carolinamike

tupong is exactly right, your mold needs re-polishing. The shinyer the mold the shinyer the bait.

Bill, thats exactly the point that the PM stressed. The gentleman said that when he refuses to make exact copies then he loses customers. When it comes to the beaver I'm as guilty as anyone, many years ago I made them and sold them off of lurecraft's molds. I can actually remember purchasing a mold from them that had the initials R.I. in the tail. By all means i'm not bad mouthing this mold maker, I just thought that people were open to new designs. I didnt realize that the demand for exact copies was that high. It makes sense in a way but in ways in dosen't. I am just glad that I dont do retail sales of baits and I stopped tournement fishing.

Bill, this type of patent is a design patent so the whole design of the bait is patented, thats also probably the reason that the patent is only valid for 14 years. This is a great patent to see the difference between the type of patent that covers zoom's super chunks and the type of patent that covers the beaver, if you will notice that this patent has nothing to do with the function of the bait, just how the bait looks. That is the reason that companies can add different legs and claws and get by with selling their baits where zoom's patent claims that each little noch and ridge actually makes the bait perform a certain way. Like the patent attorney told me, zoom's patent is a well researched and very well written patent and I imagine that it was alot more expensive too.

I had a very interesting PM due to this thread from one of the moldmakers. He said people didn't want original designs as much as they wanted copies of existing designs. I understand this up to a point, but you can make an original design and still be close to an existing design without infringing on anyone's patent. You may have to educate yourself on patents and like I've said before, really do your homework. But you can come up with a creative design without using anyone's patent points. For instance, the thread that's up right now, I believe it's called "Name that bait", the bait in the picture is a prime example of creativity. The bait is similar to the beaver, but if you look closely the ridges on the body are completely different. Although it looks similar to a beaver, the gentleman was smart enough to stay away from Reaction's patent points.

Funny you should bring this subject up, they called me this week and asked me to try a sample of their product. I've used it before but it was years ago so I dont remember too much about it but when the sample gets here I will test it in a hand pour application and give you guys the low down.

Its definatly not a scare tactic, considering that he sued strike king. I know who made the production mold and the bait was patented before it came out on the market. Andre is a super nice guy but he likes to cuss.

In my case the moldmaker was not at fault. The mold was made at my request using a design that I had sold for 5 years or more to the public (in stores and on the internet). And I agree that it was irresponsible on my part for not doing my homework. It was a severe hard lesson to learn and you can bet I didn't make that mistake again. But I think it is the responsiblity for any moldmaker who is making a large amount of generic molds for sale to the public to do their homework. After all, I don't feel like it's up to an individual to have to consider fighting a battle that he did not start. What I'm trying to say is, is when a mass produced mold is put out on the market, you shouldn't have to worry about being sued by a bigger company. I mean really it's kind of pathetic that someone has to voice concerns such as this. Be it for a hobby or for sale. But like you said Frank, it's a real pain to even have to consider things such as this.

Frank, I did get a letter, as a matter of fact I got 3 or 4 letters concerning 2 different molds and I spent the money and consulted with 2 different attorneys who told me that 95% of the people lose cases like this. There is not too much principal involved when it comes to spending money for nothing. These werent hand pour molds, it was 2 production molds at 6000 dollars a piece and that dosent include the attorney fees and it happened just like you said, I got a letter on one mold then 2 or 3 months later, a letter on another mold. Not only was I advised by 2 attorneys that I would lose (one was a patent attorney) I was also advised that the larger companies would stretch the case out as long as possible in order to bleed me dry, and the lawyer asured me that he couldn't work for free. If a mold is infringing, then why fight on principal? if you are wrong, is it wise to enter a battle you cannot win?

Frank, are you saying that if you get a ceast and desist letter that you're going to hire a lawyer and fight it, especially, when if it goes that far, 95% of the time, the patent holder wins? Just curious. It seems to me like it would be best to be original and avoid trouble.

Dont forget to wear gloves!

PM sent.

Painter, are you sure you mixed the plastic well? I don't mean to question you, but I have used Calhoun's before and it was a little tacky when I first demolded, but after hanging and curing overnight, that went away for me.

Lure works has it.

Keep in mind that D&J are well known for being a knock off company. Not only do they manufactor baits but they also have a retail sales company(Big Bite Baits). Over the years they have helped shut down several mom and pop businesses. There are more injection companies, but unless you have ten or twelve molds they consider you small potatoes. With these companies, the big boys come first, most all of the big companies, including D&J, want to do a full day's run of a single color, no one wants to change the color in the middle of the day. A day's run can be 10 to 15 thousand pieces per color, some compaies will do less but there is a 25 to 30 percent charge for doing so. I dont mind helping you find another injector but I pretty well know all of the injection companies out there, and they are also familiar with me. I dont need to know details about your bait but I do need to know the details of what type of work you want done, what you expect from an injection company, and what your mold is capable of in order to put you with the right injector, and i can also recomend a mold maker to you, but i will need to know how you want your mold sit up in order to suggest a mold maker. Like i said I dont mind helping you, i've done it for several companies and some of them I dont do their work.

Are you prepared to buy 10,000 pieces per color? If you call me, I will help you even if you don't want to use my services. Like I said in my PM I need more information. This is so I know what direction to send you. You also need more information so you understand how large scale production works.

I would like to add that if it's a stock mold and Del has it made on the shelf, they are very quick to get these molds sent out. Just be sure to ask a lot of questions, so you understand if there will be any wait time.

I don't think there's ever been a post about a poor quality mold from Del. It's always been about poor customer service. I think that if you have bigger fish to fry and you consider some of your customers small potatoes then before taking their order, you should explain that they could be pushed back. Honesty goes a long way when it comes to customer service. In my case, all I wanted was a price estimation, and for someone that claimed to have all this knowledge about reverse engineering, aerospace technology and being a top notch machinist, there's no excuse for not being able to estimate a cost for a project within 8 months. Patrick's right there's been several posts that have been locked or deleted but that was also at a time when Del was a big TU advertiser. There were so many complaints from customers that had already paid for products having to wait very long periods of time and just like myself being constantly told that it was being worked on week after week. Being a part of the fishing industry, we occaisionally run into problems ourselves and things take longer than they should, but I don't just tell my customers something to put them off. I'm straight up and honest with my customers. Sure machines break down, supplies can be slow coming in and sometimes schedules can be underestimated but when a company builds a reputation for slow response to their customers at some time or another they need to step up and take responsiblity and address the issues. After all, numerous complaints is what degrades customer service. Sometimes it's not about the quality of your product as much as your concern for your customers.

The type of bait that he is talking about, that Lake fork makes, is segmated and swims on retreaval without a swimbait tail. Bill, wouldn't that be Do-It's wutzit? Since Caney no longer exists.

A few years back I sent him a hand injection mold and asked for a price quote on reproducing the mold. I was told I would have a price within a week, after a month I was told I would have a price within two weeks, after 8 months I had to call and ask for my mold to be sent back. I did get my mold back within a week but I never recieved the price. That expirience told me all I needed to know.

PM sent.

It seems like to me if the tail sections protrude out a little further than the body on each side, it should give you the action that you're looking for. I'm not sure if any of the baits you mentioned above do this but if you're looking for more side to side action just with a straight retrieval it seems like that would be the way to go. It probably won't take much protrusion but a little should bring on a lot of action. But then again, it's according to how soft your plastic is.

Why not buy red bug from lure works,no mixing.

Percabrutus, Welcome to TU! The swim baits look great. This is definatly not the place to find help for a plastic addiction, we all encourage the abuse All we can do is help feed your addiction, and by the way if you are married go ahead and buy your wife something very nice and expensive, that will help you when you place your next order for molds and supplies.

They no longer offer that mold,it is not on there site any more. I told you guys that the big boys look at TU.

like I said, petroleum jelly.