carolinamike

I'm not saying that several people's not having a bubble problem, I think that's well been established, but it's also been established that some people aren't having any problems. Everyone understands, or I think they do, that this is a very large company that has decided to pay attention to the hand pour folks. They've never once said that they have all the kinks worked out of everything to make it hand pour friendly, matter of fact, I don't know if they've ever posted at all. But I do think it would be more constructive and more beneficial to all the hand pour folks out there to communicate and help come up with a good hand pour product at a decent price. Let's face it, anyone can sit and talk about how a product doesn't perform the way they want it to, but it's not everyday that you have a chance to communicate direct in helping develop what you want. If you're having trouble with it, at least be a stand up person and communicate with the folks, it can really go a long way in pin pointing any problems going on with the products. After all, this forum is about helping each other, and I don't think there's anything that specifies that it's someone that advertises or is a member of the forum, especially when the end results helps everyone.

I talked with Bruce at Lureworks the other day he said not one person has personally contacted him to discuss the problem with their plastisol. Yes he does monitor the website some but you have some people that have microbubbles and some people that don't. Then some people only have an issue when they use it only in the microwave, then some people are mixing it. So from just reading the forum, it seems to me that it would be hard for them to pinpoint a problem. Keep in mind guys, these folks are really new to the hand pour side of things, so it seems to me that communication is going to go a long ways in producing a hand pour user friendly product. I think some of you guys that have been posting about your problems should at least make a personal phone call to see if there's anything that can be done to help you out. It's hard to figure whether this one's widespread or it's just a person to person problem. I'm sure any feedback you'd be willing to give to be constructive in helping to produce a good product, these guys would be more than happy to hear it.

Jim, Lureworks has it but it's in the hex shape. I don't think I've ever any square in the .40.

Munkin, you're lucky, the first time it happened to me, I immediately took the other hand and tried to wipe it off and wouldn't you know it two burnt hands instead of one. If you can pour wearing gloves then you definitely need to. That's one thing I can say for the Lee pots, they're real temperamental to operate, but you don't have much plastic coming out so burns are kept to a minimum. When it happened to me, I was using a big pot with about 5 lbs of pressure behind it. It all happened so fast I didn't even have time to think, but I bet you were like me, it didn't take long to figure out it was hot did it? Keep it clean and dry and I hope you heal up soon.

Glad to see that this is working out for some of you. I thought I'd let you guys know exactly why I'm helping Lureworks out. First off, they're not in the hand pour market because of the bigger fellows aren't buying as much. Also it's no big secret that Color Technologies, Spike-It and Lureworks are all the same company. The reason being for three different divisions is very obvious, they all cater to a different clientele in the industry. The reason that Lureworks is showing so much interest in the hand pour market is because for years now, Don and Bruce have helped set up many people in the plastic component business, teaching them how to make coloring user friendly, giving them all kinds of information pertaining to the industry, basically putting people in business. To have these people after a year or so of doing good business to go to a different supplier because of it being a penny cheaper here and there, it's real easy for these people that Lureworks helped put into business to forget all that Don and Bruce have helped them with and how they basically set them up. Like the guys said, they are tired of this. They are not going to put anyone else in business, in other words, no more middlemen. The reason I think this is a worthwhile company to help is because all that they have to offer for the hand pour guys that was never available before. They've got several new things in the works, that's really going to help out hand pour situations, especially people that need to up their volume some. Also what other supplier do you know of that if you need a color matched, you're going to get it. Yes, there may be a minimum order, but no one else can offer this and if they do, they're most likely going through Lureworks anyway. I get no discounts or anything else for saying this. I just know that if it hadn't been for the information alone that Bruce and Don have given me over the years, I wouldn't be in business now. If I have a problem and I just can't figure it out, all I have to do is call and I always get an answer. I might have to wait a little bit for someone to find out what I need to know, but I always get some kind of answer. To be able to deal with a company direct that is such a large player in the industry, I think speaks a lot in itself for these folks. Yes I do sing these folks praises and will continue to because of the help that they've given me and others. In this day and time, it's very impressive to me that some of the big boys would even consider helping the hand pour guys. I just kind of felt like this was something I needed to say. And if you're having a problem, don't hesitate to call Bruce or Don, they're always willing to help. You just can't beat good customer service.

Jim, at $68.50 per gallon that's $3767.50 per drum without the price break and at $60.50 it's $3327.50 per drum without a price break. To save over $2000 per drum I just don't see how anyone could save that much money with their time and make any kind of profit at all, making and selling baits. In other words for $2000 less I think I could afford to give it a little bit of time. That's my problem with people like MF, LC and others, they have to double the price because they are a distributor and not a manufacturer, and let's be realistic here, if you get .10 to .15 for a plastic hand pour worm you're doing extremely well. It's bad enough that the retailers always try to keep the prices where you can't make any money doing hand pours, but for the component sellers to make it just as hard or harder, just really doesn't add up. And plus I"m sure CC's is just a re-distributed product and with the economy like it is, and plastisol not fluctuating anymore much, used to it went up and down, now it just goes up and stays there, I personally just couldn't justify paying twice the amount of money. I don't really understand what you were talking about the smell, as many runners as I've sold over the years, I have never once ever, had anybody complain about the smell, unless I had added it. And I've never, ever heard of a problem with bubbles in the runners. I just feel I'd rather reheat than fill someone else's pockets.

From what I'm reading on the bubble problem, half the people are having a problem, half the people are not. I personally don't microwave very much plastic unless I'm tweaking a color. I heat a half cup of plastic for around 2 minutes, I get no discoloration whatsoever. And yes I do get microbubbles, but I've noticed that if I let it sit for a few minutes, all the bubbles seem to go to the top. It forms like a small head on top, like the head of a beer but not quite as much, which are easy enough to dip off with a spoon. But recently when I was doing a color sample I got my plastic ready to pour and got distracted for a little bit of time, when I got back the plastic had almost set up so I put it back in the microwave to reheat and when the plastic had reheated the bubbles were gone. Now you've got to keep in mind, that I use the industrial formula, which has no de-airing at all. I was just wondering how you folks are mixing your plastic, are you shaking it or stirring it before you start? To me if you're shaking it to mix it up or vigorously stirring it, then you are incorporating the air bubbles into the material yourself. And considering it takes me around 2 minutes in a microwave to get a half cup at a good pouring consistency, for you guys that are doing it in intervals, are you stirring in between the heating intervals? After 1 minute I take the cup out, stir the plastic and heat for another minute. But for a price that is so much less than all the other plastisols on the market, and the highest quality of customer service you could ever get, plus the added perk of buying from a manufacturer and not a distributor, it seems to me if you are having a bubble problem that letting your plastic set up and then reheating would still be a whole lot more economical than spending twice as much money. I would much rather put a little bit of time into letting my plastic set up and reheating rather than doubling my cost over an air bubble.

At the gallon price that's $2750 for a drum. Ouch! At these prices, shipping should be free. I used LC for years, yes and it's a good plastisol and I did some saltwater baits for a customer using MF plastic, but it was nasty. The fumes were absolutely terrible and the baits were sticky until left hanging overnight, and LC has always had a hard pack problem. And plus considering that both of these companies are pretty well middlemen you will never get a decent price. But this is over $1000 more than other companies out there by the gallon price, plus with the other company you're getting a price break for larger quantities bought. I personally don't like dealing with middlemen, most of them have to double the price that they actually pay per pound for plastic and if you have a problem, then you usually have to wait while they contact the manufacturer. To order a drum of plastic from a plastic manufacturer, you could probably get is shipped to you for between $900 and $1000. Then if you add $200-$300 for shipping, that's still $1300-$1400 less per drum. For $1400 less, I believe I could work through any other problems I was having with any other plastic. And I have never been paid by a plastic company to speak for a product. After supplying hand pours that I made to tackle shops for 7 years and now making baits for a living, I have had every plastic company out there to send me samples that I didn't ask for. I've tried others, Calhoun's is inconsistent and tends to have more of a petroleum smell, Chemionics had more of a chemical smell but was kind of sticky when the baits came out of the mold and the fumes were not that pleasant although nowhere near as bad as MF's. And I had the same results with Marchem as I did with Chemionics. And the thing about it is, almost all the plastic companies out there actually copied 3G's formulas from years and years ago. To me it seems like the high price of middlemen is the main thing that holds hand pour people back from ever making any money. I have never met anyone that sells a lot of hand pour products that's ever actually got paid a profit on what they made plus get paid for their time. Middlemen just don't make sense to me.

Pitbull, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If they didn't even specify a bait, then I imagine it's probably a generic letter they've sent out to other people too. And for them to stress that it was not an infringement warning, makes you wonder just what it was. Do you make something close to the Rage Tail? But anyway, take my word for it, when they get serious after you, you don't ever hear from the company, you hear from their lawyers. I wasn't in business no time when I received my first cease and desist letter, do like I did, be flattered that a big company is taking the time to recognize you. I took it as a compliment that Zoom would actually pay a lawyer to send me a letter. Don't you just love the bait business?!

PM sent.

Gary, That will be one of the problems on replicating a machine produced bait like this. Although the baits shown in the picture shouldn't be so hard that you couldn't get close. This application by hand is just going to take a lot of practice. Remember like I said, the machine does it in tenths of a second, but doing a single cavity you may be able to get by by doing 1 second. But yeah, your plastic will have to be hot to keep the bond intact. I've seen some swirl work by hand and some guys do a good job at it, but keep your eyes out, cause there will soon be a different way to do this. Be patient.

when I can.

Thanks guys. I think I've found what I need. If not, I'll let you know. Thanks again. Mike

ethan3, all the hand injectors named are good products and you'll find the makers of these products have all the safety information that you need. Bear's injector has been around a long time and most experienced people don't have any trouble using it. But if you're not experienced where ever you buy it from, just ask for detailed use instructions. They'll all be glad to help you out. jbs, Vodkaman (Dave) is a long time member and a very stand up guy. As a matter of fact, he answered the question without bias. He immediately supplied a link with helpful information, that's exactly what this website is about. He is definitely not a product basher. Dave's opinion is highly valued. Being a new member, maybe you should read a lot more of his posts. Also he posted to be helpful. You posted trying to discredit him and as a person who handles more high tech CNC work than most people's ever thought about, it's nothing for the companies that I work for to drop $10,000 on a mold. These aren't just little injection molds, these are high tech pieces of equipment and considering I inject plastic for a living (yesterday was 16000 pieces in an 8 hr period), I think I have a little bit of authority on this one. This website is set up to help each other, not to criticize products. Posts like yours will get immediate private emails sent to Jerry asking that you be banned. This has happened before and I'm sure it will again. But to come on and personally attack a member, especially a long time member with good standing, it's just not looked upon as good in this community. If you have such a strong opinion, instead of publicly bashing, you, as everyone else, have the option to PM. Just passing on some friendly advice. I don't want to see you get banned but this is a quick way to do it.

Uh-huh Red, you must have been keeping it a secret.

I'm looking for someone who does a good bit of swim baits, someone that maybe does some painting and dipping and stuff like that. If you could pm me, I sure would appreciate it. Thanks, Mike

I found out today for those of you that make swim baits, frogs and tubes, that have eyes or maybe you're painting them, that the EZ Flow plastic is specially formulated also as an outside clear coat. It's a thinner material with less heat needed so it's also perfect for this application. Thought I'd pass this along.

Big Daddy, swirls or pulse laminates (as it's known in the industry), are achieved by alternating from one color to another. To get anywhere close to a machine made product you will have to have a twin injector with a single nozzle going into the mold. The reason I say this, most pulse laminates are done in tenths of seconds. So, in other words, one color shoots for let's say three tenths of a second, then the other shoots three tenths of a second. On a machine, this will alternate back and forth for as long as I need to fill whatever size cavity I'm making. Some run as long as a minute, and then of course there's cooling time. But I think if you practice, you can get close to what you want. My suggestion is when you're sure your cavity is full, hold continuous pressure on both sides for a few seconds to take care of any dents you might get if you're using a soft plastic.

Red, I'm curious, did you have the plastic smell with the BBCP or the injectasol?

Guys I found out a little bit more about the EZ Flow. It is a specially formulated plastisol. It's a thinner product and needs less heat. This product is for making things like heavily ringed worms, baits with small appendages that won't quite fill out and will also be ideal for hand pouring thin lines for cores and triple laminates. Looks like they've got a product to do just about any kind of bait that you could think of, and they say there's still more to come. Who would have thought there were so many different kinds of plastisol available? Not just soft, medium and hard anymore.

Sorry about the website Mark. We've had this issue for awhile now. We know what it is, we've just been lazy and haven't gotten around to straightening it out. We've got to restructure the whole thing to an informational site only because we no longer do retail. We mainly manufacture for other companies. If you're looking for UV-GLO you'll need to go to Spike-It's website. Click on Lureworks, then click on pigments and dyes.

Jonah, I used very little but you've got to remember very little to me would be a massive amount for you guys, because I mix 5 gallons at a time. On the fish body shown in the picture, I did only mix about 2 1/2 gallons and I only used about 3 pinches in my fingers to get the effect in the picture. So maybe 1/2 teaspoon. Because I mix large amounts, my dyes and pigments usually come in a little stronger strength, or it could be thicker or even be a powder. So it's hard for me to tell you how much to use gauging off of my pigments. The reason for this is to make it more user friendly for you guys, where you can use drops, instead of grams. That is one throw back to the pigments that I use. On any production run careful weighing and measuring has to be done. I don't want to send a bait to a customer that is a different color than the last baits he got from me, consistency is important. I did look on Lureworks website to see what quantities that this comes in so I'm assuming it is a liquid product, so I'm going to guess that a couple of drops per ounce of plastic will be sufficient, but I"ll double check this for sure and I'll chime back in and give you some more information.

Jonah, this can be purchased from Lureworks. The proper name for it is UV-GLO. I don't know why I can't ever remember the right name for it. I'm sure they have it on their website.

I decided to give the UV brightener a test for myself. I tested it in a clear plastic with a little green hi-lite, then I tested a white worm (with and without a blacklight). Here's the results:

smallie, I remeber being at the point that you're at now, and truthfully it's a whole lot easier to weigh your coloring for large batches rather than counting drops and plus the consistency of your baits is just so much better. If nothing else get you a set of gram scales, a small shot glass or beaker, count your drops one time into the shot glass or beaker, and then weigh it. If it's a solid color such as green pumpkin or watermelon you'll usually find that the same amount will do with all batches. For instance, when I was doing hand pours, I would use about 5 grams of coloring per 20 oz of plastic. If you buy your coloring from more than one source, then you will need to weigh these separate. Some places have different color mixing ratios than others. But It's so much easier to pour 5 grams of coloring rather than count 50 drops.