diemai

Yes , I definately think so that the top fore end of the lurebody(the portion behind the diving lip) enhances the dive in that case , as it's plane, if I may call it this way , is at about the same angle like the diving lip's plane . Diemai, Do you think the over all shape of the top of the bait helps with the diving depth?..Both the picture Joliepa posted and the little Aussie bait you posted have the diving bill and the top of the bait at the same angel...It's almost like the body of the bait is a extension of the diving bill.... Nathan Also the scooped out noses on some vintage lure models should serve the same purpose , I guess : http://joesoldlures.com/hurricane/katrina246.jpg http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.oudkunstaas.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Heddon-Vamp-Spook.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.oudkunstaas.nl/category/collection/page/7/&h=538&w=717&sz=24&tbnid=HHMxUz1uyO3ZoM:&tbnh=91&tbnw=121&zoom=1&usg=__HvBBtm8_6kDkykbH4lcpsWS2JrI=&docid=V39i5w0RnVGk2M&sa=X&ei=K4KKUp-fL4OUtQaJzIDoCg&ved=0CF8Q9QEwBg&dur=4207 http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tacklecollecting.com/images/EarlyRRwHooks.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.tacklecollecting.com/earlyriverruntcolors.htm&h=177&w=300&sz=16&tbnid=k1RY8WqhKSuJLM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=153&zoom=1&usg=__QIIz6mAyal6Zp1VZb4h_ePtqMKA=&docid=lNrf3jqzxIi0PM&sa=X&ei=XIKKUob_KcmctAa-34CYCw&ved=0CFQQ9QEwBQ&dur=254 Greetz , Dieter

You might try this out putting the line tie somewhat lower down the lip , ...would lower the frequency of wobble and decrease diving depth . But maybe those "Bananas" are an option for you , you can make them quite buoyant as well depending on timber material being used , also the more pronounced the body curve , the shallower they will run . I have made a certain model in sizes of 2 1/4" to 6" of abachewood , the largest one would dive down to about 8-10 feet the smallest would run at 2 1/2 feet approx , but as stated , body curve and buoyancy also do their share to finally set the diving depth . They do not dive down as steeply as lipped "Bananas" , so it's easier to control the lure , when approaching the shallows on it's way from deep to shallow water simply let it pop upward and continue your rerieve at a slower pace and with upward pointing rodtip . Greetz , Dieter

Which video exactly , Mark , ..there are a few more . Check out post #20 in this old thread : http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/13043-new-banana-lure/?hl=%2Bbanana+%2Blures Or do mean such line ties for integrated narrow lips : http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2752-line-tie-construction-in-progress/ http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2753-line-tie-construction-in-progress/ http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2754-line-tie-construction-in-progress/ Greetz , Dieter

@ joliepa A lure of sucha body shape as shown would not swim with a lip at a steeper angle(I suppose , you mean pointing more downward) . The curved downward tail acts like a rudder of a submarine , so to speak , guiding the lure downward , ....the wider and/or the longer the tail end , the stronger this effect . And as the lurebody does not have much of sidward stability in the water , it wont go down straight , but somewhat sideward . Now at this stage you'd need a bigger , pointing forward lip , that counterworks by the water pressure working on the lower part of the lip providing the tendency to push the lure back on track . A small downward pointing lip cannot generate enough force to push the lure back on track , first , because it's plane is too small , ...and second , even more important , I guess , ......it's steeper , downward angle just is not suitable to shoulder well into the oncoming water pressure genereated by the line pull , .......as a result your lure would overturn and blow out . Heavy belly ballast could help to keep such lures swimming stable , ...but , ..as a rule of thumb , pronouncedly curved bodies and downward pointing lips do not go together that well . If your friend did shave off a bit of the tip of the lip of the bait shown , this would surely decrease the diving depth of the lure , as a smaller lip plane generates less force to push the lure downward , simply because it's resistance in the water is now smaller . Also the wiggle of the lure would be less , either in it's frequency or the width of it's sideward movements , but most likely both of these features would become less intense . But since the dynamics of any lure were designed to perfectly match one another , is may get hazardous trying to tinker on one of these , especially the lip size and angle , ........you may simply waste your lure , if you do too much , .....some lure models would be tinkering-friendly , but others might not forgive the slightest change ! So , the big and thick lip on your lure is to generate a very pronounced and strong wobble in conjunction with the curved tail , .....the designer would have made it that thick and strong to add weight , thus balance , to the front part , ...and second , ...to make it stable and rigid , as a deep diving lure often ploughs rocky or gravel bottoms , thus requires to be of a certain stability . A thinner lip would have about the same effect in terms of diving action , but naturally is lighter in weight and especially not as stable in terms of rough treatment . In terms of such baits getting stuck , when retrieving from deep into shallow water(bank fishing) : I often fish this way , too , and if not using metal lures , I prefer shorter bodied hardbaits with a big and long deep diving lip over baits with more elongated bodies like your's shown . Most likely the shorter bodied baits dive down at a more nose down level compared to the longer bodied ones , ......I guess , this is because the shorter bodies do concentrate all of their buoancy closer to the lip's base and therefore also the oncoming water pressure on retrieve cannot press their bodies downward as much , .........as a result the belly hook stands off the bottom a bit more resulting into fewer sngs with such baits compared to deep divers with elongated bodies . Also because of the previously mentioned concentrated buoyancy , the shorter bodies lures lift off the bottom a more nose down position , also getting the belly hook off the bottom a tad faster tis way . What you'd need for the described water conditons would be a short bodied lure of high buoyancy sporting a long lip to detect bottom impact instantly to be able to pause the retrieve to let the lure lift back up again . Problem is , that a long lip might let a lure dive too deep for your swim , thus you need your lure to be very buoyant to counterwork diving depth and also the let it pop away from obstacles , ......you might also rig just one tail hook only and skip a belly treble , if your lure is not that large in size . Also pronouncedly curved , buoyant and wide bodies as shown on my gallery picture linked below decrease a bit of possible diving depth , as I've found through the years : http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/9847-small-aussie-style-diver/ Good luck , Dieter

@ Pickadoll I need glasses , did not figure out about a tail on the lures , ....only saw , that it's glide was perfect ! So your remarks of the lure action with and without the tail attached are very interesting to me , as I've always thought , that a grub's tail attached to a glider would slow down the glide of a bait , rather act like a parachute to it . But now I figure out , that it must provide a certain grade of guidance in the water to the lure , thus it does glide better into a wider glide path , .......that tail is probably somewhat comparable to the flights of an arrow ! Clear to me , that without the tail the lures turns 180° , as the lengthwise guiding lacks this way . But probably it also depends on the shape of the tail , a rather slender kinda worm tail would provide less resistance , wheras a wider one of a monster grub type would produce more drag . Anyway , very interesting , ......thanks a lot to share your findings and for opening my eyes , ........live and learn , now I might make try to make one as well , .......greetz , diemai

Welcome aboard , Ryan , ...so glad that you've made your way in here upon me having mentioned TU in a YouTube conversation . Told you before in my YouTube comment , that I'm really fond of your style of lures and the way , that you do paint them with a handbrush . Very interesting write-up on your personal motivations to have started out lure carving , ........enjoyed the read ! .....and be sure , ....there are a lot of great fellas in here , that would attend to you , if you should have further questions on any aspects of luremaking , ....wecome aboard , ...greetz , Dieter

Perfect gliding action , I'd say , ......this is how a glidebait is supposed to swim ! I'm always wondering , how some fellas get access to seemingly public indoor swimming pools for luretesting , ......or you just go early Sunday morning , when people are still sleeping and take your rod and lures along , ......in this case the staff would surely think , that you're completely crazy ! Greetz , diemai

@ Nathan Interesting design , .....matching to my own theory the lip of your lure is a bit on oversize to provide a pronounced wobbling action to overcome the drag of both the two blades and the little tinsel on the rear hook . When disassembling blades and tinsel , the lure might turn over and blow out , I reckon ? @ RayburnGuy I have forgotten about your design , Ben , I see that I had commented on it , ......guess , it had inspired me to do my own as well back then ! Greetz , Dieter

@ djhaddix Very glad , if I was able to provide some help , ......forgot to explain about the counterrotating blades , sorry . I was refering to a pair of spinnerblades of same size , but spinning in different directions , clockwise and counterclockwise . Came accross such blades years ago in a US tackle catalog , even ordered for some back then : http://lurepartsonline.com/Shop-By-Category/Doc-Shelton-Blades/Premium-Finish-Doc-Shelton-Blades.html If you read the describtion above , you will find , that odd numbered blades point right and even blades point left , which means , that both blade shapes would turn into different directions . Problem is , that a set of counterrotating blades always consists of two different sizes , ....won't matter that much , when assembling your blades fore and aft of your crankbait , but won't work mounting them on either side of your lure . To overcome this problem , you can either make your blades at home or take a pair of ordinary Indiana blades of same size and grind away material on opposing sides to achieve the same shape and thus the same counterrotating effect like on those original Doc Shelton blades . BTW , ...these sets of DS blades can be used on spinnerbaits , but I've also made a few double-bladed weight forward spinners with them , the opposite turning directions elimate line twist quite a bit ,..... if not completely , as the blade's centrifugal forces works in both directions . Just pops into my mind , ....3 1/2 years ago I've made two simple plugs also sporting attached spinnerblades , ..both of these have a nice wiggle , ....the smaller one dives down to about 2 1/2 feet max. , the larger one remains close below the surface due to it's more voluminous body providing more buoyancy . Sadly I can't remember , whether they have any belly ballast , ...but I don't think so , as I've experienced , that added ballast does dampen the action of such plugs with integrated diving vanes . http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2693-spinner-plugs/ http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2694-spinner-plugs/ http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2695-spinner-plugs/ Good luck , diemai

Sorry , third video did not link in previous post , .....here ist is : Good luck , diemai

As spinnerblades do provide some kinda drag to a wobbling lure , they definately slow down the wiggle . Cast a Colorado blade inline spinner and a willowleaf bladed spinner , and you will find , that the Colorado makes you feel a lot more resistance and throb in the rodtip than the willowleaf does . Same thing is , if you'd attach such blades to a diving wobbler , Colorados would tend to slow down the wobble more than Willowleaf blades would . Also all spinnerblades do have the tendency to rise to the surface , when spinning , .....again Colorados much more than Willowleaf blades , ...this is why the latter are used for spinners supposed to be cast into current river waters , ...in conjunction with a sufficiently heavy body they'd simply swim deeper , .....whereas Colorado blades can be used for spinners , that are intended to run very shallow or even just below the surface , ........best example are the even double-bladed so-called "Bulger Spinners" , that cause a wake on the surface . All other spinnerblade types are somewhere inbetween the two mentioned types with their features . One more property of spinning blades is a certain grade of a centrifugal force , that might also take a wobbling lure out of it's balance , should be taken into consideration , when rigging two blades aside of the lurebody as sketched above , .....here the centrifugal force would double . Well , .....so many negative things sounding like spinnerblades an diving wobblers won't go together , ......but don't worry , it is possible . If you want to design a crankbait with spinnerblades attached to it , you will have to take into consideration , that the blade definately slows down the wiggle , no matter what location on the lure it is placed . To encounter this problem , you need a lure , that comes up with a very strong and pronounced wobble right from the start , nevertheless the spinning blade would slow the wobble down , .....but as the wobble has been so strong before , enough wiggling action will be left with bade(s) attched ! So , in a nutshell , ...lures sporting just a subtle wiggle are not suitable to attach blades to it , they'd just come in like a dead stick after the modification . If rigging two blades on either side or fore and aft of a crankbait , you might want to have these blades counter rotating , as this way any centrifugal forces possibly spoiling the balance are eliminated . And , ......the smaller the blades , the lest drag , lift and centrifugal force they generate , ...so if you're not happy with your lure action in the end , always try to switch to a smaller blade size first , this might do the trick . I had already made lure prototypes with spinnerblades attached , just out of curiosity , .......you may see them on video : Check at 0:30 , 2:04 and 18:18 Check at 1:07 and 9:36 . In the third video as from 6:50 on I'm talking about a blade fixed at the tip of the diving lip won't spin but only flutter(please check next post of mine , did not link in this one anymore) . Hope that my remarks may help a bit regarding the execution of your projects , ...good luck with it , diemai

Thanks a lot for further replies , friends , .....maybe I should really get my self an issue of "Spoonplugging , your guide to lunker catches" , ...sounds interesting to me . By reading in the web , I figure out , that these spoons are also supposed to be dragged along the bottom , ...hence your snag warning , Curt ? Probably one could remove the belly treble or at least bend it's points towards the shank in case a removal would disturb the balance of the lure . Sounds to me , that they might be great to substitute the over here very common and popular plastic shads to fish for perch and zander(European walleye) . Don't like plastic lures too much and I had used spoons to catch zander before , these were heavy 1 3/4 inch "Rock't Daredevles" and 45grams German "EffZett" spoons ,.....spoons heavy enough to toss them slowly along the bottom at up to 45 feet . But because of the danger of snagging I've only did it from a boat so far . Anyway , ...thanks again for your infos , guys , .......greetz , Dieter

@ crankbaits Thanks a lot for your hint , ......I had read about that book before , ...but to be honest , I do not feel like investing in it yet , as I was first looking for some angler to angler info in here . Anyway , but if you tell me , that it would be well suited for casting as well , I'd move ahead trying to purchase a few , ....just lost the recent bidding on some spoonplugs on US Ebay last Sunday night , as I had to go to sleep before auction ended , ...darn time difference ! But surely some day I would succeed , .........thanks a lot for your reply , ...greetings , Dieter

Rushed to get the blank done at my last day weekend shift last night , .....now soaking in propionate , ..can't weight for a first blank test to see , whether it would perform at all . Greetz , Dieter

I did a few of this style before : http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2846-a-version-of-the-old-pikie/ http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/4135-rubber-o-ring-pikies/ For our local pike glued in screweyes are OK , but for Muskie you might probably want to go thru-wired , ........quite easy to turn down on a lathe , a Dremel sanding drum takes care of the nose plane . Making the lips of aluminium sheet 1,5mm , stainless steel would render those smaller versions too nose-heavy for good casting , I guess . I've also read somewhere , that during the 1990's a genuine "Creek Chub Pikie" held the British record for pike . Greetz , Dieter

@ mark poulson , @ scrubs Hope that your projects are going to work out for the both of you , ......last night at my shiftwork I had a fancy idea about a reverse running glidebait , roughly fish shaped with an insinuated tail fin , to which the line tie would be attached . I would even taper the flanks towards the tail fin , so that the most buoancy of the timber blank would be in the rear , much more ballast could be placed there then to let the lure dart sharply sideward . ........at least that's the theory .....! Gonna start out a prototype these days or maybe next weekend , ...I shall see . Greetz , Dieter

...........next time , Mark ! Greetz , Dieter

Yes , Bill , I was inspired by their shape , ......but other than a popper my lures do sink and are worked as gliders . I'm also using 9 feet spinning rods , ......got one for the warm season with a casting weight of 20-50 grams( one ounce= 28 grams)to work smaller lures as well a,d another one one with a casting weight of 30-80 grams for heavier and bigger lures in fall . Casting all kinds of lures with these stiffish rods , topwater plugs , gliders , plastics , spinners , spoons and wobblers alike , ...most likely from the bank as well , but also doing a few occassional boat sessions . Thus the compromise of 9 feet length , but also because of having to work glidebaits with rodtip down , ...if not because of this , I'd surely go up to 11 or 12 feet for better casting performance from the bank . As a bank angler I need a multi-purpose rod (though such does not exist) , that can fulfill as many tasks as possible , can't carry two or even more rods along ! Greetz , Dieter