carolinamike

Sounds great man. I'll be glad to help you in any way I can. When you get your pricing on someone else making your baits, get a price per bait and not by the pound. Most companies that sell plastic by the pounds have bad baits in them. I know one gentleman that was getting 16% bad baits. If you purchase by the piece you are paying for each individual piece, therefore they should all be perfect. You should not pay for any baits that are not formed properly. I would also like to mention that our product line is also produced for resale under your company name. Right now we do have three baits available for this (lizard, finesse worm, and shakee shad and also 2 different styles of crappie or panfish flicktails). We've got three more worms coming and two chunk jig trailers, if you would like to add to your product line. If Carolina Baits produces your product, everything is kept in house. I personally run the machine and will be solely responsible for producing good baits. If you develop your own custom color, which is truly a custom color, this will never be produced for anyone but you. Like I said there's a lot more we can talk about, so call me or PM me. I'm sure we can have a great working relationship. And for anyone out there in TU land, that's interested just let me know. Be sure and tell me you are a TU member so you can get your discount.

One Sock, Man I'm sorry for not catching this post earlier. We're in post spawn in our area right now so Carolina Baits is wide open. But I will chime in and help you clear up some thing on this subject. First of all, I would like to offer our services to you to produce your baits. Take my word for it, I mass produced hand pours for 6 years and have never once gotten paid for my labor, so getting someone else that can mass produce your baits for you will save you time and then you can be paid for your labor. PM me for the details on this and thanks Bruce for remembering me. Alright this much being said on my part, let's talk about mass production. If you're determined to keep things in house as we were, there are ways to do it. The first thing and I don't think that anyone has mentioned it, if your going to produce a lot of baits by hand, you want a lot of molds. If there's 10 baits per bag, it's best that you have at least 30 cavities to pour. The presto pots properly built pressure pots and properly regulated Lee pots will all do fine. The secret to this is having enough pots to keep you going for an amount of time. For instance, I use the Lee pots, heat up time from start to finish is somewhere around an hour. So what I would do, if I have a lot of one color to make, I would go ahead and mix my plastic up and put in the pots, as soon as my first pot was ready to pour start heating the second pot, by the time you finish pouring the first pot, the second pot is ready to go. The bad side to this is that after about 6 hours of steady pouring, that little bitty POP mold, silicone mold or aluminum molds are gonna start feeling like they weigh 500 lbs. Then you start losing your neatness and you will have over pour to trim from the baits. By the time your labeling and packaging is done, you have put so much cost into your bait with your labor that you will never get paid back for it. I keep noticing this coming up also, every time someone mentions mass production or injection machines. Not as good or quality not as good as hand pour, this is very incorrect. This mainly has to do with the operators of the machine. Most large companies goal is to make it, get it in a bag and get it in the store, that's all they're worried about. Mass production is the same as anything else, you only get out of it what you put into it. Most companies do not have the same people running the machine all the time. 9 out of 10 times these are immigrant workers running the machine and quality is not top priority with any of these folks. With an injection machine, you get a more consistent product, you do not worry about overheating at all but it's like any other plastic equipment, you have to constantly inspect your product and you have to pay attention to detail. I can do laminates just as good as any hand pour, solid colors are no problem, we put the exact same additives into our mass produced plastic as we do our hand pours (yeah, that's right I'm still doing both, it's an addiction). Most companies aren't going to put expensive scent, softener, and the other things that make hand pours so special. Yes we are into mass production, but we're more into the quality of our product, whether we produce it one a time or 86 at a time. I will send anybody out there a finesse worm that I've hand poured and a finesse worm that I've injected and challenge anyone to find the difference in the quality. That being put to rest, everyone is correct on the machine being very expensive. If you're going to produce a competitive product line of baits, then you're looking at about $100,000.00 for equipment and molds alone. Proper air compressor will run you around $2500.00 and then you have to have the facility for your manufacturing. I got my machine in January I have already purchased 6 barrels of plastic at around $500.00 per barrel. Then you have to look at mass quanities of flake and you start buying your coloring by the pound instead of by ounces. I don't mean to scare you but this is the reality that we are facing right now, the runner for your bait, which is the canal in the mold that each individual bait branches off of when the plastic is injected. These runners average out to about 30% of the plastic that you make, you can regrind them and use re-use some of them, but you have to be very careful or you will lose the consistency of your product. Think about your hand pours now and look at the waste that you have in the plastic and triple or more with mass production. I'm not trying to discourage you in any way, I just really want you to have the facts and know what you are getting into. And maybe you think I'm the kind of guy that's got a whole lot of money, you're wrong. You will need around $30,000.00 as an initial investment in order to get started up but there are ways to do this. The Small Business Association is your best bet, but you have to find a bank that has their own SBA division. We actually went to about 4 different banks before we got what we were looking for. Most banks are not familiar with the plastic industry so you will have to shop around. I live in a very small town in NC if I can do this, then you can. You just really have to make up your mind about how much you want to put into it. Either way you decide to go, whether it be hand pouring yourself, getting me or someone else to make your plastic or to get your own mass production equipment, PM me or call me 1-704-434-9255 and I'll be glad to help you along the way with this. A good mentor is very valuable in this business. I was lucky enough to get the gentleman that the standard for the business as mine. He told me the reason he was helping me was that so one day I could help someone else. So don't hesitate to PM or call.

Thanks Nova, we're just not familiar with US Angler's Choice in our area. We have 5 or 6 lakes within an hour of our house, Lake Norman and Wylie being a couple of them, and there's a whole lot of tournaments around. Angler's choice just doesn't seem to be in our area. The only thing I can figure is maybe this guy fishes tournaments and is trying to fish for freebies. I would have come closer to giving them to him if he would have asked me outright. But if he does turn out to be with Angler's Choice, I'll probably have to give up a few free baits.

OK guys here's more information. The gentleman asking for the baits name is Avery Poles. He says he is an assistant director with US Angler's Choice. His address is in Virginia. I did some checking and called the director of Region 4 which should be the Virginia area. I missed his call but he left a message saying that he had never heard of this person. He did say however, he would check at headquarters and see if anyone knows of him. The main reason for posting this is so if someone is out there just starting a website or just starting to sell baits might say, Wow this is a great way to get business. I'm an old hand at this so I always like to get as much information as possible before I make donations, exception being the Casting Kids. It being such a fine organization and someone asking on an open forum, I feel they're OK. I'm always glad to help someone out but it ticks me off to be taken advantage of. Thanks so much for the input. If anyone knows Avery tell him to PM me.

Has anyone heard of US Anglers Choice? These folks have emailed me several times now asking for donations. I'm kind of suspicious about this one, most places if you don't reply back, you don't hear from again. But these folks just keep asking. Maybe somebody could help shed the light on this organization.

What weight do you consider bulk?

Down south our color of muscadine mimics the inside of the hull and not the outside. It's a reddish purple semi opaque bait. The color is dark, does this sound anything like what you're looking for?

C'mon guys, this is the kid's biggest fish ever. Sit back and recall that same moment for yourself. I know when I was 15 years old that poor 6lb largemouth that was laying on that bed when I chunked that 5" bream on a 6/0 or 7/0 hook, 50lb test line on an ocean rod that suddenly got dragged up through the cow pasture not reeled, mind you, dragged, sure did look like 10lbs to me. River Jigin, if it looked 10lbs to you brother, then it looked 10lbs to me too. Son, you keep fishing and keep making baits, that's a great fish and you did a great job! And for the rest of you guys, let's help keep them on the water and off the streets. That kid could be out vandalizing bass boats for fun.

JSC, Just a warning to you and others out there. We got a few molds from Carolina 4 or 5 years ago. They used a silicone very sparingly. So little that if you made 4 or 5 pours in a row, the mold would actually bow up in the middle, making some worms almost flat. When I removed the paper from the bottom of the wooden frame, instead of filling the frame all the way up with silicone, it looked like someone had taken something and just barely covered their masters. I really don't think the molds were that expensive, but that helped me learn my lesson on molds. If they're made cheap, they're going to be cheap. I also have several molds but I'm not sure who made them, I know they're real old because they came from a man that was 92 and living in a rest home. They are for a pre-rigged worm with 2 hooks. I would post some pictures, but we still haven't figured out how to get them sized right. They seem to always come out blurry. These molds are all made with a red colored or greenish colored silicone. some have a blue coating in the cavity, then some have a clear silicone on the bottom. I was wondering if anyone was familiar with these kinds of molds.

Thanks to all of you that responded. Legendary Saint308 Outdooradvantage Jurgo68 Mac10 EugeneM King Bait Co IGETBIT2 Bass Grabber Alsworms Nlvbassin Reeves MuskyGary D.J. JDBaits BassnRandy Livelybaits This should help a lot. Wow responses all the way from Florida to California! For those 17 folks on the list to show our appreciation for your input, I would like to send you guys a sample pack if you would like. If you're interested please PM me with a mailing address and we'll be glad to drop you something in the mail for your trouble. Thanks so much for your time.

You can probably put a small heat band around the nozzle itself and then insulate it with woven fiberglass. You will have to have some type of temperature control. My nozzles I had made at a machine shop, they are 3" in diameter with a hole drilled in them to slide a cartridge heater in. Just make sure to get one that is 110V. You will have to specify the length of cord you want, do not short yourself on the length, you will want it to be long enough. I put a straight plug on mine and then plugged it into a lamp dimmer switch that I purchased at Lowes. There are a whole lot better ways to control the temperature, but it involves a whole lot more money too. Oh, did I mention that you can get the heat bands at Thermal Corp, they also have the temperature controls too. This is where most people get their supplies for the big pressure pots too. They have a website and their phone # is 800-633-2962. When you pull up their website, there is a picture of a small heat band, remember to insulate these with something and have a good nozzle handle because they do get hot.

Thanks folks this is helping out a lot. So far it looks like I can't lose with some form of green pumpkin or watermelon. Mac10, thanks so much for the crappie information because this will probably be part of our samples also. I appreciate anymore input I can get. Thanks,

Hey guys why not just add a self heating nozzle?

Thanks so much for your input guys. I have no idea what the addresses may be so all the input I can get will be greatly appreciated. So far it looks like the greens are winning.

Here's some facts that might help with your purchasing decision. First off, the air supply - starts with a plastic regulator connected to brass fittings directly to the pot. So the plastic regulator is getting the heat too. Mine had no kind of sealant where it was connected, no teflon tape or anything, just screwed on. The air regulator is the only gauge you have for your pressure. You have no way of knowing the true pressure in the pot, all you know is the pressure of the air that's coming in. The pressure in the pot is always more than the air coming in because the heat expands the air. Also, the rubber plug is still in the lid - what is the blowout pressure? You have no way of knowing. This item is in the lid for cooking and canning not for pressurized hot plastic being continually stirred. The pot is an extreme burn hazard once heated, if you touch the outside of the insulation it will burn you. That tells you, you have very very poor insulation, which makes it harder to regulate your heat. For the price and after building one much safer than this one and three times less the cost I would just hate to see you get burned either way. But remember, this product does not represent LC directly. These are sold separately by LC's former owner. I contacted him directly about mine because I was told that there was a whole lot more that the temperature controls could do and that there would be an instruction book to come with it, which it did not. Also, I asked for the gauge that originally came with the pot, he told me he was going out of town and when he got back in town, he would be sure to send me these items. I believe that is close to a year ago now, and still no word. This was one member's experience.

This is for you guys that have your own website. I was wondering if you cared to tell your best selling color for your particular area of the US. The reason I'm asking is that there is a magazine that does product reviews for their members, exchanging product for advertisment. If we do this, I will be provided with a list of addresses from across the US and would kind of like to stick to the popular colors for those areas. For instance, I live in Western NC and our best selling colors are green pumpkin(#1), followed by watermelon, and then some form of black, with the occaisional red shad. So in this area it's mainly darker colors. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks,

I also have two of these pots, but I built my first one and then purchased my second one from LC. LC's is made as cheaply as possible. The original design, or the popular one that is out now, were sold by Fish Getter Lures. They don't put a lot of time into these things. The insulation they use is not very good at all, you can still get burnt by touching the outside of the pot. The nozzle, you have to work with a pair of pliers. I didn't even use the lid for the one I purchased because I don't feel that it is air tight, and I didn't like the regulator being connected to the pot itself. The stirring motor is too small and so I the stirrer and the shaft. If you look back on the thread, "Where do you pour", you can see a picture of both of mine. If you build one and add a heated nozzle, you can gravity pour without pressure and without having to get your plastic too hot to get it to pour. The only reason I bought one is because I took so many safety precautions with the one I built, it took me about a year to complete it, and too, the machine shop I was using was very slow. If you want to PM me, I can give you some information on how to build one that is very safe to operate with or without pressure. I shoot up to 18 pounds of pressure on one particular mold without any problems, and for $400-$600 you should be able to build a nice one. I highly recommend LC, but I don't recommend this particular item that they sell.

Saint, I have a mold of Strike King's version that I made a couple of years back. It's a one piece mold, therefore it's flat on one side. If you would like, you are welcome to use it. Let me know.

How many do you need? PM me. Thanks,

I've been using LC's beaver molds. I never have any trouble with the side fins, they're always perfectly formed every time. I hand poured 300 small beavers this weekend and not one bad fin. Now, here's the secret: Hold the mold at the head and tail end and flex the center slightly upward. This will cause the side fins cavities to open up. Then pour your side fins first in both cavities quickly. When you release the mold, the closing action of the cavities will actually draw the plastic down into the bottom of the fin, and pretty well all in one motion, the first fin you poured, pour the tail and the body halfway up, then go directly to the next cavity tail, do the same as you did with the first, topping them both off. I have 10 molds of the 3 1/4" and the 4 1/2" and have made a massive amount of these baits, a lot of them using Lee pots. With a little practice it's hard to tell the difference except for the flat side, just don't flex your mold too much or you will split the silicone cavity.

We're just thankful we were able to help. Keep us in mind for next year. Your friend, Mike Greene

Packages will be mailed out tomorrow 03/10/08.

Smallie is right when he talks about the knock offs on other products and it's funny how patents work. I'm sure when Guy Eaker's Eaker Shaker hit the market a few years back no one would have thought that re-shaping the blade a little and giving it a different name that it would be such a hit (chatterbait). But that's the true nature of this business unfortunately. That's the reason that when we went from hand pour to mass producing, that we weren't really worried about coming out with the newest thing, but sticking with your basic reliable baits. The money's more reliable. Even with a patent all you have to make is a 20% change and you've broken no infringement laws. And when you think about it, 20% of a plastic bait is not really that much. I believe RI marketed the Sweet Beaver mainly to a lot of the pros, so it was pretty well known before it actually hit the national market, but they must have done something right because at one time, all the stores around here were having trouble getting them. So I feel like if you've done extensive testing and you know your're onto something, I personally feel that your best bet would be to mass produce the product. But you must have a very good marketing plan laid out. This is a big key in the plastic industry. And in all actuality this will be your biggest expense. Advertising in major fishing magazines is very expensive. But if you've got your marketing down and you've got enough supply for the demand, you should do well. Gary Yamamoto actually promotes their bait (Senko) as the most reproduced (copied) bait ever. If you're asking your question in general, hope I helped some. If you're seriously considering something like this, then PM me and I can give you a whole lot more details.

We have a new bass bait that we are currently mass producing and since you are a TU member, we would like to commit to 150 packs just let us know when you need them by. Thanks for keeping them off the streets and on the water. Mike & Angie Greene

You can purchase one from Lurecraft but I don't like their nozzle or the insulation they use on the pot. The nozzle is a burn waiting to happen and the insulation does not insulate well at all. I built one myself and then purchased one from LC. Their agitator's are not very sturdy and the motors are not that strong, but anytime your putting pressure on something that's 325 degrees or above then you automatically have a work hazard. A good leather glove is a must. If you get hot plastic on you before you know it you've tried to wipe it off with the other hand, now you have two burns or either you wipe it off on your clothes and you have a new pair of plastic pants, if you'd like some help building one, PM me. It's takes a good bit of time and probably around 500 bucks. You can make them very safe, in other words, they won't blow up or nothing. If you go to the thread "Where do you pour", you can see pictures of the injectors that I posted.