carolinamike

Paul, non disclosure forms are a must. Any good reputable mold maker or bait prodcer will have no hesitation in signing it. Until you get these forms signed do not show your bait to anyone, let me repeat this, until you get these forms signed do not show your bait to anyone. The plastic industry is wide open for the next new bait, when it comes to the bait business you even have to be careful with your friends. These types of forms also help you establish yourself as the inventor, documentation is a must when trying to prove ownership.

The most consistant and professional way to measure coloring is by wieght in grams. This is the way all professional injection companies measure their coloring. And for pigment that is not broke down it is really the only way you can measure it because it is more of a paste than a liquid.

PM sent

One thing for sure, if you store the baits with alot of salt they will draw moisture. I used to make a reaper type worm that was an open pour and while the plastic was still hot I would add salt to the bottom of the bait. If you have salt in the plastic I really see no need to store them in any substance, over time you will have a natural leeching of the plastisizer that after a while will give the worms an oily coat. I use gusseted bags to line my boxes when storing baits. I guess it all just comes down to a personal preferance, if you use a plastisizer at the very beginning the baits will naturaly absorb it for the first little bit but I dont know if salt will break down in plastisizer.

Here is a twist to the tale, I talked to my customer today and he told me he knew about his baits being on TV, but get this, that tackle shop owes him about 500 bucks and wont pay him.

I just happened to be watching animal planet tonight and there was a program on called Swamp'd! and I noticed a customer's baits that I produce hanging on the wall infront of the cash register. Can't wait to call my customer tommorow and tell him that his products are on TV now.

"Statements from Gangel are worthless rhetoric concerning a business and successful business philosophies.He threatened so i took him up on it. You use this as ammunition against me" No one's opionion is worthless and you are the one that keeps posting these things and furnishing the ammunition. I agree, you need to relax.

No one is picking or poking, by the top quote again it shows that you are just posting to argue with whomever you feel like you've got the upper hand on. I think everybody on here gets it, you're "not in favor of a 15 year old working with hot plastisol" but yet you posted that you would bring him into your shop for some on the job training, then you say he needs someone to show him saftey first then you also said "its a waste of your precious time detailing saftey items". Its one thing then another. You know in most states a kid gets his learner's permit at 15 then his driver's liscence at 16 years old so he is old enough to operate a car or a truck and of course he learns to drive with supervision but you are the only one who has said that he will be pouring plastic without supervision, you arn't giving his parents much credit are you? Just because you have been in business for 37 years does not make you a self appointed expert neither. I have been running a sucessful soft plastic bait business for 18 years and started out with one Lee pot, now there is 500,000 dollars worth of equippment in the shop and it dosen't make me an expert but it does make me specifically expirienced in the plastic industry. Like I said I won't do anything before talking to his parents and explaining in great detail the importance of saftey and supervision when pouring plastisol and I'm way ahead of everyone when it comes to liability. Me and Baitjunky both have already agreed that we need a signed statement noting that the parents understand the saftey aspects of pouring plastisol and that we won't be held liable for any accidents and we won't send anything without this letter, after all I am a business person too. So what other reasons are going to be repeated over and over to discourage a teenager who loves to fish and would like to make a few of his own baits and then if he has a love for it to maybe sell a few, as long as he follows the laws and rules and his parents agree to it, where does anyone have a right to discourage him? I really think its great that he came to TU for advice, like its been said, his parents could've just bought the equippment and handed it to him, at least me and baitjunky will get a chance to let his parents know exactly what they're getting into. And by the way Baitjunky is also going to furnish some coloring and flake, which is a fine example of an incouraging person and a stand up guy.

You've got to learn to crawl before you walk. Why haven't you posted these saftey aspects in detail for the young man? When and if I talk to his parents I certainly will, especially since this time last year I was going back and forth to the burn center. I think everybody realizes that injection is the way to go but I just wouldn't suggest it for anyone new pouring plastic, especially someone so young. There is a large difference between gravity pouring and pressure-rised 350 degree plastisol. Lee pots are great to learn with, you learn how plastic flows, you learn the importance of heat regulation, and God forbid if there was an accident, with lee pots its usually not that significant, after all I dont know anybody thats played around with pouring plastic that eventually dont get a little burned. And you are right, Bear's is a great website but all that information can be found on TU. Especially when people post constructive and positive information that is really meant to help more than it is to discourage, and not just post because they want to argue.

That statement alone is exactly why I said, I manufacture plastic baits for a living and have for over 5 years. Too bad that some people just don't get it, that in young people's spare time today, there's so many bad things for them to get into. I know this first hand because I have two teenage boys and work with teenagers at church. Kids absolutely need creative and worthwhile outlets for the time they're not in school. After all, it's usually these times that they wind up in trouble. Keep them on the water and off the streets fellows. I'd much rather see a child make a mistake in bait manufacturing or have good guidance in bait manufacturing, than some dope dealer doing the guidance or making a mistake with some kinds of drugs. Like I said there's just too many bad things out there for kids to get into these days.

If texasfisherman knows somebody that wants to buy clear baits with no flake in them then it looks like he is already in business and it didn't cost him nothing, well maybe a little electricity and his time but considering he will have no cost for the pot, plastisol, and molds I would say he is doing pretty good.

Looks like a little bit of flake and some coloring and you're making baits buddy.

Very well said Al. texasfisherman1, I hope everything goes well with your surgery and don't let anyone on here discourage you from a dream. I tell you what I'm going to do to encourage you, if you would like it, I have a couple of extra Lee pots, you're more than welcome to one free of charge. Even if you don't sell baits, you can make some for yourself and fish with them. That's also the way that a lot of us started out. PM me if you're interested and I'll give you my phone number. I'll talk to your Dad or Mom and if they ok it, then the pot is yours. Also I have a few molds that I'll give you too. A couple of POP molds so it will help give you an idea of how to make your own and there's a couple of silicone molds I'll also throw in. Who knows maybe somebody will chime in and send you a little plastic too. I'm the RA leader at our church and also on the children's and youth committees and I think it's great you have a desire to start a hobby that's more addictive than anything you can think of. It's a good hobby that will keep you out of trouble. Just PM me if you're interested.

Explain to me why this young man cannot start out with a Lee pot, considering my whole business started out with two Lee pots and 40 POP molds. 20 molds of two different types of jig trailers. I was supplying 4 stores with this setup alone, and it was less than $300 to get started, including plastic, coloring and glitter. I was working a full time job and had two small children, so why couldn't a 15 year old productive young man, not do this and go to school? Again I'm speaking from experience, especially since I have a 16 year old and a 13 year old son. The 16 year old is taking Honors classes in high school and college classes as well. He worked a part time job for most of the summer and during the school year he helps me in the shop, plus still he has time for his guitar and Xbox. What would be wrong with an enterprising young man spending a Saturday making baits? Your average high school kid is not going to spend all weekend long in his books. And if he enjoys making baits in his spare time, why be against it? And as far as the costs go, between the prices of Iphones, Ipads, Xbox, video games and computers, I don't think that $400-$600 is out of the question. I think it would be totally his and his parents decision whether the money was foolishly spent or not. You really sound totally against the idea of a young man starting his own business, but yet you say you would bring him into your shop and work him and give him OJT. So why not instead of being so discouraging give him some safety advice, some pointers on actually making baits and some advice to his parents on supervision. I know several people on this forum alone who did their own OJT with good quality advice and encouragment from people who care on TU. To say that you can only start a bait business by investing thousands of dollars is just not a true statement and I myself am living proof of that. Sure the Lee pot days were hard work, but I gained a vast array of knowledge by starting out very small. The same thing I've been encouraging this young man to do the whole time. After all, the most I've said about this business venture is it's between him and his friends and maybe some neighbors. Who knows he could start the next Berkley. Let the young man dream and encourage his dreams to come true. bluetickhound, that's what I like to hear. Positive comments.

No smallmouth the thread went south when I said it was a standard practice for people starting out to give baits away. And for some reason you have taken offense to it, when it's the truth. All I said is that it was a common practice and I didn't say anyone had to do it, but I was kind enough to give an example of how it had worked out for me. And I understand that you and Bob both have experience in business, but my experience is directly related to plastic manufacturing and by saying this, I'm not saying anyone's wrong. You guys are reading into it what you want to, I'm simply stating that I do have experience with this particular subject. Enough that I have went to the next level. And again no one has said anything about not getting an education, but what is wrong with a 15 year old having a part-time bait business as a learning experience? Please read the quote of mine that you put up, where does it say anything about all pros being sponsored? It states that all major plastic companies have pros that they support by paying and giving them baits. I think everyone understands that all pros do not have sponsors, but again all major companies do sponsor pros. And again no one is talking about an enormous amount of baits. And almost all the guys that are sponsored by big companies have their gas and entry fees paid for them, and several of them get supplied with free vehicles (trucks or SUV). But some pros do receive enormous amounts of baits for free, along with boats, batteries, fishing rods, reels, trolling motors, power poles and depth finders. Guy Eaker is an acquaintance of mine and I've been to his house several times. He gave me and the wife a tour of his basement which is a very large basement by the way, and it is absolutely packed full of items that the major companies have given him. Ranger Boats is not a lure manufacturing company. But they do have one or two pros and most of your major lure manufacturers have more pros than this. And besides smallmouth, you are the one that suggested that I chime in on this one because I had paid my dues. Basically if you didn't want to hear my opinion why did you suggest I chime in? Bob, by stating that I do it for a living, was not in any way saying that you or anyone else didn't know what they were talking about. It was basically saying and should have been taken as, I started at the bottom of the plastic industry and worked my way up to large scale manufacturing, by knowing what I am doing. I guess it would be the same thing as me referencing a plastic injection machine when the conversation was about a security system. All I did was stick to the topic and try to explain to a young man how everyone got started in the plastic industry and the common practices of the plastic industry. Again, everyone is more worried about responding to me instead of concentrating on the standard practices of a plastic business. But I've got myself caught up into it too. But I've been trying to stick to the subject.

I know what you mean Al, I didn't know what I was getting into when I answered, especially when someone suggested for me to chime in, that I had paid my dues

Can you blame him?

No Bob I basically did not tell anyone to shut up. I basically told the truth in reference to the bait business. Show me one place that I stated that the bait business is all roses, all I have done is tell what the standard practices of all major bait companies are. I think I have told several times that business is hard and that I struggled, I have not discredited anyone in any way. As a matter of fact I think a couple of people have tried to take it the opposite direction and discredit me and truthfully all I have done is encourage the young man. The young man isn't asking about business in general, he is specifically asking about the legalities and things related to the bait business. My implications have been nothing but toward the bait making industry. Bob anything else being played into this is not my doing, you guys are acting like this kid is mortgaging the family home to start a bait business. So what if he gives 20 friends a bag of 10 worms, he is giving away 200 worms so he picks up 4 paying customers, thats the 5% guess what he started a business. Its a shame when a good thread takes a turn for the worse and goes completley off topic basically just because someone is trying to prove a point.

Bob considering that this about giving advice to 15 year old about the plastic bait business, I dont see how a communication contract company plays into this whatsoever. Alright since this thing has went completely south Someone, anyone give me a name of a major bait company that does not give some of their product away such as Strike King, Mann's, Zoom, Berkley, Zman, Robo-worm, or any of the other major players that do not sponser a pro fisherman who gets free product in exchange for promotions and free advertisement. Heck, not only do they get free product but they get paid for fishing them. Welcome to the bait business boys.

This is the complete reference to the statement I quoted, and this statement makes it sound like that giving samples is a total waste of time and it is not especially when its the standard way everyone starts their bait business. Maybe you meant that fishing tournaments was a complete waste of time but thats not how the statement started. I fished 2 bass clubs for 18 years so that was atleast 2 tournaments a month and that dosen't take into consideration all the pickup tournaments on the side, and when I first started making baits I gave away 10 gallons of plastic before I ever sold the first product. That 5% you speak of can be alot of people and I imagine that you are correct that only 5% of the people actually bought baits. But that 5% of people also was the best advertisement I have ever had, I can accredit that 5% for putting product that I made in alomst every major fishing magazine in the country, such as bassmasters, bassin times, FLW, North American fisherman, and several others. The products we make appeared in several television shows such as FLW and bassmaster's. We have also appeared on several websites such as the last 2 named and also wired to fish. If I would have followed some of the advice given in this thread the dream that I had of owning my own bait business would've never happened. It was certainly very very hard work to get where I'm at and it was 10 years of struggling and learning when there were no informational sites like TU to be had. By far one certain plan doesn't work for everyone and we still have good days and bad days but I still to this day have to give free samples away, especially for color references. If I'm not willing to do this then I would've missed alot of new customers. No not everyone that I give my samples to use my services but hey, thats part of the business and its things like this that a 15 year old with a love for fishing needs to learn. I'm sorry I'm just not a dream killer and learning is the biggest part of growing up, of course mistakes are going to be made but sometimes these mistakes can be the best learning tools and one person's plan does not work for everybody. I think its important that we all be honest and say it didn't work for me but this is the way everyone starts out. Afterall, out of all the people that are saying "don't start out like everyone else"who is actually do it for a living?

I was responding to a post that was specifically directed to me, and I did not miss your starting sentence nor did I miss the sentence that ended your statement. I think being encouraging is what our young people need these days, there is enough in this world to discourage them already. For most people on here that manufactor, its not really about the money its more about doing something that you love and enjoy and since we are giving advice to teenager why not approach it from a positive aspect? If he makes baits for any amount of time he will find out all about the negative aspects of having your own business and at his age learning is what its all about. Trial and error is the best teacher of all.

Smallmouth, by reading the first post of this thread I don't see any indication that this young man is not considering his education and I think its absolutley great to consider a small part-time bait business. I dont think a 15 year old really needs to worry about supporting a family. I'm sure with the way that the emphasis is put on education in the school systems today that he understands the importance of a good education. I think a part time bait business would be a great educational expirience, especially if this young man has a love for fishing. Its a very competitive market, you must develop accounting skills, you must learn to fill out quarterly taxes, communication is a must, you must have marketing skills. All of these are valuable things for a person to be educated in no matter what the career move. I see no where in the young man's post that would lead me to believe that this is a career move, if he has alot of friends that fish or he lives in a community that has alot of fishing around it, why not a small bait business to earn a little extra money and develop his skills? I imagine his parents are still his main source of suitible income, we are talking about a kid here, not an adult trying to make alot of money, a kid that probably enjoys fishing and thinks it would be neat to make some baits and sell them. Why are so many people being so discouraging to him? This is another one of those threads that are going south fast. The kid is asking for help. I have noticed that you or anyone else will not right out admit to this young man that you started out by giving baits away, whether it was profitable for anyone or not, it is the way that everyone starts out. After all, how many people on here actually do nothing else for a living but make baits besides me? We need to encourage our young folks in more hobbies like bait making and fishing, lets keep them on the water and off of the streets. If mom and dad are helping to foot the bill then most likley they will help keep an eye on the money too. There is nothing wrong with having fun doing something you enjoy and there is nothing wrong with being young, making a few mistakes, and learning in the process. So texasfisherman, don't let anyone discourage you, be careful with your money, enjoy what you do, your teenage years are a great time for learning and making mistakes. You will always be learning for the rest of your life but you can always avoid the mistakes you made when you were young after you are grown.

Again I ask this question to anyone that sells baits now or has sold baits in the past, did anybody start out by not giving away baits? Whether you felt like it was profitable or not. I have never met anyone that manufactors and sells plastic baits that did not start out by giving free baits and have never heard of anyone. Whether you like it or not it is the way that everybody starts out. Considering we are giving advice to a 15 year old young man, I think its important we all be truthful about this subject. You may not feel that you profited from it but everyone has to start somewhere.

It's really hard to think outside the box when it comes to plastics. Most likely anything you think of has been tried by someone else some way or another. But it is nice when a truly new idea comes out.

WELCOME!!