carolinamike

It’s been a long time since I’ve checked in, and I don’t know how many of the old hands are still around, but I just thought I would pop in and say hello! It’s been 14 years since I joined TU it’s nice to see it’s still going strong!!!

Hi everyone, I have not checked in a while , I hope that you all are doing well

yes . zorn

Crom, if Josh works for reaction, Andre is not gonna like it very much if he answers your questions, so I will try to. If youre talking about doing a complete color switch, which includes a different color plastic and flake, just for the liquid part youre probably talking about an hour to an hour and a half, then you have to run the plastic out of the heat exchanger and depending on the size of the bait and flake this could add as much as another hour. Most companies will quote the amount of baits to be produced in an 8 hour period to be 10,000 pieces. The 30-40 gallons is for one machine, I have run some big baits but use 50 gallons a day. Its no so much repairs as it is upkeep of the machine, machines with pumps have to have the staters replaced often. Depending on what type of pump, staters can be as much as 200-300 dollars a piece, so if you have a two color machine, that doubles. Zorn machines are great, but very expensive and you have to have an extensive knowledge of plastic and how it flows. You get one day of training when you buy a machine, a pneumatic machine will probably run you around 40,000 dollars or more, a hydraulic machine will probly be around 60,000 or more. If the machines are very well maintained, then there shouldn't be many repairs but amatuer mistakes can be very expensive. A lot of times Ray won't quote a machine to someone that he is sure is not ready, the first time I called him he told me I had no need for the type of machine he sells, which was a very big favor he done for me at the time, when I called him back 8 years later, he ageed that I was ready then. If he would've sold me a machine the first time I would have lost my butt. I did get your P.M. if you would like to talk, you can P.M. me again and I will give you my phone number.

Wow I can't believe someone pulled this one back up, but I'm glad they did. Man it brings back bad memories! Guys please be careful, 350 degree, sticky substance is definatly nothing to play around with. Keep a container of water near your work station and gloves are a good idea as well. I cannot express to you how painful that expirience was. Bait making is a great, fun hobby but you can never be too safe.

The Spike-It paste is easy to use for little guys too. The secret is to weigh the coloring. If you try to use drops, it just won't work very well. About a gram per 20 ounces of plastic is usually sufficient. But it is very messy. As far as changeable colors go, Spike-It has those also. They have a burple, which looks brown out of the water and looks purple in the water. Now that could be the other way around, I haven't used that color in a while. Also, their STP motor oil changes colors when put in the water. I have used Spike-It colors for 14 years. They've never not been able to match a color, or they've always been able to tell me what colors to mix to achieve what I was looking for. On the paste, you need to use just a little plastic softener stirred in, just so you can pour it out of the container. And it also helps it to mix well, and there's a little bit more stirring involved.

Why not buy silica powder and make it yourself? All the sinking additive is is silica (ground glass).

If you are injecting the mold it is really simple to see what the problem is, the mold has absolutley no venting. Scratch Awl or a triangular shaped jewlers file or mini file will do fine, you can buy the mini files and scratch awls at Lowes or Home Depot. The vents do not have to be very deep, make the vents on each side of the worm every 1/4" all the way down the length of the worm. As long as the vents are not too deep then there is no such thing as too many. Also put a vent coming straight out of the bottom of the tail. Looking at the mold, there is absolutley no where for the air to escape. When you inject do it slowley so the plastic has time to push the air out, even if you hand pour these I fear you wont get a quality worm without some sort of air encapsulation or incomplete worm. Proper venting will give you a quality product and production time will be cut in half. Also you only have to vent one half of the mold.

Lureworks has scuppernong already made up. They carry almost all major colors. Sometimes it's not listed on their website, you just have to call and ask. I've used it for years and it's a match to Zoom's.

Actually doing both achieves the same thing, yes pouring scent into the plastic before pouring the bait does work but you lose some scent due to the heating process, but also using a good plastisizer mixed with the scent as said above will achieve exactly the same thing. The plastisizer is absorbed into the bait all the way to the core of the bait, but of course you lose some scent due to mixing it with plastisizer. Either process you use will hold scent as long as the other but using the cold method, you do have to allow time for the plastisizer to absorb into the bait. Once it is absorbed into the bait, it will not wash off and you are achieving the same thing as if you are adding scent to the hot plastic. It really dosen't matter which process you choose to get the scent into the plastic, as long as the scent is there. It is just a matter of personal preference. I have added scented plastisizer to a bag of baits and the baits actually were dry after 2 or 3 days because they absorbed the plastisizer.

I also used to buy worms like this from California, they were called the California worm (little shark), these worms are actually what got me started making my own. All you do is pour the plastic in the mold and pour the salt on top, because the salt is cool it will not sink into the bottom bait (which is actually the top). I had a plastic container, about 10 four cavity hand-pour molds, and bowl of salt, I used popcorn salt. I would fill the four cavities, put the mold in a plastic container, and pour the salt over it. The salt would cool the plastic on top, I would pour the excess salt off into the plastic container then put the excess salt back into the bowl and repeat the process. You would be suprised with 40 cavities how much production you could actually achieve.

I have bought one from them and I have built one myself. You do not want to buy one of these pots from LureCraft. First off, the pot isn't produced by LureCraft, it is just sold by them. They are very cheaply built, especially for the price they're charging. The gear motors that stir the plastic do not do a very good job, they are cheap and really stir liquid only. Once the plastic gets ready to pour it puts a strain on these motors, the pots are not sealed where the adjetator rod goes into the top of the pot, they continually leak air. I use teflon to try to seal it and the motor wasn't strong enough to turn the adjetator bar, the most I could get was 4 to 5 psi. It continually leaked, so the continuing circulation of air caused innacurate temperature reading. The thermal coupling is attatched to the heat band so you're only getting a read out on the band and not the plastic itself. Light colors were almost impossible to do without yellowing, also the valve itself is very cheap, you continually get freeze off and you have to keep unstopping the valve. They send you a small pair of needle nosed locking pliers to actually operate the valve, the steel pliers on a brass valve is really rough on the valve itself. I actually had to have a heated valve made out of stainless steel to solve some of the problems mentioned above. It took some time, a good welder, and a good machinist but I actually built one for around 900 bucks and it was ten times better than the one I purchased from LureCraft, I have actually shot molds with as much as 20 psi and it is a whole lot safer than the ones LureCraft sells. The air regulator is not rated to withstand the heat that is generated by the pot also, there is several safety issues with the LureCraft pot and I dont want to see anyone hurt and also I recieved no kind of operating instructions whatsoever. I was told that the heat control had a whole lot more functions than what I was using, I called the gentleman that made the pot and he told me he would send me the instructions, its been more than 7 years and after a couple of phone calls I still dont have those instructions. Sorry this is so long, but like I said, I dont want top see anyone hurt.

It will definitely work. There's already machines like this on the market and they have been used for years, but out of common courtesy, I really can't go into any great details, all I can really do is tell you the basics, and besides a Presto pot by itself really couldn't be considered a plastic machine. If you want to thousands per day efficiently, then automation is a must and pretty well standard in the industry.

From what I can gather, you guys are talking about heating a round pot, this sounds very similar to what LureCraft already has and theirs has already proven that this is not the best way to heat plastic. I know, I have owned two. Its impossible to do white or other light colors because you're heating the sides of the pot, even if it is continually adjitated, it does not heat evenly and if you adjitate hot plastic you incorporate air bubbles. So maybe I can add a different track of thinking here, The round pots can be great for feeding a heat exchanger. They can be pressurized and adjitated without incorporating air or lets say incorporating air to the raw material dosent make any difference when thinking along these lines. You can buy painting pots with air adjitators that can act as a resivior for your raw material which can be pressurized to feed a heat exchanger. The heat exchanger must be built in way that the raw plastisol enters from one side and plastisol ready to pour exits from the other, this is basically how all injection presses work. You will need a press to hold the mold to build a machine to produce the volume mentioned in the beginning. One thing to keep in mind is that you want at least half of the plastic leaving the heat exchanger per cycle, this keeps flake and other components suspended, colors stay true, and plastic does not burn. Thinking along these lines will help you build a proper machine but by the time you invest in building your own machine, you can probably buy used equippment from someone like Sims just as cheap or cheaper.

His family has our prayers and condolences.

Baitjunky, if you notice I said for the plastic industry in general. Any time you say injection press and refering to a plastic machine be it hard or soft plastic then you're refering to a machine that holds a mold and opens and closes it. Google plastic injection press and see what you come up with. Like I said not knocking anyone's equippment, I personally think its a neat set up, but when referencing a plastic machine and you refer to it as an injection press, anyone that knows anything about them will be very confused, I guess for the novice you could reference a drill press and a plastic press but they are two very different creatures.

Looks like a great little injection pot, but it is far from being an injection press and before anyone takes offense I am not knocking the product in any way but for the plastic industry in general, the name is mis-leading. An injection press is a machine that holds each plate of a mold, presses it together, injects the plastic, and then opens the mold and then closes it back to start the process over. That is where the name injection "press" comes from, it "presses" the mold together. There is no press with this machine.

You can always ask for plastisol recomendations and you will always get different answers. In my opinion, and note that this is just my opinion, all of the major plastisols are fine. They all have their own place in the market, even though you have ordered some plastisol, I would like to suggest that you call around to everyone and ask for samples and tell us what brand best suits your needs. LureWorks, MF, and LureCraft are all manufactored at their facilities, while Bear's, BaitJunky's, and Do-It's are redistributed products that are formulated to each company's specification. All are great plastisols. When it comes to plastisol its always about what suits YOUR needs, in other words, its always personal preference. So try them all and let us know what you like and why.

If you manufacture any fishing product and sell it, be it retail or wholesale, because you are a manufacturer you are required to pay the 10% Federal Excise Tax. You will have to contact your own state's Department of Revenue to find out about state taxes. Keep in mind, each state is different.

Entrepeneur, the best thing to do, instead of asking advice here, is to contact your local IRS. Explain to them that you did not have knowledge of the Federal Excise Tax and that you would like to get things straight. I had to do something very similar to this, they are not as ruthless as some people make them sound, especially if you are trying to be honest. It is those people that are trying to be dishonest that they have no mercy on. Explain your age and your situation in detail and ask for their help. Our IRS agent actually drove 50 miles, spent a couple of hours with us, helped us build the excise tax into our pricing and explained in detail the things that we needed to do to stay out of trouble. It was as simple as that. If you keep your books up and file your taxes regularly, and pay them on time, then really your only need for a CPA is when it comes time to do your taxes for income tax purposes at the end of the year. Most charge from $300-$500. The IRS services are free, just be honest and upfront and request help. You will be surprised at how nice these folks are. If you don't keep your books up, and you don't pay on time, don't be surprised how nasty these folks can be. Bottom line, is stay current with your bookkeeping.

Wow, this one is really different. From what I can see the baits are automatically demolded, the little copper pipe down at the bottom of the mold is connected to an air regulator so i'm sure this blows the baits out of the mold. I have been told over the years that beetle spins were made with the type of plastisol that you put in the mold and then heat the mold, thats how the stripes and dots are achieved but from the insulation in the picture it looks like there is definatly some kind of heat exchangers involved. I wonder what the production rate an hour is. I do feel that 10,000 bucks is a little much, the machine does look kind of rough but that is expected from used plastic equippment. The concern I would have is that you are very limited on the different bait bodies you can make, lets face it at that price and considering set up costs you would have to sell alot of beetle spins just to break even.

Patrick, It may be a little bit of trouble or more time consuming than anything, But why not cut up into smaller pieces and then take it to the recycling center. I did this one time with a 14ft. fiberglass boat. I cut it up with a reciprocating saw and it fit neatly on the back of my truck. The guys at the recycling center had no idea it was a boat. They actually helped me unload it.

First off, let me clear some things up. A quality large scale production machine will run you somewhere in the neighborhood of $50,000 to $70,000. This piece of equipment has the capabilities of producing 15000-25000 pieces in about 8-10 hours. The cavity count in a mold is just according to the bait. For instance, a straight worm, you may get 60-70 cavities, or a creature bait such as a craw, you may only have 25-35 cavities. The standard production mold is around 30 inches tall. The width depends on the length of the bait. Trout Support is correct in saying that the mold is specifically designed to the injection machine producing the product. Not all machines are the same. It's hard to give an exact cost when it comes to production work without having some information about the particular bait. It's basically based on how many can be produced in an 8 hour period, and the actual weight of the plastic that it takes to fill the mold. Packaging costs will vary, most packers charge per bag of baits at a cost somewhere between .10-.25 per bag. Again this has several variables, it's mainly based on how many packs of baits can be produced per hour. The advantages of having someone else to produce your baits is you have time to do marketing and promoting of product. You don't have employees to worry about as far as production goes. So you basically have time to concentrate on sales. The advantages of producing your own baits are not that great unless you are doing a large amount of baits. Keep in mind when you are running production equipment that most measurements are based on 5 gallons of plastic. You have to have a pretty good knowledge of how plastic flows. Also you have to be pretty mechanically inclined. And you have to have sufficient space for production and storage. Just for a basic setup of 1 machine, you're probably looking at over $100,000 by the time you factor in the machine, the mold or molds, the initial startup material, such as plastic, coloring, flake. Also you're going to have to have a cooling rack, a 7-10 HP air compressor, sufficient electrical capacity to run everything, also sufficient space for scrap storage and you will also need a sufficient cooling system. The starting point for the production of a plastic bait will be to contact a mold maker, no need for a middleman to do any kind of CAD work or drawing, the moldmakers will work directly with you and do this type of work for you. Just remember everyone that you involve in this is another person you're paying. There's really only 2 companies right now producing production molds. Which are Zorn and Basstackle. Mold costs are going to average anywhere from $5,000 to as much as $15,000. It's just according to what all you want in the bait. Keep in mind the mold delegates all aspects of the baits, such as laminates and two colored tails. The machine just basically pushes plastic. I think you can trust these two moldmakers not to reproduce your product for someone else. And they both will be glad to sign legal documents to ensure this. But the bigger companies do have ways around things. So a patent is a must to ensure full protection. Most folks that can't afford to go the patent route make sure that they have sufficient production or inventory so if the bait takes off big, they can meet all demand. This really doesn't protect you from being copied, but it does establish your place in the market, and will build you a loyal customer base. Yamamoto's Senko is a prime example of this. There's a bunch of stick baits on the market, but there are those guys out there that are only going to use Yamamoto's Senko. The bait business is nothing to be taken lightly, it is very very competitive and very cutthroat. Also one thing I forgot to mention, if you do your own production work, you will be responsible for a 10% quarterly Federal Excise tax, but you're paying this tax whether you produce it or whether I produce it, or another injector. And by the way all injection companies have a minimum production run, including me. I've recently had to restructure due to scheduling, so I won't do anything less than a 4 hour (half day) run. All your other injection companies require an 8 hour (full day) run per color. Reason being, if someone comes in in the evening, and sets the equipment up for the next days run, then all the operator does is come to work and produce the product. We are currently the only company I know of that will actually change colors in the middle of the day. Even though this post is long there's still some more details. Feel free to call me and I'll be glad to answer any questions that I can. And I'll even give you names of other injectors besides myself. My contact information is listed on my profile. I hope this helps you have an idea of how the process works.

Capt Mike, LureWorks makes a special coating for this purpose. So you can use your same inserts without any adverse effects. Also, this coating will make the plastic adhere to the insert. With this material you should get very satisfing results. I can't remember the name of it right off just call Bruce at ext. 106, tell him what you need, and he will fix you right up. You may have to leave him a message but he will call you back. Their number is 912-225-4533. This should take care of your problem.

But fishermen do,bluegill is just a name for that color