skeeter jones

My name is Curtis, I live in Oklahoma City Oklahoma. I started last year spendind money on lure making and setting up a work area. I painted a few plastic bodies last year and started carving this year. I like to tournament fish so during the spring and summer I fish more than I make. I have learned that there is more to a lure than just opening a package and tying it on the end of a line. I do my best to share what I have learned when I am online. There are several of the old dogs that answer the questions no matter how many times the question has been asked before and that is what makes this a great site. I don't have my computer hooked up at home right now so I get on line when I'm at work. I'm an industrial Maintenance Tech and have the Jack of all trade skill sets. I do electrical and mechanical, fabrication, welding, hydraulics and pneumatics. I was raised in Florida, my Dad owned a bait and tackle bussiness, so I love to fish. I love hunting as well and thats where I've been the last month. Please remember that when a question is asked it makes you think, when you think you create.. so even thoes who are on the take are in fact giving by making us think.

You guys are great in my book. I have learned quite a bit about the science involved in making a lure. In my line of work its hard to fix something if I don't understand why it work and what each part does to make it work. I like to tournament fish and I want the lure that will knock em out and bring them to the boat . I want some erattic action. Why are there different ratios of reels? Because the slower retrive allows the lure to wiggle ,waggle,wobble more. A lure may death roll with a 7:1 ratio but be stable with a 5:1 based on the velocity of travel. I'm taking notes and have a lot of searching to do to try and find the answers I need. Thanks a bunch.

Nice pictures of the process. Very helpfull. I'm still working on a way to get the side of a wide bait round and uniform. The side profile has a tapered round radius and if you're not careful you will end up with a flat spot. I'm kinda wondering what a lure will do if one side has a flat side and the other is round.

I am going to ask another question here as well. I like this thread and I hope yall don't get tired of me asking the questions. Vodkman you said one of the solutions was to cut the back end of the lure down. This made me think about the amount of dive angle or pitch on a lure. Does more pitch/dive would cause more of the body to be exposed to the water forces, creating more pressure ,more weight on the end of the lever. Reducing the length of the body would reduce the weight/force. When the lure body is piched down at a steep angle, does the vorticies produced by the lip have less effect on the lure. I am picturing the tail of the lure being above the horozonal line and the vorticies have less surface area to hit. By the way in my attachment F1 is the force on the lip before the line tie . F2 is the lip force behind the line tie and the combine weight of the lure plus water pressure.. I have checked several deep diving lures and they seem to have about a 10 degree lip angle. Is this about right?

Ok Im not sure if the attachment is going to make it here. Dave if it does see if I have the right location where the ballast would influce the lever arm on the lure. This made sense to me because you said if the ballast was moved forward it would stabilize the lure . It would move the ballast influence point closer to the line tie ,which is the pivot or fulcrum of the lever arm.

Do most of the lures you guys make have a flat side?. I have been trying to make my sides Round. The router would work well to start the round over on the edges. I'm doing balsa now so sandpaper is doing fine. Also it was mentioned here about duplicators on a lathe. I read a post on this on this site. If I am trying to make shad shaped round lures, can they be copied with a duplicator. It does'nt seem possible to me?

Any body have pictures of how they put their carving lines on the lure. Just learning and would love to be able to carve out three and hour.

I'd like to hear some answer as well. What I have been doing is cutting out the radius profile on a small block of wood and then put my sand paper in the block. This can be complicated though if the lure has several taper areas. I made one for the side, one for the belly and one for the back. The best way so far that I found to ruff one in is to use a scroll saw.Draw the top profile and side profile on a block of wood. Cut the top profile and then tape it back together then cut the side profile. Make sure you leave some wood on the outside edge of your drawing to help support the piece when you're cutting it. In other words dont draw the nose or tail of the lure on the very end of the wood . Then you can use the blocks with different radius curves to round over the sharp corners. Hope this makes sense.

I made up a diargam on word using the draw feature. Is it possible for me to attach the document so the diagram can be seen.

You might find it helpfull to buy three different size clear plastic lures, from one of the lure suppliers, shallow med and deep. You can see where they put the ballast and rattles in their lures. I used them to practice painting on as well. Wood lures will have a different denisity but they will be some what close. This is a good post to save to favorites hhttp://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8647ttp://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8647

I tried using the 5 min epoxy and by the time I got the first one done the epoxy had set up on me , I tried to get the second one done and it failed. I did not get enough epoxy in the hole and that really is the key to a good bond. I use the wire method to push the epoxy in the hole. I wonder if you thinned the epoxy with a drop of acetone would it affect its bonding strength, it should thin it and extend its workable time.

Vodkaman, Sorry I don't understand the perpendicular distance from the tow line to the ballast. Do I measure the distance from the eye to the ballast?. I understand that the tow angle will be different on every bait based on lip length. Are you by chance extending the tow line angle below the lure and measuring the distance from the ballast to where that line would intersect.???

Ro, I bet you are right. I see the terms as equal. A worm on .the table or a snake will wiggle to move, he is moving side to side

Axis of movement for lures and terms simplified. The big term that has everyone confused is wiggle, waggle, and wobble. I have read several explanations and have come up with this explanation and suggestion . You don’t have to agree this is just how I understand the movements (rotations) of a lure to be. The lure can only rotate on three axis. The Z axis is a vertical line that goes from the Back (top) of the lure to the Belly (bottom) of the lure. Rotation of the lure on this axis will cause the nose (front) and tail (rear) of the lure to move side to side. The technical term is Yaw , for this forum it can be called wiggle, waggle or wobble. Notice I referred to the top of the lure as the back; this is where its backbone would be not to be confused with the rear or tail. The X axis is a horizontal line that runs from the nose to the tail of the lure. Rotation on this axis is called Roll. It causes the back and belly to move in a clockwise or counterclockwise manner. A wide lure with out a belly weight will Roll over and lay flat on the water. The Y axis is a horizontal line that runs from one side to the other. Movement on this axis is Pitch. The nose and tail of the lure will be found in one of three states(positions) in relationship to the horizontal plan formed by the waters surface. The three states (positions) are level, diving (nose down), or climbing ( nose up).

I'm going to try and post agin keep being told I'm not logged in. Webble, wobble waggle. Why dont we just call the side to side either one of the three. The movement (rotation)of the top(back) and the belly (bottom ) of the bait ROLL. I've seen post where someone is trying to explain the difference and they still use the same term for two seperate axis movement.

Vodkaman, How did you determine that tow line angle (in diagram was in line with with the ballast. You have a line marked line of instability going through the ballast that parrales the tow line. So if I move the eye( tow line) where does the line of instability move. A parralel line can be drawn to the tow line angle reguardless of where I place the ballast. Diagram7 you said the two line of insability are drawn, they are not marked so are you refering to the verticle lin through the ballast and the tow line and ballast line

Any one else having trouble with being logged off the site after typing a long reply. I just typed a reply and it said I was not logged in. My name was still at the top of the page. I lost every thing I typed. Time for a drink....

Thanks Bob, I thought I was missing something. I am working on a design that will spin and spit. I am trying to carve in a popper lip and have a place to mount the eye and prop as well.

I am building a double prop bait, shad shape. I bought some big props. When I tested it on the water they did not spin. I messed around with them and found I could make them spin clockwise or counter clockwise depending on how I bent the prop. One key to getting them to spin was to bend out the tips foward. I tested them on a fan to make sure they spin. My buddy ordered some 22.00 baits and just got them in. I told him to check and see if the props actually spin. He said they don't need to spin, that the props make the lure spit. What do you think. Should it spit or spin. Have you found any ways to make it spit more or spin more.

Vodkaman, this is a big help to me. I've got a lot to learn. Thanks for the detailed response.

Who is a good source for the higher density balsa wood???

I was wondering if any one has tried to make a reverse crank bait. I am playing with the idea of a lure that is weighted that will sink to the bottom and then upon retrive will shoot up to the surface. Im not sure where the weigh should be placed. I was going to place a lip on the top of the lure. I've use some chatter baits and they have the lift but not the profile . Any ideas or info would be great.

I'm at work so I don't have time for searching. Do you use a different plastic for swimbaits or is there a formula or mix that makes them more durable. I have been hanging out on the hard bait side but will be wanting to make some swimbaits later. If someone here has been the go to guy please put his name on this thread and I'll search their threads.

Making sure I understand, apply d2t to lure then tourch over the lure. I have a butane solder gun that should be ideal for that. I have been having trouble with the epoxy not leveling out. What temp should the room be?

I want you opinion. Do you mask your lips with tape when epoxy coating. I have had two baits peel paint when I tried to remove the tape. I have seen some guys use it others don't. It seems like I am getting just enough epoxy on the tape to stop it from bonding on the lure.