carolinamike

Gon2long you are right, I've got some molds with slide bars that have 90 cavities in them. Davemc1, you are right about the actuators but they are pneumatic, not electric. To do hand pours with slide bars would be a little challenging, speed would be the main factor. On the big molds you're looking at a two second injection time with very high pressure for the tail, to get a good tail bond you would have to shoot two colors in three seconds. Shoot the tail, move the slide bar, and shoot the body. It would definatly take alot of practice but I do think it could be done.

Very observant bflp, and Mark you got two out of five flake colors.

This is probably going to bring a bunch of different comments, but I was the originator of the bluegill color. It originated with a company that I produce for in Texas and the original base color is not smoke, the knock-off guys trying to copy it used the smoke color. I really can't tell you the base color but I will say that there are five different colors of flake involved, Some .025 and some .035. To see the original color go to hagstornadobaits.com. This was the original bluegill color of this type. It does take a whole lot of flake, the light reflecting between the different colors is what makes the plastic look smoke.

I noticed that you left out LureWorks, they will be glad to give you a free sample.

Caney Creek's plastisol is a poly one product. I know when Baitjunky first started out it was Calhoun's product but I'm not sure if it still is or not. It really dosen't matter whose it is because they have been specifically formulated for these companies.

If you want a higher quality heat cartridge, then contact thermal corporation. They have much higher quality heating cartridges and bands than McMaster carr or Grainger. They also do custom work since they are an actual manufactorer, but of course with higher quality comes a little higher price.

Do you mean Dallas Davis?

Keep in mind when heating any type of plastisol in a microwave, low and slow is the key to a quality product. If you have a temperature setting on your microwave then you might consider turning it down some. Better to heat a few seconds longer then to waste product.

aguitars, give us a little more information. Why did you heat it before adding your flake to begin with? Were you heating one solid chunk, do you have any idea what the temperature was? How were you heating your plastic? This will help us evaluate what your problem is.

I agree with you Frank, for 450 bucks difference I think I could lose a little bit of time dealing with a few bubbles. And you are absolutley right, most of my molds turnover about every two minutes and as far as introducing air goes, my plastisol is stirred continuously with a re-cirrculating pump dumping it back into the drum continuously and also my plastisol is not de-airred. Most of the time bubbles are introduced when the plastisol is half way cooked or when it is vigorously stirred when ready to pour. Travis, I'm not sure what you mean when you say "volatile components are cooked off". I don't think plastisol works that way. I dont think one component leaves while another stays. As far as dipping goes, LW makes a formula that is specifically designed for dipping that stays clear after 8 hours of continual heating. For production work this seems to be the ideal time and money saver. It really dosn't make a lot of sense to heat plastic over and over in microwave for dipping purposes and Frank is also correct when he mentioned the harder the formula, the faster it yellows.

I've kind of noticed a trend, it seems the more expirienced people are not having much of an issue with the bubbles. Afterall, they are air bubbles which rise to the top after a couple of minutes and are easily scooped off and its only microwave users that talk about a bubble issue with LureWorks plastisol. I use a microwave to heat my plastisol when testing for moisture, in my tests I realy dont have an issue with the micro bubbles, if there is moisture contamination the bubles are always very large, no where near small enough to consider micro. A good plastisol at a good price stays clear, no bad smell or fumes, no sticky feeling, and this company has more formulas than anyone on the market.

D&J does not make molds, they are an injection company. A lot of injection companies will tell you they make molds when in fact they use people like Zorn and Bass Tackle, all they do is act as a middle man and of course they get a cut of your hard earned money. There is no need for a middle man or a mold designer, you work directly with the mold making companies. There was a company that made molds whose name was D&L but they are no longer in business. Zorn and Bass tackle are about your only choices for soft plastic production molds. High Rock molds is also looking to venture into the production mold business.

Curt, I am not recieving any notifications at all through my email.

Smallmouth, you taking exception to my comment is fine with me if that's what you choose to do. But I think in my last post that I clarified my point of view. You yourself just admitted in your last post that you started out by giving baits away, you just made the mistake of giving away too many. Like I stated earlier, I'm not talking about an enormous amount of product, and I was mainly referencing that the giving of samples is a standard practice in this industry, especially with new products, new colors and new companies. Anyone with a little bit of business knowledge and common sense should have sense enough to know not to give away more than they can actually afford, and also to be very cautious and selective in whom they are distributing their baits to. The larger you are, sometimes, the more you find this to be a necessity. In my case, I have private label molds for other companies to market under their names. They're not just supposed to take my word on what the products are, what they look like and feel like, but there is a genuine need for them to actually see and hold the product. This is what I find necessary for my business. Other people may want to go about it in a different direction, this is where they find what works best for them. I merely stated "you guys" so as to not point my opinion towards any one certain person because some folks just like to argue pointlessly. As stated in my last post, each individual has to find their niche and figure out what works best for them.

prochallenger, I was merely stating that free samples are definitely a part of this industry as a whole. I've never been to a large fishing show where there wasn't as least one or two companies giving samples of their product. Yes these were the larger companies, but even most of your small companies realize that they have a sellable product by having a few friends or family fish with their baits, which are almost never purchased. I myself probably send out over 100 sample packs a year, which truthfully almost never brings me anything back. But every once in awhile it does get me that one customer that spends $15,000 a year with me. So whether I like it or not, samples are a part of this industry as a whole. But for the smaller folks like myself, it's all about finding the niche and figuring out what works best for you. I think we both know this is the nature of the plastic business.

A Zorn machine is capable of producing 15 to 30 thousand pieces per 8 hour period, its according to the cavity count in the mold. With the average production mold being 30" tall, the width of the mold is determined by the length of the bait, for example, if you have a 4" worm you will have a center sprue(runner) a worm on each side of the runner and then space for venting, so you are probably looking at somewhere around 12" wide lets say with an average of 40 cavities this mold will be producing 40 worms every minute and a half. The cost of a pneumatic 2 color production machine is probably around 50,000 dollars complete, a hydrolic 2 color machine is somewhere in the nieghboorhood of 65-70 thousand. You can find used equippment but most used Zorn machines are bought up fairly quick. Keep in mind you will need at least a 10 horse power air compressor, adequete enough operating space, and unlike hand pours that deal in ounces you will be dealing with gallons.

You guys make it sound like someone is giving away a substantial amount of product. Sure, I get my share every year of people asking for sponsers for the purpose of recieving free baits with very little in return, but this is not what i'm speaking of. So you have never had a buddy that you give a pack of baits or a couple of baits of a new color or new style just to try out and see how they like it? Come on now, I think everyone that has made baits has done this at sometime or another. We're definatly not talking about giving a load of baits away, but I dont know anyone at sometime or another who hasn't shared some baits with friends at no cost.

Little man, how many pieces are you talking? 500 packs with 10 per pack of course is 5000 pieces, which is around a half days run for most baits. Almost all of your large injectors require a full days run. Also, let me advise you about large chain stores, some have a fining system, where they actually fine you for not delivering product on time, for not sending invoices on time, and other stipulations. Also, you will need a production mold, which could run you from $4000-$10,000 according to the size of the bait and whether or not you need solid colors, laminate, or two color(body one color, tail different color). These are all variables to take into consideration. So I would suggest that a valid contract is a must. Also, some companies require half the money up front to start production, and some ask for all the money up front to get started. This just shows them that you're willing to make the commitment and to build a trusting customer relationship. It's not that they don't trust you, it's just standard practice in this business. I know for sure, that you will have to pay half for the production mold up front, before they will start making your mold. If I can be of service, you're more than welcome to PM me. Mike Also, I'm sending you a PM about someone who does large volume production in Canada.

Yeah you're right, with 20 different formulas its just natural to expect different prices. The thing about these folks is as large as they are they are still very curtious and hand pour friendly, most of the other large companies want to sell by the drum with 5 gallon being the least amount they will sell or either there is a middle man involved. LW is manufactorer direct, there are other companies that manufactor their own and target, specifically, the hand pour folks. LW is the main supplier for most of your large bait manufactorers, and its really nice that they still have a heart for the little guy as well. You have to admit, that a plastic that stays hot for 8 to 13 hours is pretty impressive.

Ive talked to Bruce and I know its been tested for at least 12 hours, so 13 dosen't sound unreasonable. Its been a while since I have checked prices on plastisol but the last I checked price per pound, lureworks was the cheapest. More expensive dose not necesarily mean better when it comes to plastisol but every expirienced person understands it boils down to a personal preferance but there must not be too much wrong with it considering companies like Pure fishing(berkley) purchase it by the tanker load.

For the price its hard to beat lureworks plastisol. Some people have a micro bubble problem while others dont. I have noticed a couple of posts here lately about yellowing plastic. This year at Icast lureworks had on display a plastic that they kept heated for over 8 hours with no discoloring, it is specially formulated for things like doing a clear coat dip. A couple of people on the forum was there and seen it but I have yet to see anyone post about it.

Yeah Al I knew the name was protected and I agree with you 100%. Theres never been a more simpler and successful bait as the senko.

Al, what grounds did GY have considering that there is no patent on the bait? I can't remember for the life of me ever seeing anyone post about recieveing a letter about the senko. By far I'm not saying that it didn't happen, I'm just saying I can't remember ever seeing anything posted about it. At the classic the pro was actually bragging on how much the bait had been knocked off, I'm not trying to argue I'm just wondering how anyone as smart as GY would send out letters about a bait that has no legal protection, of course this is one of those baits that didn't need it because he makes his own product so he was pretty well able to keep up with the demand and flood the market.

I'm with big will, out of all the generic molds to come out with, I just don't see the attraction for another stick bait. But Bill you're right, most people want as close to the original as they can get. And it could have been that all the mess with the Mad Dad craw and the Zoom patent, maybe they just didn't want any trouble from GY.

Guys I dont think Yamamoto has anything to do with it. The reason I say this is 5 years ago I was at the bassmasters classic and the GY pro was doing a demonstration of the senko at the tank and started out his demonstration by saying "and now I would like to introduce the most reproduced bait on the market". He turned knocking off of his product into product promotion, a very classy move if you ask me.