diemai

OK , ...you can read such even in modern lure catalogs from time to time ,..... I remember to have seen a Japanese crankbait with holes through it's lip recently , ....and there also is the over here wellknown French "Sandra" plastic lure line , which is a shad with a grub tail pierced with a line of holes said to cause little vortices to attract fish more : http://lurevideos.com/en/delalande-sandra/ But finally we would never know , what exactly makes a fish bite sucha pierced lure , ...simply because fish can't talk ! Greetz Dieter

Actually I do not know about the purpose of that hole other than mentioned in the video , but on two spoons I've mounted a bead inside of a bigger hole and I can't seem to notice any significant difference in swimming action , ...something , that I had already observed with other spoon models as well , ....to my eyes same way built models swim about the same pattern , no matter whether with bead holes or without . But I guess , if the hole would turn significantly larger , maybe like 12 to 18 millimetres dia on the 2" dia spoon , a difference would occur , ...I reckon , that the wiggle might decrease , since not so much pressure would build up on the reverse side anymore , as it increasingly releases through a bigger hole ? But , thought in reverse , ...if I have a spoon with a very deep cupping , ...like an ordinary soup spoon lure, for example , ....that turns on it's reverse side pretty quick even at moderate retrieve pace and only flutters up and down at this stage . An approbiate hole drilled into the deepest point of the soup spoon's cupping might release some of the water pressure to enhance a nice side-to-side wobble again , ... instead of the spoon just kinda hovering about with it's reverse side down ? ......but that's just theory , ........greetz , Dieter

@ RayburnGuy Thanks for the hint , Ben , ...coming weekendshift I'd start out with some more prototypes of thinner sheet to try out those ballast attachement methods , also winding solder wire around the hookshank , as you've suggested(do not have lead wire). The 1,5mm thick spoons do not require ballast in terms of their running dept , as they already do swim quite deep , ....or better said , they do not generate as much lift on retrieve as other , more elongated spoons would . The casting performance of the 1,5mm thick spoon is not that extraordinary poor , they are only a bit inferior to "ordinary" spoons of same weight , ...if I hazard a guess , the "Disc Spoons" only reach about 80% to 90% of the possible casting distance of those . By now I've also made a little tutorial about how I make a 2" disc spoon blank from copper sheet , but turned out more than 50 min long , so I've split it into two parts , ...by the end of part two there also is a bath tub sequence providing a better insight on the swimming action of these unique spoons : Part 1: Part 2 : Videos on how to polish finished spoons or making sucha wooden beating template are linked in the video describtion straight on YouTube . Greetz , Dieter

@ mark poulson Mark , I have already considered about trying similar , .....just replacing the center plastic bead like on two of the spoons with a round inline sinker ! But I have concerns , that these "Disc Spoons" would not wiggle anmore with added ballast , at least they barely wiggle anymore , when a dressed treble is attached instead of a plain one . I blame this on their lack of length , ......you see , the longer a spoon is , the longer the plane to provide guidance in the water , ......the cupped shape a spoon creates a lower water pressure at it's top side and a higher pressure at it's reverse side , this why the spoon has a tendency to turn over and swim topside up ! Now the weight of the spoon counterworks this tendency and it would fall back to a top side down level , but plus a little inertia it swings beyond that level and the two different water pressures push it to swing out to the opposite direction , ...thus the spoon wiggles . I think , if placing added ballast in the center of the spoon , one would have to increase the cupping in general in order to get somewhat more water pressure on the reverse side to be able to still let the lure wiggle attractively , ...but this could either turn into too much of a good thing as well , I reckon , .....in a nutshell ......TRIAL AND ERROR is in order ! I've recently come across spoons , ...so-called "Bunker Spoons" , that sport a lead keel , .......these are meant for trolling for various saltwater species , ..but I must admit , that it itches me to try my hands on such design as well, though in a smaller , castable size : @ saltwater I had seen sucha vintage lure before somewhere , it would surely work out on this design as well without losing swimming action , but I'd have to find out , if too many missed hook-ups would occur with that large rear treble . Greetz , Dieter

@ aulrich I knew , that you've meant these particular lures . There was a thread about 3D printing in here , ....utilize the search bar in the hardbaits topic typing in "3D printing" , you might come up with some results . BTW , ...lots of more luremaking videos on YouTube , utilize their search bar as well , ........here is a particular good one , that might lead you on the way : Good luck , Dieter

Just had a brief once-over , ....wow , this looks great , ...gotta get deeper into it , when I'd find the time . have been busy this afternoon making a little tut video about the "Disc Spoon" , ......will upload on YouTube within a day or two , .....thanks a lot again , ...greetz , Dieter

@ aulrich OK , ...I've found these two patterns , I guess , ......and they're pretty much versatile in terms of attaching different lips . Both styles of lips , downward pointing lexan lips mounted in a slot for shallow runners or screwed on metal lips for deep runners are possible to assemble , ...but with the latter you'd have to take the weight of the lip into consideration , also these would require a line tie on the lip . I figure out , that you've never started out on carving , so first thing you should do is to cut the lipslot while your blank is still square , as it gets pretty much difficult to cut a lipslot accurately on a readily shaped and rounded blank , ......same counts for screw-on metal lips . BUT , ......since such lips available in shops are often quite large and heavy , made of stainless steel , these might not match your fairly small and slender lures , as often they are designed for bigger musky lures and just add too much weight and render smaller lures nose-heavy ,.......good for diving performance but yet not for proper distance casting . Therefore I'm making my metal lips out of aluminium sheet , these are fairly ligther in weight and I never had issues with these for pike and zander(European walleye). Here is a Swedish discribtion on a simple pike lure sporting sucha homemade aluminium screw-on lip : http://realiserad.netai.net/Artiklar/pnkid.php ......and my own downscaled adaptions of this lure model : If you want to install such lips to these book designs , you'd need to furnish some kind of a plane and angled scoop on the chin of the lure , also whilst the blank is still in square , ...it is required to have a plane base to mount the lip onto , ......it works , I've made similar lure this was before . I do not want to persuade you out of your plans on which lure components to buy , but with homemade stuff you can just get more versatile in my opinion , ...all you need are differently sized screw eyes and some lexan sheet , at least for shallow divers , ...lip templates are accessible in the internet : http://www.mt-lures.de/uploads/1/7/5/6/17565369/tauchschaufeln_i.pdf http://www.mt-lures.de/uploads/1/7/5/6/17565369/tauchschaufeln_ii.pdf http://www.mt-lures.de/uploads/1/7/5/6/17565369/tauchschaufeln_iii.pdf For deep divers you might want use metal sheet lips or also lexan sheet , but in the latter case it would be approbiate to assemble the lure with a through wire harness , not screw eyes , as deep divers do require the line tie to be located on the lip , ....just like these ones : But in my opinion the book's lure patterns are not that much suited for installing such deep diving lips of lexan , simply because the nose tip of these lure patterns sits too high . Regarding lipless plugs , ...I find these to be more tricky sometimes(unless you work after proven patterns) , as do not have a chance to tinker on the lip, just in case , .....as a lexan lip could be shaved and a screw-on metal lip could be bent to a different angle or entirely substituted , if your lure should not perform . Also plugs with such intergrated diving vanes most likely wiggle at lower frequencies and don't dive as deep compared to lures sporting lexan -, or metal lips . And if you're concerned about having wasted you components in case your lure won't swim , .....just seal your sheer timber blank , pre-assemble all parts without glue and test your lure in a bath tub or fish tank , etc. , at this stage you might also experiment with the ballast amount and location , .......if you'd get it to swim , that's fine and you can assemble all parts permanently to get your lure ready for painting , ...and , ...well ,...if not , ...you have only wasted your wood and working time , ......and saved on painting -, and topcoating efforts ! Good luck , ......greetz , diemai

Off course differently sized , shaped or angled diving lips make up for different swimming actions , might even render your lure not to wiggle at all or on the other hand to blow out ! Impossible to tell on a distance , which lips would match your lures , you might at least provide some pictures to figure out better . Just took that book off my shelf , ...indeed there are no specs about the lips , ........probably you could use the scale and measurements given in the sketches there to determine about the size of lips . Just thumbed through , seems like there are only these screw-on metal lips required to accomplish the lures described , no lexan lips ? As far as I'm concerned , there are very few standard lips of this kind available in various component stores , so it would not be that hard to find them . But I just read now , that you've upscaled the given designs , so nothing left to do but making your own lips of approbiate , larger size , if you fairly want to keep the original design and swimming action . But I'm pretty much sure , that these lures might also perform with a few different lips and line tie configurations as stated in that book , ...only their action would get different to the author's originals . Please tell me about which lures you're making from that book(book page of lure sketch) , maybe I could give you some more hints , ...I'll keep the book next to my computer so far . Greetz , diemai

@ mark poulson Just made a couple of dozens of casts today , and I'm happy to report , that my concerns in terms of hook fouling went up in smoke , not even one single time the hooks did foul the leader ! These 1,5 mm thick "Disc Spoons" do not cast as well compared to more elongated ones of same sheet thickness , but due to their fairly heavy weight they still make up for a good casting distance , they do not level on flight anyhow , but tumble on flight , also fly off a staright course a bit , but not as much as I might have expected them to do . I've found , that these spoons maintain depth quite well , guess this is because one would retrieve them a bit slower than other spoon models and also the do not seem to generate as much lift . Would be different , when having them made from thinnner sheet like 1,0 mm or even 0,8mm , .....gonna a try this as well for a more shallow action , ...casting performance would surely get worse ! ........and you're not that much off talking about being "cracked up" regarding our fishing restrictions and regulations ! @ Griffond Thanks for wishing well , but sadly no catches occured today , ......but I'll keep on trying , ...at least I've shot a little video displaying these "Disc Spoons" : Greetz , Dieter

@ RayburnBuy Ben , I like your idea of fixing the bait by it's belly either , much more stable this way , A+ ! Greetz , Dieter

@ mark poulson Thanks a lot , Mark , ....gonna cast them on coming Monday or Tuesday for the first time , after my shift work weekend , .....really excited to find out about their casting performance . Lots of fishing restrictions over here , each state has it's own , ........as a rule of thumb no lurefishing allowed during closing time of pike and zander , even though other species like brown trout and especially perch could be fished for with lures , it's just most likely not allowed , until closing time for pike and zander would be through . One exception is the city of Hamburg , pike/zander closing time January 1st until May 15th(neighbor states have slightly different closing times) , but after Hamburg state fishing restrictions lurefishing is not particulary forbidden all year long . Every year there are new discussions on local sites about people casting 5" or even 6" plastic shads or crankbaits of same size during closing time claiming , that they'd be fishing for perch only(no closing time , no restricted legal size in Hamburg) , ......off course pike and zander would be more likely to bite such large lures rather than perch ! Even if these fellas would practice CPR only(which is illegal over here , at least according to our restrictions) and do not take any fish home , they should leave them alone to reproduce , .....in my opinion . Yes , in every case you must release a fish of any species caught accidently during it's closing time(or a species restricted to be caught at all)instantly , and you must not fish for these on intention as well . Sorry again for OT , guys , ..........greetz , Dieter

I must admit , that I'm more concerned about the joints and hinges , not the single body segments so much , .......but I'm really eager to see , with what you're finally gonna come up with ! BTW , .......I'm always enjoying such fun challenge builts as well , ...sometimes something real good would be the result , .....not always though ! Good luck , ....greetz , Dieter

@ saltwater ......but if fish would frequently shred your lure to pieces , that won't be funny either , even with easy and fast lure reproduction , ........I hope for you , that it would hold up well ! @ Griffond , @ scrubs Compared to different lure types I do not fish spinners that much anymore , actually no special reason for this ! @ all Here my first finished "Disc Spoons" , ......placed them in the gallery not to violate site rules , really looking forward to cast them next week . http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/13310-disc-spoons/ Greetz , Dieter

@ Griffond During my early luremaking years I used to paint my lures in the living room , using modelmaking enamels and a handbrush, .....even employed my wife and my , by that time , little daughter(now she's just turned 31 )for painting , ...both of them came up with some real weird , but in the end catching patterns , ........only did spoons and spinners back then , though . After came many years of rattlecan painting and nowadays I'm back with the handbrush , but using acrylic art paints either , .....compared to the modelmaking enamels these just provide better possibilities of mixing different tones or blending colors utilizing a wet-in-wet paint technique . Not many guys do paint by hand , but as far as I've seen , everyone would develop is own personal style , that one might even recognize by the lures alone . Guess , I've gotta do some redheads as well some day , ....really neglected this pattern through the years , ...you're really gonna have some fun at the water's edge with these GrandMas of yours , I suppose , ......greetz , Dieter

This is sounding like quite a bit of most finacky work , ...good luck with your venture , ...Greetz , Dieter

@ Griffond Surely it would still catch fish , if the action is right , ......what kind of paint are you usIng , ....solvent based or acrylics ? Greetz , Dieter

Just had some troubles editing my previous post , hope , it shows alright now ? I've read , that about 50% of cats caught over here do strike lures , the other half is caught on bait . Catfish lures do not have to be sophisticated in color and shape by any means , as these fish can't see very well , ....lures need to be bigger(any underwater muskie size lure will do) , very rigid and possibly cause a good commotion and noise , as cats do detect their prey by hearing , feeling and smelling . Catfishing is more common down south or west , in some places they even are considered a pest , as they reproduce and grow fairly fast , up here north we are still new to this kind of fishing . Though German record cats are at about 90" , many north European catfish anglers travel down south to Italy or Spain for the real big ones , possibly exceeding 100" . But having such fish on the line would surely scare the crap out of me ! Sorry for off topic a bit , .......keep them old lures coming , ...greetz , Dieter

@ Griffond Some more patience , please , my friend , ...I'm thinking to make a video displaying the making , a test run and , ...which would be best , .....a fish caught one one of these . The latter would be the hardest part , I guess , ...won't even be able to get done with the first spoons until May 1st , I reckon . Yes , our local European silure(catfish) is called "Wels" in northern Germany , ....but I reckon , the southern name "Waller" is a bit more common . Like 25 years ago these fish were almost abundant up here in the "Elbe" river water systems , really not worthwile fishing for them , .....but since a few years more and more local anglers do hook catfish fishing for "Zander´"(European walleye) or eel , ...of course only the smaller and average fish can be landed on lighter tackle . Just some 6 weeks ago one guy told me , that a big cat scratching 80" had shredded his surf rod to pieces last summer , some "Elbe" anglers use such beach gear to be able to cast heavy 5 to 8 ounces sinkers far out into the strong river current , ...another guy told me last summer , that he was lucky to land a catfish on zander gear , it struck a plastic shad , ....just like this one caught 2011 in the vicinity of the harbor of Hamburg , ...I'm familiar to this place : So , I'm hoping to catch one as well sooner or later , haven't fished the river that very often in the past , ..but in future i surely will , using my 10 foot catfish lure rod sporting 6 ounces lure weight . And I'd surely take one or two of these twin "disc spoons" along , as these seem to cause quite a commotion underwater . Greetz , Dieter

Hahaha , Bill , .....I did not have enough sleep for the last days due to my weekendshift work , must have been blind not to have figured out about this option , ....so sorry for the confusion , .......moderators might delete this thread , please . Greetz , Dieter

Hi , there I was just notified by a good friend of mine in here , that he had received a notification Email to point out a personal conversation to him , that I had lead with another friend of mine in here . Off course he also got access to read that conversation , that he was not involved into before and also was not invited to participate , ........in fact none of the previous two participants(myself and the other friend) had posted in that particular personal conversation for weeks now ! How come , that a notification was sent to a member , that was not participating and especially without any new contents written at all ? I'm leading personal conversations with both members , but never all the three of us joined into one conversation together, up to this day , ....at least , ...as the non participating friend just dropped me a note inside of that conversation , where he never participated nor was ever invited to join ! It's not , that I have something to hide , but these are personal conversations , not public posts , .....and now my friend and myself are wondering , whether still other TU members can have access to any personal conversations , which are not their own ? Some kinda error must have occured , .......people in charge should please check this out ! Thanks a lot , ....greetz , diemai

........so am I , .......hope it would work , as it's so elaborate . Just got home from my weekendshift , cut out and ground to shape some more "disc-spoons" , also pre-shaped the cupping on most of them . Trying to get them done at home this week , .....two workmates , both of them ardent fishermen as well , did already show great interest in the design......."you're gonna make one for me , too , ... are you , ..just to try " ?..... , ..... , ...one of them even wanted to snatch the copper sheet yet unpolished prototype off my workbench to take it along to the season opening tourney of his fishing club May 1st , ..........but I refused , as I still need it as a sample to check for the cupping on the rest of my blanks . But I had to promise him one finished spoon until local Father's Day May 29th , another tourney taking place then . Made them in different sizes , 30 mm , 50 mm(like the one shown) and 70 mm diameter, .......the latter will be a twin spoon , two spoons of thinner sheet connected with the splitrings to hopefully generate some more noise in the water , ..these large ones would be for catfish , the large European silure . I hope , that in the end all would perform as well as my initial prototype , ........greetz , Dieter

@ tanderson4 Now , that's a cute little machine , ......looks like it would perfectly match your demands , ..still I would advise you to read all of the customer's reviews to help you to decide on a purchase . Had a brief once-over , looks like most customers are alright with it , though they are also talking about little flaws and issues(underpowered , tailstock screw problems) . But one guy wrote , that he did turn a file handle from 1 1/2" dia maple ,..... this convinces me , that it would be suitable for making topwater lures , since these are made from softer and less dense timber compared to maple . 12" space between the tips is also more than enough for normal plugs , unless you want to turn down baseball club sized muskie lures . So well , remember to keep your chisels sharp , ....good luck ,..... greetz , diemai