carolinamike

Finesse13, I think about all plastisol companies will send you a sample probably won't be but 4 to 8 oz., just enough to test, although some send more. This is a good way to figure out what material is right for the baits you're looking to produce. Just be sure to say please and thank you.

Patrick, sounds like you may not have stirred your plastic long enough. I suggest with any plastic out there you stir it well to incorporate everything. I would say that the batch that your working with is probably shot, but there may not be any problem with your Calhoun plastic. It could feel a little tacky coming out of the mold if everything is stirred well, but most of these types of plastisol usually cure out overnight. If it's still not like you think it should be then contact Bear, if you can't get him by phone, then email him. I hear he's been having a few health issues lately. Also I used Lurecraft plastic by the drum for 8 years, never once after hundreds of gallons did I ever have a sticky bait when the plastisol was stirred well. And by the way, I've never seen anything posted or heard anyone say anything about Lureworks plastisol being sticky either. And the price is great.

SHK is absolutely right. A good plastisol is a personal preference only. Start out by asking for samples. Also question each supplier thoroughly on their experience with international shipping. Companies that have been in the industry a long time will be more experienced with the different ways to ship and one might be more economical than the other. The samples may be free but you may have to pay for the shipping. From experience I can tell you that Lureworks makes a very good economical product and are one of the largest plastisol suppliers on the market and have been around for a long time. But some people have had trouble with it and some have not. Also I used Lurecraft for a long time too. It's a very good product. You'll find some settling on the bottom of this product, but it incorporates real easily when stirred well. Just remember to stir it everytime right before you use it. I've also tried MF, there's no settling on the bottom, but I don't particularly care for the fumes that come off of it. A very good ventilation system is a must if you're going to use the MF products that are out there, also they're rather expensive. I've also tried Calhoun's, but it was probably 3 or 4 years ago. It was ok, I didn't particularly like the smell of the finished product and when demolding the baits, they felt sticky. This seemed to go away after curing overnight. This is all the advice I can give from my personal experience. I have used Chemionics but it seemed to me to be basically the same as Calhoun's, as well as Marchem. As you can see at some time or another, I've tried all of them. But keep in mind other people have used these same products without any of the issues that I had. In my opinion, samples and testing would be the best way to go.

One other word of advice too, if you're making a bait that's similar to a bait that is on the market and has a patent, before you have a mold made, get a copy of the patent. If it is a design function patent the main points of the baits will keep coming up all through the patent. Sometimes they can be almost impossible for the regular guy to read, but if you look over them and read over them pretty good, you can get an idea of the main things that are specified about the bait. The reason I'm telling you this is to tell you about my mistake. I made jig trailers for years, sold them on the open market. They were considerably different than Zoom's but they did have a ridge on the outside edge of the tails of the trailer. Remember I sold these for years on the open market. As soon as I spent $12000.00 having two molds made I received one of those sweet letters from Zoom's attorney informing me that the ridge on the tails of a jig trailer belongs to Zoom Bait Co. After some costs and a lot of aggravation, I found out that I was unknowingly guilty of patent infringement. I have two brand new production molds, one which has never had a bait made off of it, on the shelf in my shop and have been there for 3 years. This is an example of how the business works. Be careful, mistakes can be expensive.

Cormorant, I think hand injecting would probably up your production considerably. I understand what you're saying about the molds, but good aluminum molds last forever. Maybe need cleaning and repolishing every now and again, but that's about it as far as maintenance goes. There's some guys on TU that do a lot of production just by hand injection alone. With a little practice, laminates probably wouldn't be any trouble either. This is basically the route that I took before I bought my machines. I used to do a small crappie bait that had a reservoir at the top of the mold cavity. You would fill the reservoir with plastic and then take an aluminum plunger and actually manually push the plastic into the cavity of the mold. I made thousands this way. When I got my first multi-cavity mold I thought I was somebody. It turned out 25 a shot. The same baits now I make 201 every 30 seconds. Just remember if you use multi-cavity molds when you do your hand injection, they will take longer to cool than single cavity molds. It's just because you're turning them over so fast. SHK, I'm glad to hear ol' Bear got the salt problem completely figured out. I've seen his pump system, I've always wondered about flushing the system to go to a new color and how much material it takes to do this, some colors that I do can take up to 5 gallons to really clear it out of the plumbing and the pumps. Were you looking at Zorn's upright machine or the proto-shooter? A pneumatic machine like my small one in my opinion is one of the best machines Ray has ever produced. After we set it up with the new valves and bought a couple of bigger heat exchangers, it's turned out to be a great production machine. We have the new style pumps on the bigger hydraulic machine and they are great. The actual material cavity of the pump is very small so most colors can be flushed with a gallon or two of plastic. This saves on raw materials. When it comes to injection equipment, Zorn is definitely top of the line. By the way, I have tried to call Bear recently and hadn't been able to get in touch with him. Left him a message and haven't heard from him either. I hope he's doing well. A friend of mine that only lives about 20 minutes away bought one of Bear's machines but me or Bear neither one have heard from him since he bought it, so I really haven't got to hear a lot of feedback about the machine from the folks that have bought one. I seen some of the baits it made and it was very impressive.

Cormorant, first off you need to consider exactly what your needs are and where would be the best place to put your money. SHK and Frank are right, Jacobs probably makes the most economical single color machine on the market right now. Bear's Baits also makes a machine that will do laminates, but I think at one time they were having trouble trying to pump salt. So this is something to keep in mind if you run a lot of salt in your baits. Lureworks has been working on a machine now for about 2 years, I do know a little more about this machine than I do about the others. Salt will absolutely be no problem in this machine, it will do solid colors, laminates and pulse laminates. Also this machine if full of safety devices to make it very user friendly. The cost will probably be double the cost of Bear's machine, but I think it's going to be a very good alternative to a Zorn machine, which is the best on the market right now. The only thing about a Zorn machine is you have to keep in mind the smallest amount of plastic you'll be able to work with is 5 gallons. You could have large scale production molds made for your product and have someone else to produce your product. My company along with several others provide these services, but keep in mind large scale production molds are also expensive. If you're going to do this right, there is no cheap way to go about this. The main thing is don't move too big too fast. This mistake is so easy to make, when you start trying to up your production. There's several guys on TU that make real good production doing hand injecting. The trick here is to have enough molds to keep production going. For instance if you had 10 molds, by the time you inject all 10 molds, you should be able to open up your first mold, demold a bait and reshoot it and repeat the cycle. This will definitely up your production, you just keep the rotation going until you get what you need. You can build a cooling table to lay your molds on because they will build up heat in a continuous rotation and too much heat will delay your production if you have to sit and wait on the baits to cool. SHK, when you ask for your Zorn quote be sure and tell Ray that you want the new type valves and the new type pumps. It'll add a little more expense to the machine, but it is very well worth it, and if you're going to spend over $30,000 what's another couple of thousand to make sure that you get the best. Also keep in mind, that there's only a handful of large injectors out there. It's a shame to say, but take my word for it, if you ever want to sell your machine unless you know an individual that's just dying to go into the plastic business, the resell value is only around $5000.00. Now don't get me wrong the machine is worth a whole lot more than that, but being the size of the market and the ones that are in business have been there a long time, they know that not everyone wants to purchase these machines. So they take advantage of you. Search the market for a used Zorn machine, I'm not sure if they're out there but it would be worth the look. Also keep in mind there is a huge learning curve with these machines. They can be temperamental. I have two, a hydraulic and a pneumatic. The hydraulic is a 3 color machine and the pneumatic is a 2 color machine. Even though they're both made basically the same, and the hydraulic machine I specified exactly how I wanted this machine set up and even though they're both set up the same, they are two different ladies with different personalities. You must be mechanically inclined and you must have a good knowledge of what plastic will and won't do. When I first started, I had no idea, exactly what I was getting into, when you go from hand pouring 20 oz to 2 gallons to injecting 5-10 gallons, mistakes are very costly. I make at least one $500 mistake every year. So instead of ordering your flake by the ounces you'll be ordering your flake by the 10 pounds. And plastic by the drums. The machine in only the starting cost. To set your facility up for the machine, to get the starting supplies for the machines is very very expensive, and this does not even consider the cost of the molds. With those costs, cheap is around $4000.00. Average is between $5000-$6000, and then if you want hook slots, two colored tails, or cross over laminates, your probably talking between $8000 and $10000 per mold. I just don't want you guys to do like I did, I was so keen in getting the machine that I did not take any of these things into consideration. My whole intention was to use my personal molds and produce my product only, by the time I got set up, and all supplies bought there was absolutely no money left for marketing. If I would have stuck to my plan, I would be out of business now. Now keep in mind, my first investment was a little more than $80,000.00 and I had nothing left for marketing, which is very very expensive in the fishing industry. So this will give you guys a little bit to think about. If any of you guys want to talk more about the high end production side of the business, you know I'll help you if I can. If someone needs to call me, PM me and I'll give you a couple of phone numbers. This industry is so hard and can be so cutthroat, if I can give any advice, I'll be glad to try to help you out.

Bribass, yeah that Friday thing does get aggravateful. I seem to always run out of what I need real late Thursday afternoon. I wish I could take Fridays off or maybe Saturdays or possibly Sundays. Bruce will get you straightened out for sure. Chewy, there again unnecessary comments. No one said they knew what plastic hardener was, why don't you enlighten us. Tell us what you know about plastic hardener, softener, PVC resins and plasticizers. That would be helpful to everyone on the forum. Now as far as your personal attacks go, let's look at your quote, and oh by the way, it was real easy to know who's plastic you were using before you said it. Really looks bad on his company too. You to guys just got a hard on for what you think is right and everyone else can suck it attitude. I still like to read and learn from most of these post but yours are mostly SOS. Have you ever made the plastics your self or seen how it was done? First off, I did not say anything negative about anyone's plastisol. So no one said anyone else can suck it. So there again a completely unnecessary comment. Then to personally attack my post, so you've sat down and read all of my posts on TU? Explain to me how this wasn't personal. And then to ask have I ever made plastic, and then to be a smart ass when I answer your question, you wanted to know if I had ever made plastic and seen how it was done, I think I was very informative. Now you've gone to company bashing instead of product bashing. So what you want people that read TU to believe is it's not possible to get a refund. Is that a fair comment to make? Are you giving correct information? Are you being helpful in your comments? The you guys have a hard on for this stuff let us all know who's plastisol your using. I talked as much about LC's plastic as I did Lureworks. You're not the first one to jump in on this subject, it's just a shame that this is the way Jason promotes his product. It seems like that most of the people that have something to say bad about Lureworks are using Caney Creek, and by the way, I'm not saying anything bad about Jason or his plastisol personally. I am just noticing that it always seems to be his customers that jump in and bad mouth Lureworks plastic anytime they get a chance. Jerry's probably going to lock this one guys. Chewy it seems like you're determined to make this a bashing thread. Maybe Jerry will contact you and explain a little bit on how we like to make productive comments and not bashing comments. If you've tried to get a refund from Lureworks and it didn't work out, let us know. Why don't you start your own thread on how much you like Caney Creek plastic? Some people just can't afford it. And by the way I do use a lot of plastic fast, but being that we run over 200 colors, there's always plastisol left to settle in a drum around here somewhere or another. Some colors don't get used but once or twice a year. So I have just as much settling as anyone else. If I didn't know what I was talking about, I wouldn't have posted. And I take it back, I don't believe I would be willing to help you, because you don't seem to be too helpful yourself.

youthinthewild, I think I've talked with you or someone with your organization already. I think I was on the phone with you when my phone died. PM me also, I'm still willing to help you guys out. I've just been so busy, sorry for not contacting you back.

Chewy, I did take a little of your advice, I needed to talk to Bruce anyway. So I called up Lureworks. I think Bruce is going to PM Bribass. BBK, Bruce said get in touch with him and he would take care of things for you. Another example of a fine outstanding company who when kept informed are always glad to help out in a situation. Chewy I think you've taken some of this personal, if you bought some Lureworks plastisol and are not happy with it, contact them. You had to contact them to order it and as far as the PVC falling out, the material is a mixture of PVC resins and other chemicals that have settled at the bottom of the product. Some of it is hardener. But to portray plastisols that have settling in the bottom as a bad product is not fair. It seems that you're wanting this to move down the road as a product bashing thread. That is not how things are done on TU, and then to pop off with the personal attack about me making plastic, let's me know you're kind of new to the forum too. I'm the largest soft plastic producer in North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia. All I do for a living is make plastic fishing baits. There's seven barrels of Lureworks plastisol out in the driveway right now and before I was doing it on this scale, I bought LC's plastic by the drum for at least seven years. So I think I have a right to speak with a little bit of authority on this subject. I did not mean anything as a personal attack toward you, my post was an informative post about the two plastisols that have settling. Lureworks plastisol, LC's plastisol has settling and you don't like it. We all understand it, that's the reason these two are not your preference. Some people don't like the smell of MF, some people don't like the costs of the other MF products that are out, some people don't like Calhoun's, that's just the way it goes with plastisol. Please stick to giving us good informative information on what happens with your experiences and why you have concerns, such as Bribass did. This post was not started or I assumed it was not started as a product bashing post, it was started to find out some information about what's happening with this particular plastisol. Granted the pictures could be sent to Lureworks just as easy as they can be put on TU, but Bribass did not word this in a bashing manner whatsoever. He simply stated his concerns, and I'm sure by now that he's already found out some information about his product and he'll be able to post on how well the company took care of his problem. This is what TU's about, helping each other and putting productive posts up that can give good information. I did not mean for you to feel personally attacked, but I do feel like some of your comments were very unnecessary. Keep in mind that the way you do things is not necessarily wrong or right, it's just what you have a personal preference for. Right now, in Frank's situation, money is at the utmost importance. Just like it is with 90% of the country these days. And by the way thanks for putting in the good word Frank, anything I can ever do let me know. And Chewy the same goes for you buddy, if you'll check around you'll see I help anybody I can if possible.

Bribass, was that medium, soft or hard? I've never had any trouble with that material incorporating into the plastic, but I always stir. Also, Lowe's and Home Depot sells a paint stirrer that works great for a 5 gallon bucket. The first one I bought lasted 6 years. All you need is a drill. Works very well stirring plastisol. Chewy, apparently you're not familiar with several different plastisols. You're right, it's different from MF. MF uses a different plasticizer. If you ever saw LC's you would freak out. I've actually scraped the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket full and it be so hard packed that the material actually looked dry. But I used LC for years and never had any problems with it whatsoever. And I'll never fall for the phthalate free gimmick, considering that all flexible plastic wrap and all flexible plastic tubing contains and puts off phthalates. So that meat in the grocery store and that IV bag and that IV tube have me more concerned than a fishing worm. And by the way, PVC won't fall out of the material. The things I like best about Lureworks plastisol, is there's no harsh fumes, and only an average amount of smoke. I think the smell is very good, the curing time and the consistency of the product is another thing that makes it a bargain. And the thing about these guys is they can specially formulate if need be. Unlike some of the other component companies that don't have super knowledgable fellows like Bruce and Don, dang Bruce has probably forgotten more about plastic than I'll ever know, no matter what problem I run into, one of these guys has always been able to help me out and not just about plastisol either, their vast knowledge covers the whole fishing industry. And keep in mind, these guys are manufacturers as well as distributors. You ought to give them a try, yes some people find their product a little more challenging to work with, but I think Frank's got it figured out and so have several others. The secret here is a slower, lower cook time than some of the other plastisols. But if you're using a Lee pot or a Presto pot, you can treat it the same as any other. Frank, I've had some of the same material at the bottom of the barrel before, you got to remember when I mix a color I usually do it 10 gallons at a time. So sometimes when I finish a run there's only 1 or 2 gallons left in the drum. After it's set a couple of days I have tilted a drum before and that material plus all flake and even some of the coloring pigment will be on the bottom of the drum. It always incorporates well. And you made a good point too Frank, I've let some of my customers feel some of the other plastics and everyone really likes the Lureworks. It's soft and durable.

Scaledriver, there's always three things to keep in mind when you're doing injection. Time, temperature and pressure. Sounds like you've only got one of these right. Most of the time, dents are formed from not enough pressure, held long enough for the bait to cool down completely in the mold, on some thicker bodied baits you just have to hold constant pressure a little longer than you normally would. If you're still having the same trouble after you try this, then it's a shrinkage issue. The softer the plastic the more shrinkage you get. So, you may need to go to a firmer formula. One of these things should take care of your issues. Whether you use salt or not you can still have this problem, if your plastic is too soft or if you let the pressure off before the center of the bait has time to cool.

Guys it looks like from what I've read, that they're patenting something that's already on the market. Maybe not exactly like what is on the market, but very close. Then if the patent holds up, it's possible they could go after these people that already have a similar product on the market. Now some of you are going to say that if they're on the market, then they're grandfathered in and there's nothing that can really be done to them, this is true, but they can still send out those aggravating cease and desist letters and can end up costing money trying to find out whether or not for sure if you are infringing. I hate to say it but it's been done before in this business. A good example of this a gentleman by the name of Ernest Langley created a jig called a mop jig. Ernest did this many many years ago when textiles was still a thriving industry in the South. There were several operating plants near him so he was able to get a supply of rubber strands that was used for making the elastic in underwear. He started tying jigs with this large rubber and the mop jig was born. Many moons later a company comes out with the mop jig, I will not name them, most everybody knows who it is. It just so happened the two gentlemen that ran this company, their father contacted Mr. Langley years and years ago and asked him if he would show him how to make the mop jig. Mr. Langley would not so now the guy's sons have come out with their own copy, they copyrighted the name of the bait(mop jig), and Mr. Langley starts receiving letters from lawyers. Yes he is the originator but he was not the first one to the copyright office. He actually had to change the name of his product or either go through the horrendous expense and trouble to prove that he'd been around longer than these guys. After researching, it was really not worth the expense. All he would be able to do was use the name mop jig but he still doesn't own the name mop jig, so to spend the amount of money he was going to have to spend it just was not worth it. Dave's right though from what I've read of the patent, a lot of these things are already out on the market. There was a swim bait style bait that was listed, I believe it was figure 36, it has little slits just before the tail to give it more action, I've been producing a swim bait of this type for a company in Germany for a couple of years now. Patents are funny things, you have to be careful cause there's no jury involved in a patent procedure, it's totally left up to a judge. So sometimes it's not worth the risk to fool with.

Dakotakole, try heating your plastisol before you add your salt. If when you add your salt, it starts bubbling, then Maurizio is right, it is the moisture in the salt that's causing your bubbles. This is a common problem. Just because you can't see the moisture does not mean that it's not in the salt. An easy way to solve this problem is to put your salt on a baking pan put it in the oven for an hour or so on 150-200 degrees and dry it very well. If your salt clumps up when heating, then you definitely have moisture in it. Use a thin mesh bag full of rice to keep in your salt container to help keep the moisture down, but you may still have to dry it out before you use it. Let us all know how this works out for you. If this doesn't work, there's enough guys on here that will help you get over this hurdle and get your pouring where you'd like it to be.

Guys I think you're way off in trying to replicate this formula because the stretchy plastic is not liquid. It is a hopper fed material that has to be extruded under extremely high pressures. The reason being this material loses heat very quickly. Therefore, products cannot be produced in the same manner as regular plastisol. Also this material and process is patented out the butt and the folks that do this are very very protective of their product. So keep that in mind when you're posting about stretchy plastic on the forum. But remember this product cannot be poured.

DJS, I don't quite understand what you're talking about. I understand the microbubble trouble that some people have had with Lureworks, but exactly what do you mean by "degrading PVC resin"? Does your pot pour from the bottom? I heat this plastisol all the time in a Lee pot and yes if I do heat it real fast then I do get the bubbles too, but they are bubbles, full of air, that float to the top, which I can easily take a spoon and dip off. But I usually don't since my Lee pot pours from the bottom. Now if I stir them up and incorporate them throughout the plastic, then yes I would have the same problem you're having. And if you're only using 325 degrees to heat your material, then there should be no degrading whatsoever. For 325 degrees is about the minimum of heat you need for the plastisol to form correctly. Since this microbubble thing came up a while back, I've done a lot of experimenting and I've about figured out that this material is not made for speed heating in open containers of any type. But you're the first person I know of that's having trouble from a Presto Pot. If you're using your agitator, leave your agitator off while your material is heating. You can stir it occaisionally by hand until you get heated up. Then skim your bubbles off the top and turn on your agitator. But I would really like to know what you mean by degrading. If you're talking about your plastic yellowing, then you need to check the actual temperature of your plastic. I've never seen plastic yellow at 325 degrees. Just because the dial is set on 325 does not mean that the plastic itself is 325 degrees. Most pots if working by a thermostat, or a thermocoupling, will call for the pot to turn on wide open until it reaches a point of 325 degrees. Maybe you need to start off with your temperature lower and gradually turn it up after a few minutes goes by. Lureworks plastisol is a very good plastisol especially for the money, But it does not do well under speed heating. I also sell a lot of runners, they are all Lureworks plastisol that has not been de-aired. And I've never had a complaint about microbubbles in them. But when I do heat up fast in the microwave, after I let the container sit for a few minutes, the bubbles are always at the top because they are full of air and are easily skimmed off. I know of a couple of people that are bulk heating in the microwave, letting the material set up and then reheating. They seem to be having very good success doing it this way. If I were you, I would put my colored plastisol in my Presto pot, and when it's ready to pour, then add the rest of your components (flake and salt). Then turn on the agitator. You should see a whole lot better results. If none of this works, PM me, I think I can help you work through this problem.

call spike it, I think they have it.

Well folks we've just finished our biggest order ever. All of it was 2 colored laminates on a shad type bait. Get this, 225,316 pieces ended up being the total number of baits completed. Even with the equipment we've got, this turned out to be a massive order for a family run business. Basically 3 people did all the work. It's been a good learning experience though, business wise and work wise. It took us longer than what it should have, but for 3 people I think we did pretty good. Time to complete was probably about 6 months. This was mainly broken down into part-time runs also and not full time runs. These baits will be shipped overseas and should be a year's supply for this customer. It should run faster next time, because all the color matching and the learning of the mold won't be a hinderance. Hopefully, it will be straightforward next time. But truthfully guys, I didn't think we would ever get this one done. Now I have 60 14x14x14 boxes that average 42lbs each sitting in the middle of my living room, waiting to hear from the shipper. Be careful what you wish for, you might get it and have to work your butt off.

Also you need to keep in mind water based scents cannot be cooked into the plastic.

Patrick, where are you at in NC? Sounds like we do the same kind of fishing. The only flat water I've fished in the last 3 years is farm ponds. But me and my little kayak have covered a lot of water. I used to be big on crawfish scent and used it in the same applications that you're using, but truthfully over the years, I can't say that it's made that much of a difference. I do like to use a little worm oil with some scent to it, but it's mainly because I end up getting water in my bait bag. I think if they're hungry and you put it in front of them, they're going to eat it, smell or no smell.

swedes, if you're hand injecting them don't break the sprue off the end of the worm, and hang the worms overnight by the sprue. All the large companies hang their baits to cure them. A piece of string and a clothes hanger ought to do you good. If you're doing hand pours and don't have a sprue on the end of the bait, just demold the worms and put them in a cold water bath for about 15 minutes. Should do the trick.

This is my list from personal experiences only. This is my results from trying different plastics. We're all the time getting plastic companies wanting us to switch over to their products, so I've had several chances to try different plastics. If I have not tried it, I will not name it, but the ones that I have tried, this was my personal results. Remember, I'm using heat exchangers and this is a sealed system. The only emissions I get is from the venting of the mold as the plastic fills the cavities. M-F - customer sent 10 gallons of saltwater plastic to make his baits. My findings were the same as SHK, the fumes were absolutely terrible. I have a 14 inch exhaust fan in a 20x20 space, it gave me and my wife both a headache and messed with our sinuses for a couple of days. As far as the plastic itself, it was not tacky at all when I demolded it and done very well with the colors that I was using. But I did have an issue with the fumes. Chemionics - was decent enough but was tacky when demolded which seemed to diminish after curing 24 hours but also had a plastic smell to the baits. Seemed to be stronger than others. Calhoun's - trouble here with this plastic (to me), is nonconsistency. Some people use it and love it and some people have had bad experiences. I believe it has some to do with the quality of the components. I tried 2 samples. This is another one that seems to me to have a strong plastic odor and it was also tacky when demolded, which also seemed to diminish after a 24 hour cure. I have talked to a couple of people who have received bad batches. LC - This is the plastic I started out with. It does very well in a hand pour situation, but the large amount of hard pack was an issue in my application. The smell seems to be fine and the baits were never tacky when demolded. My only experience with LC's plastic is doing hand pours and hand injections and this was 5 years ago, so I don't know if anything's changed since. Marchem - the rep came and we ran some samples that he brought. They run well but they were a little tacky when demolded and a pretty strong plastic smell also. Lureworks - this is the plastic that I currently use and have been using for several years. I use it both in the machine and hand injecting. I like this plastic, it has always been a consistent product and I've never had any problems. I probably use 50 drums a year or more. It's not tacky when demolded and the smell seems to be at a minimum. In the applications in which I use this plastic I have no problems, but others have had issues. The bottom line is you guys, call these companies up ask for small samples. Try them out and find your personal preference because basically that's what it boils down to. I've never met anyone that is happy with every plastic that is on the market, and that's just the facts. Figure out the one you like best and you've found the best plastisol.

Patrick, I'm about 8 miles west of Shelby. A lot of our plastic is stored in an open garage with no heating or cooling. Last year I think it got down to 9 degrees and we've had no trouble at all. My coloring is the same way. Heat and cold seems not to bother these materials or at least the climate in our area anyway. It's the moisture you have to watch out for.

diemai, thanks for your post. You have answered a question that I have been wondering about for some time now. I'm doing some work for a company in Germany and part of the name of his bait is Zander. Besides the Zander, what other fish do you guys target, I know pike is one. Real nice fish by the way. When I saw you reeling it in, I thought it was a walleye. Great job, congratulations!

Thanks so much gang. It's like I say TU folks are the best!

MonteSS, if you're looking for the lighter brown pumpkin, then order Carolina pumpkin from Lureworks. The regular pumpkin is a darker brown. They also have a killer green pumpkin that's consisten every time you buy it. Their colors don't change from one bottle to another.