weakness problem, but it is only one mans opinion: Re: ATM Does a *common plaster of Paris* tool deform when wet? This link has a reference to mixing proportions by weight, which is the way I do mine. It suggests a ratio of 60 (PoP) / 40 (water), I actually use a slightly thinner ratio mix of 5/4 by weight. http://dspace.unimap.edu.my/bitstream/123456789/3305/4/Methodology.pdf The third paragraph of this link: Re: ATM Plaster of Paris Tools suggests letting the mold cool down slowly in the oven, as removing the PoP cast to a cold climate could crack the mold. Seems a reasonable suggestion to me. In summary, I could not find anything that says that oven drying PoP is a bad thing, other than keeping the temperature well below 150C. I found a few references to reinforcing the mix with various materials such as wood pulp, hessian, etc. but more importantly, the mix has to be right, too weak a mixture is a bad thing. Dave

Ricik, the rules are for everyone, new members and old. I did notice several threads got removed, one or two by not so new members too. The rules are slightly different to other lure building sites, in that TU has a gallery for the specific purpose of displaying your work, most other sites do not. Dave

Rookie, there is a little bit of cave man in each of us, so I totally understand your point of view. I was thinking of re-writing the rules for you, but you are probably already aware that I am no good with short words. You should not knock the cavemans efforts, they probably didn't have a walmart in those days. Dave