Vodkaman

I am happy that you found a solution that works for you. Great feedback, valuable information for anyone else starting out with this material. Dave

I have posted this here because only searching minds would find it. Everyone who ever built his/her own lure, strives to come up with something original, game changing, name in lights, millionaire. There is nothing wrong with dreams, and they are actually possible. You do not need a doctorate or a PHd to have an original game changing idea. I am a perfect example; I have only a humble HND qualification in aeronautical engineering, but I figured out one of the massive enigmas; what the function of fish scales was. Unfortunately, I was not the first to make this discovery, but I did make it independently. I also have other ideas not fishing related that are not proven as yet. My point is that you do not have to be scientifically qualified to make life changing discoveries. As members of the relatively uneducated masses, we have the same level of imagination as the geniuses of this world. Without the constraints of conformity, we have no rules to adhere to. Being a scientist or an expert is a distinct disadvantage. All we have to do is recognize a problem, a deficiency, an improvement, or in our case, a different lure action that will catch fish. One of my biggest bug-bears is people who tell us that there is nothing new, it has all been done before, and you are re-inventing the wheel. This is just not true. I am continually amazed at what past lure designers have come up with, but only now, in this technological age, are we starting to understand how things work. Fluid dynamics is a BIG statement, the study of which requires a mathematical mind of a genius. BUT, the understanding of the basic principles only requires the viewing of a few YouTube videos, no math required. Search for ‘vortex’, ‘vortex street’, ‘Kármán vortex street’, view the videos and you will already have the knowledge required to invent your new lure. Every lure’s action can be explained by vortex technology. Understand vortex technology and you are on your way. ‘Trial and error’ has always been the way with fishing lure design, but it does not have to be that way. The chances of hitting on a solution with trial and error are infinitely small compared with having the simple knowledge of vortex technology. Vortices are the driving force behind ALL fishing lures. Figure out the basics (not difficult) and then apply the knowledge to what you want to achieve (or talk to me). Dave

I joined in 2007. Funny, I have no recollection of 'the good times', although I did have a solid circle of accommodating friends. I find today's TU far more friendly. I am not impressed with the over emphasis on painting blanks, but I feel that there is enough interest in the basics of lure design to keep the future bright. TU's future is assured. Dave

JR - nope, never heard back from them. Still, more time for fishing. New PB two days ago, 5.72Kg (12.58Lbs) bawal. I caught two over 5Kg that day. Dave

Also, indicate where you have placed the ballast. What density/type material used for the body. Dave

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/25915-benchtop-test-tank/?tab=comments#comment-196669 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULFWmn3Z6G8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18DeCorZrmI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H27vAGMBEvw Here are a few to browse. Dave

Using CAD models, direct into a duplicator really appeals to me. Speed is not an issue for me, so the dup in the video is looking very tasty, especially the detailing possibilities. Dave

That machine, adapting a 3 axis into a 2 axis function is pretty much what I had in mind, the 3rd axis being the rotation. Obviously the machine in the video is capable of great detail, but this comes at the expense of speed. For turning out featureless bodies, my machine would still use the rotating saw cutter as used in the angle grinder type machine. I will view the other videos at my leisure. Great information, thanks for posting. Dave

BlackCrow13 - I understand your points about sharing, and also that you are not alone in this opinion. Also understand that I am not knocking you or anyone else. Perhaps because I am not in the business of selling baits, I am very much the opposite in my sharing views and opinions. In fact, when I was very active on the building scene, I would take on projects purely to solve a problem, and then publish the solution. Not all of my projects were successful, but I published my findings regardless. When I read back on some of them, I cringe now I think it is OK to have a few defining trade secrets, but don't let the newcomers drown. Be active, throw them a helping lifeline, or two if required. In my time on TU, I have taken on a few beginners and made them my project, spoon feeding them you might say. Some went on to be experts in their own right. Many think this is about 'attaboys' and smileys, yes, appreciation is nice but is not what drives me. Some projects took hundreds of hours with virtually no feedback, and that is OK too. Other than the fundamental principle of TU, and my search for personal knowledge, I cannot answer the question 'why?' Oh, and it is fun Dave

The sharp edge of the thin plate makes all the difference, creating a strong, defined vortex at a lower speed. This has given me an idea for a bait myself. At the pond that I competition fish, I am only allowed to use tapioca jelly. I reckon I can cut a slab into strips and cut some tail plates from plastic water bottles. The jelly is fairly delicate so the baits won't last long. I could even save the tails with some fine mono tied to the hook (just thinking as I type). It will cost nothing in money or effort to give it a go, and technically I will be within the rules Dave

Is that a CNC duplicator machine? That would be the ultimate duplicator; no speed restrictions, no bounce, 0.25mm resolution or finer. I speculate that 10 cuts per second might be possible with vibration damping. That would produce a 3" body in 30 seconds, with a resolution of 0.25mm, not requiring any post processing other than rounding the nose. With twin cutters that time would be halved. I have such a machine in my head but have no CNC experience required to build and program the beast. TBO I am surprised the big manufacturing houses haven't built this before now. Dave

Post some picks here, so we can see what you have done so far. This will help us to help you Dave

I like the angle grinder solution. The only problem is the surface finish. You should show a close-up of the finished blank so that members can see what they are essentially dealing with, what they can expect. The finish is determined by the thread pitch of the drive. The standard pitch is 1mm. If you could obtain a drive screw with a 0.5mm pitch then the finish would be good enough not to need any post processing of the blanks. Unfortunately, the drive screw has to be of sufficient diameter so that 'bending' does not come into the equation. The speed of the drive screw also has limitations. Too fast and the stylus (master follower) will bounce. I found the limit to be between 60 - 65rpm. This gives about 1" per minute. Allowing for a couple of minutes for resetting and loading another stock blank, gives 12 - 15 blanks per minute. Post processing (flap wheel) is about 2 - 3 minutes per blank, giving about 6 minutes work per blank. So, on average, 10 blanks an hour for a 3" lure. This is obviously not mass production standards, but as a prototype engineer, I can spend a day at the machine and produce 50 identical blanks without driving myself crazy with the machine. Enough to keep me busy for a few weeks of testing. For a low production process, you could probably do 200 lures completed per week with painting and assembly. Here is a pic of the product of one session on the dup machine after post processing. I did these for a paying customer. He declared that he was not satisfied and refused to pay. Experience told me that the blank bodies were too deep and thin, I guess he found out the hard way. Not as hard as I found out. Money up front next time, but I doubt there will ever be a next time. My time is too valuable. I sold myself short and got screwed. Yes, he was a TU member. Dave

Woe! quite a bashing you took, sorry to hear about that. I am doing fine, but I don't think 100% is achievable without a lot more work on my part. I am cycling and fishing, so my life is certainly back to normal, better than I expected anyway. Now 17 weeks in, next doctors appointment in March, probably the final one. Dave

Pretty much all of these bodies are coming from China, no matter where you buy them from. I have worked in China (non-lure related) and visited many small part factories in the course of my design work. Not all small manufacturers are equal. There are those who produce an accurate shape, but know absolutely nothing about lures. Consequently, the lures do not swim as intended. Others get the swim right but fail to allow for the addition of a topcoat, which changes everything. And then there are companies that know what they are doing, took advice and produce a good product. The girls on the high intensity production line know nothing about your requirements, they are simply trying to keep up and make their quotas. Quality control is often lacking, and so you should expect a few leaky bodies. But, if the lure does not swim right, time to find a new supplier. There is plenty of good advice regards suppliers, see above post(s). I used to be extremely critical of this section of lure 'building', but now I am forced to accept its inclusion in our 'hobby'. Painting is a skill I admire deeply. Still, give me a block of wood any day Dave

Jonister - 'Like', good comments. Dave

Everyone knows I am not a painter, but I do actually own an airbrush and a box of hardly used paints. On my few attempts (count on one hand) I used a hair dryer, and was successful. Never had any problems, top coat of D2T went on without incident. As far as I know, Createx paints are designed for use on fabrics, T-shirts and so on. They react to ironing temperatures to be 'fixed' onto the material. So, a little more heat than just driving off the moisture is required to 'fix' the paint. If your paint is 'crackling' it sounds like way too much heat. For our application were we are adding an epoxy top coat, actual 'fixing' is probably not necessary, merely removing the moisture is enough, as long as the colours do not run. Again, with so little experience, I will accept criticism magnanimously if I am misleading. I don't know why I am even replying to this topic Dave

Are you sure it is not air bubbles, a common problem. Dave

You seem to have everything under control. I like your prototype plan with the adjustable ballast. Do not make lip size a function of the ballast. The lip is the 'engine' that gives the lure its action. Once you define the required action by experimenting with lip size parameters, you can then go back and tailor the ballast to suit. You are on the right track, good luck. Don't forget detailed feedback of your progress when you get started. Let people learn from your experiences, either in this post or a new post. Dave

MarkR - Planning ahead on a project, understanding your targets is a very good way to go about things, nothing wrong with this plan regardless of build experience. I fail to see how knowing the top coat thickness is going to help you. If you really want such information, I suggest mix a little epoxy, paint several patches on say a tile surface or glass. Once cured, you can peel off and use a micrometer or vernier to determine the average thickness. Clamp ten patches together, measure and divide by ten for an accurate number. But knowledge of the thickness is only of any use if you know the surface area of the body, such information cannot be calculated nor measured. However, should you go the volume/weight route, both these parameters can be measured with great accuracy, to such an extent that you can create a suspender or a slow sinker, a 20% floater without ever doing a float test. You need to think this through. Perhaps build a simple lure to test out whether what you are planning actually works. This is the power of prototyping, an opportunity to learn a great deal of the craft without the expenditure of many hours spent cutting the perfect body shape and creating a Rembrandt of a paint job, mistakes that first time builders often make. Don't take this as criticism, you obviously have an idea. If successful, I am ready to learn, if not so successful, I am ready to help as are the other participants in this thread I suspect. Dave

I agree, super material. I tried it years ago using a PoP mold, but that was a disaster. Needs to be a silicone mold. If I could find it locally, I would definitely give it another go for sure. Dave

Jonister - good comments. Once the bait is moving, the topcoat has very little effect on a lipped lure, the dynamic effects of the water are so overpowering. Whether you design the lure as a 'sinker' or a 'floater', the lure is going to swim at a depth defined by the lip, eye position and the body shape. Many TU members, some of which I have enormous respect for, will disagree with me on this point, but the parameters that I mentioned above determine the depth that the lure swims at. Line thickness also plays a crucial part. Ballast distribution has a significant effect on the 'action', but because the epoxy is evenly distributed, action is hardly affected by the topcoat. Knowledge of the density of the topcoat and the effect on the final lure density only matters if you are striving for a neutral density lure, in other words a 'suspending' lure, which I presumed that was the case in this discussion. Perhaps I should have asked the reason for the question in the first place Dave

Great post. Useful for anyone going down this road. I am not a plastics guy, but from a customer's point of view; I will buy from the closest/quickest retailer that can supply exactly what I want. Price of the product doesn't come into the equation, I am not going to travel miles to save a few bucks. With good service, I am loyal, if a new retailer is found closer, I would stick with my regular supplier until they let me down three times, I am currently looking for a new tackle supplier as my regular shop continually is out of stock. Most retailers including yourself are selling the same standard products perhaps with color variations, and this is good, people want the 'standards', but this makes you easily replaceable. My solution to this dilemma; invent new lures to supplement the standards, this will make your retail business unique and irreplaceable. Designing a new lure is not that difficult, contrary to popular belief, it has NOT all been done before. There is always room for improvement. Designing only requires fishing experience, observational skills and a good imagination. Study the standards and think about the problems, how could they be improved. Think about combinations of the best features. Think about what is missing in the lure arsenal, perhaps a food creature that hasn't been covered very well or not at all. Talk to your customers, extract ideas from them, what would they like to see on your shelves. Ideas are the hard part, actual prototyping and testing is easy. Once you have a new variant, involve your customers for testing and feedback, let them feel involved in the process. Eventually, with half a dozen original products, word will soon spread. If one of your lures becomes a popular seller, only then do you need to consider getting aluminium molds cut, if at all. Developing new ideas does not take up any of your time, you do it in your sleep, while you are fishing, talking with fishing buddies and so on. The creation of the master is a combination of cut, glue and simple fabrication. There are plenty of posts on mold making here on TU, and experts to bounce ideas from. Dave

Mark - Glad you did mate, because I feel sure that you were not the only one. I had to think hard before I got my head around this stuff when I started my research on this subject. Dave

MarkR - very good (without trying to sound patronizing), you are right on the button. This is were the Archimedes principles comes in to play. An accurate gram scale, beaker of water, a pair of long nose pliers and a simple calculator, and you can experiment and prove the above ideas very easily and simply, and learn a lot more about your lure at the same time. The clue is in the density units: grams per centimeter cubed; weight divided by volume. But there I go, getting all technical again Dave