Vodkaman

Someone posted the 'confused' smiley against my post. I just wish I knew what part of my reply was confusing. I am infamous for my bad explanations and over complicating things, and I do try to keep this fact in mind when I give technical replies. My guess is that the confusion is the 'density of epoxy' comment, 'the weight added to the lure is only 20% of the weight of the top coat applied'. Let me try and qualify this statement without going into Archimede's principles. People often think that if they add say 5 grams of epoxy to a lure that they are adding 5 grams of weight to the lure, and so 5 grams less ballast would be required. Imagine if the epoxy density was 1g/cm3, the same density of water, in other words, the epoxy would be neutral buoyancy. No matter how many coats of epoxy that you added to the lure, no ballast effect would be added to the lure. A suspending lure would still suspend. Now, increase the epoxy density to 1.2g/cm3 (20% increase). That extra 20% in density is heavier than water. 20% of 5 grams is 1 gram, 5 grams of epoxy adds 1 gram of ballast. I think my explanation may have failed again. Perhaps someone out there who understands what I am trying to say, could step in and explain more clearly, it would be of great help to me and all the 'confused' out there Dave

I believe, from reading TU posts, that Etex is thinner than epoxy. I doubt that two coats would give a wall thickness of greater than 1mm. Surface area is a difficult parameter to measure on a lure, so knowing the top coat thickness does not really help you. I suggest that for the first few lures, that you accurately weigh before and after each coat to get an idea of the weight. Keep in mind that the density of the top coat for epoxies is around 1.2g/cm3. This means that the weight added to the lure is only 20% of the weight of the top coat applied. Dave

Not an expert, but I agree with Gliders. These baits do nothing on a constant retrieve, particularly a slow retrieve. From an engineering point, the twitch or jerk sets up a single vortex, which sets up the lure moving in a particular direction. The next jerk moves the lure in the opposite direction, and so on. The subsequent glide quality depends on the profile. A chubby lure will have poor glide qualities, a slick, torpedo profile will have a longer glide. it all depends on what you are looking for, and of course the definition; twitch bait, jerk bait or glider. Your bait profile I would say falls into the category of twitch or jerk. Weight distribution is also very important. A central weight will cause the bait to over rotate in the XY axis, and the forward energy lost, thus killing the glide length. The weight should be evenly distributed along it's length, or at least front and rear, balanced for a level sink. As for a rescue, I would say move on. Prototype and test before finishing. You cannot cut a lure and expect it to work first time without the experience. Your lure has not been a waste of time, as long as you learn from the experience. As for determining the ballast, read the 'Archimede's dunk test' post. This will help you get closer to the suspender or slow sinker that you desire. Dave

Yes, report back, good or bad, so others can learn. It may take a couple of goes to get the procedure right. Careful with clean-up. Do not use your kitchen sink unless you know a cheap plumber. Dave

Another consideration; hooks often have some kind of coating that prevents corrosion, as finely tempered steel is far from corrosion resistant. Try burning off this enamel type coating. BUT, be careful not to apply too much heat that the temper of the steel is altered. Basically, if the hook glows, you have blown it. Dipping in molten lead followed by some scraping prior to putting in the mold with flux. Dave

I am not in touch with flux technology. The last time I used it, was a tin of paste. I was working with brass parts at the time. Basically it cleans and wets the surfaces allowing a better contact. Definitely worth a try. Dave

Have you tried using flux. It sounds like the lead is repelling the hook. I think a light rub with 400 grit and flux dip might improve the situation. Dave

The basic principles of wire bending tools are not dissimilar from product to product. Some are better built and better quality than others. But, with some YouTube research, you can get an understanding of the principles, and with a modest workshop, you can design and build your own, specifically to your own requirements. I did this for making barrel twist eyes for crank baits. Common sense and a little imagination is all that is required. But, if you have the money, research and go for the best. Dave

Travis - I knew I had read the 'decade' thing, but could not remember names. Most people will think that because PoP is so cheap then it must be inferior, but apart from durability of the final mold, this is not true. I have not tried Durham's, but the general census that I have read here on TU, is that it is a superior product with the same PoP qualities. Dave

Personally, I too would be nervous about the cost too, although by the comments above, the VAC50 is a good choice of material. I would have a few practice runs with PoP (plaster of Paris). I would include a short section of copper pipe or something convenient of the appropriate size for the injector to press against, thus protecting the brittle PoP. Plastic pipe might work but I would be concerned about the temperatures. Easy enough to do a test. All the instructions mentioned above apply regarding the box, adequate venting, mold release etc. There will be bubbles, so tapping the box while the PoP is wet will help release the bubbles. When both halves are cured, seal the cavities with thinned epoxy. Some use thinned PVC wood glue. Don't skimp on mold thickness, again as mentioned previously, HUGE mistake. Once you can make a PoP mold with little fuss, then you are ready for the BIG time. You never know, you might like the PoP mold. Done right, it will certainly give you a good quality result. If you do stay with PoP, I suggest back the mold halves with plywood, to prevent the possibility of cracking under clamping. There are TU members who are using PoP molds that they made a decade ago or more. Just a suggestion. PoP is so cheap, it is 'a shot to nothing' and good experience. Also, good for future prototyping lure ideas without the expense. Dave

Tarheelfishing88 - I would certainly like to hear more of your work. Feel free to PM me. General - please keep to the topic. I love getting feedback though. PM me or post in the relevant topic. Thanks. Dave

RPM - Duplicators are beyond this discussion. I suggest that if you are interested and have a few questions, open up a new thread. There are a couple of old duplicator designers here, and plenty of people interested in the subject. Personally, I built the duplicator purely because the subject was current at the time. It was just another challenge. BUT, it was incredibly useful in my R+D work, providing me with hundreds of identical lure bodies that I then could do relative testing with, evaluating the effects of adjustments with total confidence that the bodies were identical other than very slight variations in batch density. A duplicator does not have to be a high production tool. Also, I hate carving Dave

RPM - getting a fuzzy feeling here Tally - we are good I am mildly disturbed with the direction that 'lure design' has taken, with regard to the use of cheap Chinese molded imports requiring only painting. I argued fervently against the trend, believing it to be unconstitutional in the world of TU. However, with such support among some of the most eminent members whom I have the utmost respect, I decided to let the issue go. There will always be members who want to get to the grass roots of lure design. We must nurture these bright new minds as they are the future of lure design. My attitude now is; live and let live with the painters. Some people believe that it has 'all been done', 'thought of', 'invented'. Absolutely not true. We are only at the beginning of lure design. So much more to be discovered and achieved by the younger and more inventive minds. 'Custom' is another bone that I have had to bury. I guess it is all about the definition and interpretation. To me; it implies something new and original, tailored to a customers personal requirements. I actually did a custom job, producing a design on the lines of a 'triple trout'. But the job became very tedious with the many design changes. In the end, I figured that my time was worth a lot more than the trifle that I was being paid. I love designing, but designing for others can be very tedious unless it is my ideas being developed. I have worked on ideas that I really believed in, but the customers lost interest Dave

RPM - marvelous feedback. Half the time I was thinking, 'is anyone reading this stuff'. Message to anyone; always give feedback, positive or negative, on ideas that you test. This way, the author does not think that he/she is wasting their time, and also lets other members know whether the idea is confirmed or denied. Dave

Tally - I am humbled. Many thanks Dave

I suspect that many of the longer members of TU have been waiting with baited breath for me to chime in on the return of Mr Tally, as we have some serious ‘history’ to deal with. Fortunately the 12,000 miles between our locations kept us sufficiently separated. Don’t bother searching the archives as that series of heated exchanges were lost in one of the many system crashes around that time, in fact, even my join date is wrong by a month or more. I joined around Oct 96. As a side note, this is the sixth draft of this post, and I will hold it back for 24 hours before posting. What caused the problem - I asked as a ‘newby’ (I always hated that term); how do cranks work, what makes them move. The derogatory answer, I forget the details, but it was basically, ‘do the work and figure it out for yourself, you get nothing on a silver platter’. Not an accurate quote, but the basic message. After the heated exchanges that followed, not just from Tally, but from the entire clique of designers of that time, some of which I never resolved my differences with, I carried my anger for many years. I have always hated cliques, groups of self-gratifying members who seem to think that they are above their peers and something special. I eventually concluded that the extremely hostile response to my very basic question was because no one actually knew the answer. As an engineer, I started my research, and it did not take long to find my answers, and I introduced the word ‘vortex’ to the vocabulary of the lure designer. Soon after, I tackled one of the BIG mysteries of lure design; ‘hunting’. Everyone had seen ‘hunting’ but no one understood what made it happen. My questions and discussions on the subject met with even more animosity, and so I was determined to solve the resolve with an engineering solution. This became my passion. My mentor at this time was KC Dano. We exchanged more than a thousand messages over the next several years, mostly about my hunting project. He last logged on Oct 2014. Does anyone know if he is ok? I built many hundreds maybe even as many as one thousand prototypes exploring my many theories on the subject, and I am embarrassed that it took some seven years to crack the theory, but it is published for all to read. The method is proven. With care, 100% repeatable. Am I a "REAL" custom crank bait maker? - certainly not. I have never professed to be a custom designer or even a lure builder. In fact, after more than ten years, I have never finished (painted) a lure. I have test fished my lures and yes, they do catch. I have many local fishermen who continue to hassle me for lures after I gave a few away (unpainted), after they caught me testing in my 8’ x 4’ tank in the front of my house. If you would like a label, I would call myself an R+D lure engineer. I confess, after successfully designing and building a couple of lure duplicator machines, I hit hard times, and had to give up my workshop and all my developed machines, and have done very little since. I did some work on a process of injection combined with vacuum forming that was very successful for difficult to pour soft plastics. I also did some work on 3D printing of mold designs that needs more work, but the design is good, only material availability problems remain. I revamped an existing idea plucked from the TU archives to do with Archimedes principles which many members have picked up and run with. I particularly like this idea even though it was not my own. Useful for lure development, production repeatability and reverse engineering (unfortunately). I did a lot of design work for a few lure producers and mold makers, but to be honest, I found this work to be unimaginative and tedious. Do I still bear a grudge – certainly not. I am confident in my knowledge and ability. I read TU posts to keep in touch, offer some advice and opinions, and learn (a lot) in the process. I will accept questioning of my ideas and concepts and will put forward my point of view. It is up to the membership to accept or reject my ideas. I only ask that you show some human respect and keep it civil. My message to every newcomer to the TU community; is ask away. No matter how basic or even silly you think your question is, ASK IT. If you do not get a suitable response, message me and I will do my best to help. Welcome back Mr, Tally. Dave

Craig - Physio is a noble trade. The physio was very basic, but I guess all that it needed to be at that stage. I suggested that they need a physio room with mock-ups of life situations 'hippy' and other joint survivors would have to face, videos with the best solutions to overcome the problems and specific exercises that would help. Here in Indonesia, this would be how to get on the back of a motorbike, how to climb in to the back of an angkot (public transport in the form of a minibus with low bench seats), toilet issues, and many more. Post op, the patients are basically unarmed when they hit the real world, and likely to do themselves more damage if they attempt something the wrong way.

Kudos for passing on the credit where it is due. Also for bringing the idea to TU. Dave

Great post JD_Mudbug, very comprehensive. I have not tried, but I suspect that an acetone soak over night would make brushes re-usable. I am very fortunate here in Indonesia; a 15g bottle of CA glue costs about US$0.10. I buy 5 bottles at a time, so many applications. The fan use is very important, those fumes are nasty. I like the 'glue the weight for testing' idea, definitely worth trying. Dave

I am now approaching 12 weeks post op and everything is going very well. I started cycling again at 6 weeks, and this has really accelerated my recovery with the non-impact exercise. I did have a setback at 8 weeks when I forgot about the hip and climbed onto the bed wrong. I strained something but I was back on track a week later. I cycled to my 2 month checkup. I thought the doc might be angry, but when he saw me walk into his consultation room in my fancy cycling duds and helmet, he had a beaming smile. At the end of the checkup he followed me out to the bicycle and took some selfies to show other patients what is possible for a 62yo after two months. I still get stiff after inactivity, but after a few steps I am walking normally. I climb stairs one at a time for safety although I probably could climb normally if I tried. I got sick and tired of old ladies sprinting passed me in the street, but I don't have to suffer that humiliation any more. I returned to fishing around week 5. This got me out of the house daily, and also contributed to my recovery. This injury is the kind of thing that you need goals to get you back into life. Fishing and cycling did it for me. Dave

Eastman03 - I don't think you can slow down the cure time, but I cannot remember the need to. What I do know; is that acetone is a solvent for CA glue, useful for clean-up. I design lures. I love the engineering, the theory behind the action. I do not fish the lures as lures are not permitted on the artificial ponds that I frequent. I do test the lures on these ponds away from competition times. I get ideas, build them, then store in a bag which eventually gets lost in my busy life. My principal quarry is bawal, a very aggressive predator/scavenger. Here is a pic of a 4.5Kg (10Lb) specimen (size 10 / 44 shoe for reference). I do not want to distract from this interesting post, so any further discussion on this side issue should be done by PM. Dave

Eastman03 - the point of CA glue (super glue) is that it dries in seconds. You can make any mods, add a few drops of glue, and you are good for the next test. CA glue is the perfect prototype tool. Dave

Don't sweat it Mark, we know you were just joking. Dave

I shouldn't really comment on this post as I do not finish lures. Standard superglue (runny) is great for raising the wood grain, allowing it to be sanded down, giving a glass surface for painting. Providing that after sanding you give it an extra coat of glue, the lure will be good for testing. Two birds with one stone. Dave

The name thing bothers me too, but if you pay a subscription I believe this can be fixed. I think of it as a 'dry run' for when I want my own serious website. You get a better idea for what functions are available and what it is possible to do. A lot of websites start life this way. Check out the credits at the bottom of this page on TU. Dave