diemai

@ Griffond Painting straight on foil won't adhere well or might not even provide sufficient paint coverage ! Foiled lures do require one or two epoxy coats straight on the foil as a primer , ...also these epoxy coats even out any small wrinkles or uncovered spots(of foil) at back or belly of the lure blank . Greetz , Dieter

Interesting method , ...so you do not cut a lipslot but rather make a deep groove with a router bit , I had done this once before , somewhat more elaborate that cutting a simple slot IMO , but surely more stable , might also provide better options to align the lip absolutely right-angled by making the groove wider at the right spots , .....the whole thing would be filled up with glue , anyway . Thanks for sharing , ...cheers , Dieter

Click on "more reply options" bar down right of the reply square , ...another window would open up , where you can access your own computer's picture files , .....select file , chose picture and upload , .......finally add to post . Good luck , diemai PS : ...one always got to have the last word , mate , ...but most likely it's not us , but our better halves

I can really imagine any wife in this world putting things exactly right and having the last word on any topic ! Cheers ,Dieter

Still had these left , as I used them as sliding weights on my "Weightshifter" lures , ...also using .177 round pellets and dia. 7mm leadballs from a local supplier : http://www.shop-011.de/maxe-s70h1-Blei-Kugeln.html I would pre-drill the weight holes and widen them to approbiate ball shape with some Dremel ball router bits , a bit more elaborate than just drilling matching holes , but this way I don't take away more material than neccessary . Might also consider about getting some pencil lead 8mm or 10 mm for bigger lures , .....would be easy just to snip off required lengths : http://www.shop-011.de/maxe-s71h1-Blei-Profile-Bleista.html But a couple of weeks ago I had just bought 50 lbs of 1mm leadsheet from a local scrapyard ,.... though sold as scrap it is still in a good condition without any paints or other tarnished layers on it , I intend to melt it for casting heavier disc sinkers for river fishing , but I'm also using it for lure trimming . Either placed into belly slots of through wired lures or cut into strips rolled up to small drums and comprimed a bit to be placed into belly holes . Did such rolled up sheet weight chunk for the largest of the abachewood bananas . Greetz , Dieter

Just put them in the waterbucket today to determine about ballast amount and location , ...also glued in ballast , after they had dried , ......gonna skip another blank test and gonna start priming tomorrow evenning . Since I'm not the fastest of a luremaker and due to my time consuming painting processes , it would not be before 10 days , until I would have them finally done , maybe even a fortnight ? BTW , ...on the biggest teakwood lure I had to fix the ballast off center , just like Warren had suggested , ...no other chance to have it float up straight and leveled , ........first bait ever I've trimmed this way , really eager to try it for action . The weight locations determined were just like Vic had said , a little behind the front hook hanger , .....only with the smallest abachewood lure I had to place a flattened .22 cal round airgun pellet right in front of the belly hook hanger to have the lure float up horizontally on the surface , looks like the significantly smaller body volume in relation to hooks and hardware changes things quite a bit . greetz , Dieter

I see , obviously some different opinions in here , at least about what really causes a bait to glide . But I do agree with jamie about buoyant and less buoyant materials , I try choosing the materials accordingly to the intended size of a glidebait , ...the smaller the bait , the more buoyant the material . For example , a big glider out of balsa would requires to be hopelessly overloaded with lead before even reaching neutral buoancy , most likely the lureblank would not be large enough to drill all the leadholes neccessary , ...on the other hand a 2 1/2" or 3" flat bodied glider of heavier hardwood would surely require a certain amount of belly ballast to have it leveled upright , but would descend too fast with that ballast , ..not to talk of a possibly insufficient glide action . I think , that the truthful crankbait rule-of-thumb about too much ballast weight killing the action does not count as much for glidebaits , ...simply because they do not wobble , but just dart and glide ,.... at the most there are some models , that sport a certain tremble or belly shake at the descend , with the latter these ballast issues could possibly play their part , I reckon . But when a glidebait tends to sink like a brick due to being overweighted , it surely would not have any chance to glide very far , that's what I'm sure of , too . These lures here do look like glidebaits , but they are approx. 3 1/4" so called Seatrout Wobblers used at the local German Baltic Sea beaches to hunt after seatrout early in the year . I've made these recently on request of an angler living further up north of my home state , his paramount demand was a quiver or belly shake on descend , as seatrout love this lure action and it most often triggers strikes , as the retrieve is paused and the lure quivers downward . Also these lures have to be heavy enough to be able to cast behind the first breaking waves , ..their action on a straight retrieve is quite poor , they just come back sporting a subtle wave pattern . My lures do fullfil both of these essentials perfectly , that guy was very happy with them . I had weighted these tru-wired lures by simply putting a piece of 1,0 mm leadsheet to fill up the entire belly slot underneath the wireform , ...this way these lures sink at about 15" per second or even a tad more , so a lot faster than any good glidebait would . You cannot impart any kind of gliding action to them , ....first they are too heavily weighted , second the ballast is spread all over their entire length , not concentrated at one or two locations fore and aft , ....just like the two PVC experimentals in my video above , these do not glide as well , though descending a lot slower than these Seatrout Wobblers . Greetz , Dieter

Ups , ...probably I did not understand well at first , .....if so , ..I'd always fill up these gaps with glue and work the flush after curing , ...might also use some kinda putty . Cheers , diemai

Hi , People , A little update , .......apart from the two lures shown above I've made three more baits with even bigger circular lips , all readily painted and topcoated by now , and in terms of an extensive lure test at the fishing club's pond yesterday I've tested and also tuned them . Looks like I still have to learn a lot more about this circular lip stuff , .......as it seems , the edge between a hunting action , a straight wobble and a blow-out is quite narrow , ....depending on blank shape and cross section , ballast or no ballast and also on the diameter of the circular lips , tow eye location as well , off course . Since I have tested a bunch of 22 lures in total , the video turned out to be quite long , almost 40 minutes , but after the intro I had started out with swimming these particular round lipped minnows first , ....and a little summary of them can be seen as from 33:51 on , so you might skip forward . Greetz , Dieter

Probably try using a thicker lip material ? Cheers , 61diemai

@ mark poulson Mark , ...it is not quite correct , that he desired horizontal sink level dictates the ballast location , ..if so , the entire belly ballast could be placed at the lengthwise center of gravity , for example at the deepest part of the belly . But if it comes to sit somewhere about centered between nose and tail end , it would not do much to enhance a sideward glide there . But this really depends on the particular shape of the bait , ....I have designed sinking glidebaits with a fatter rear end , thus the rear carries more ballast than the front , still maintaining a horizontal sink level , ....the principle is the same like the topwater walking bait , that you've mentioned . The inertia of the heavier rear Ballast PUSHES the bait forward(the lighter front ballast is just for the horizontal sink level , without the bait would blow out soon) , and since there is not much of a guidance in the water , it darts to one side ,.....on the following jerk the bait is forced back on the straight track towards the rodtip and as soon as the line falls slack again after a splitsecond , it darts to the opposite side , ....and so forth . Other gliders , like the "Heiddy"(aka "the Roach")in my video above or a "Zig-Zag" glider work different . (lower bait is a "Zig-Zag" glider) http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/4329-4-sinking-gliders/ Here the main ballast sits in the front , right below the chin , ...the rear ballast is lighter , just serves to level the lure , ....even the "Heiddy" does not require any rear ballast at all . With these baits the principle goes that the heavier front weight is PULLED forward by the rod tip's jerk , but the bigger or higher nose portion of the lure shoulders into the water guiding the lure sideward , ..in case of the "Zig-Zag" also randomly up or downward , ........next step is the same like above mentioned rear weighted baits , ....the next jerk forces the bait back into the line pull and when the line falls slack , it darts into the opposite direction . It's a bit difficult to explain , ..I'm not a physicain , ..but this is my personal explanation ! @ griffond I can't tell about the exact amount of weight , ....wood is a natural product , even within a single wood dowel you may have different densities , .......I always seal my readily carved blanks to prevent water sepage and test them individually for their sink rate and sink level in a waterbucket , taping on different weights at possibly different locations , until I'm satisfied , ......off course hardware , hooks and a wire leader should be pre-assembled , too . But bear in mind , that the sink rate of your lateron finished bait would be somewhat higher than determined in this waterbucket test , as you would drill away buoyant material to embed your weight into the lure , also paint and topcaot add a tad of weight to the lure . Greetz , Dieter

@ Griffond Don't think , that such would work out to a glide , ...been into some experiments about two years ago : My opinion is , that all neccessary ballast has to be concentrated at only one or two locations of the the lureblank , these locations do depend on outer shape and general design , .....the goal should be a horizontal sink level , thus the amount of weight on each location would most likely vary and has to be determined individually . Virtually the buoyant lureblank kinda pivots around the concentrated ballast accelerated by the initial jerk of the rod , thus the bait glides to the sides . Greetz , Dieter

@ mark poulson Probably of advantage , that my work is already making me sick , ...so I don't sense the rest ! Sorry about your issues , Mark , ..gotta be smarter next time , my friend ! Greetz , Dieter

@ Griffond Probably this is going to be an interesting thread ! For about two decades now these glidebaits(over here in Europe we refer to them as jerkbaits) have really shook up pike fishing over here . During the early 1990's some tackleshops and probably also a handful of fishermen brought a few of those big and heavyy muskie gliders across the great pond to Europe , though nobody really knew what to do with these baits and how to fish them . Not even the essential heavy , short and stiffish casting rods were available over here , approbiate casting reels were also hard to find , especially not the ones sporting a left hand wind , which is most common over here . In the local angling press there were a few enthusiasts around intensively promoting these "new" baits , and bit by bit they have made their way into the lureboxes of European pike anglers , ......to fulfill the spreading demand , suitable gear and tackle was thrown on the local market as well through the following years . Soon also European lurecarvers discovered the potential of such baits , and because flat sided gliders are quite easy to make at home , many , many folks started out making their own , ..up until present days . Just utilize the search function of "YouTube" typing in "jerkbait" or a similar term , there are heaps of glidebait test videos and also tutorial videos around . Also people soon realized , that it was not really neccessary getting their arms sore throwing those heavy 8" baits made after American muskie lures , and a process of downsizing these glidebaits began , both for the home tinkeres , but also within the tackle industry . Smaller glidebaits could also be worked with more ordinary rods and reels , one could carry along one rod for all types of lures , no matter what glidebaits , plastics , spoons , spinners or crankbaits , .......as a good share of European anglers do fish from the bank only (boats are often restricted), therefore are unable to carry a big selection of lures and rods with them . And also not only pike would strike smaller glidebaits , but also zander(walleye) , perch and asp : As far as I'm concerned , the smallest glidebait available on the local market today is only 2" in length , the "Salmo Slider" , both in a sinking and floating version , ......has already eraned a first class reputation to be a proven catcher . Since many years I've been through the proccess of building glidebaits as well , .....I also like them smaller to be able to work them with an average spinning rod , ...but I've found , that the smaller they get , the harder they are to trim to perform well , .......but I must admit , that I haven't tried making 2" gliders for too often , 3" baits always came along fine , though . I have learned , that if making smaller gliders , one needs to use more buoyant material compared to the "ordinary" 5" to 7" gliders , ...this is simply because the lure has to carry a sufficient amount of ballast , which virtually is the "engine" of the bait , bringing it into the desired glide mode . If the lurebody is already minor buoyant , and also the hardware adds weight to it , off course , one might not be able to place enough ballast anymore without having the lure sink like a brick , ...which is most likely not of advantage , because it looks unnatural and also the bait would vanish out of sight for the predator too fast , ........this desired slow sinkrate is also refered to as "hang time" amongst muskie anglers , I've read somewhere . My personal fastest sinkrate is about 1 1/2 feet per second , but which surely would be too fast for many glidebait anglers , ...but often I fish waters up to 45 feet deep , ...and I don't feel like waiting 'til eternity , before the bait would have descended all the way down to work it along the bottom ! If you're new to glidebaits and you'd be looking for some input , ..check out this site , ...quite a bit of instructions and templates to be found there : http://www.lurebuilding.nl/indexeng.html For a newbie I can highly recommend the model "The Roach" , aka "Heiddy" , ....the successful bait in my little video above , .....it is easy to fish and also easy to build , as it requires only ONE ballast location , ...has a lively , random and pronounced gliding action , not only left/right , but also darting up, -or downward on occassion . ........and it can also be made in various sizes keeping the general dimension relations . Good luck , Dieter

Looking forward to see Irish perch as well(and homemade perch lures , probably ?) , ......greetz , diemai

Just rated and commented straight on Youtube , .......welldone , mate ! Cheers , diemai

@ scrubs Yeah , ...guess I'm going to utilize rubber bands or insulation tape to fix temporary ballast , ....pretty sure , that I could get them to perform . Like Vic said , it would take just enough ballast to have the lure sit straight and leveled , by getting heavier than neccessary one might give away some of the possible swimming action , I assume . @ littleriver Once more your hints are worth as gold , Vic , .......I was thinking about placing the weights higher into the interior of the blanks , ...now I'm gonna keep them close to the belly . Don't worry about being unable to tell the exact weight of the ballast , it has to be determined individually , anyway . Probably I might not get to proceed this weekend , working weekend shifts now , ..not that much leisure time , but surely I'll keep you updated . Thanks a lot , ..greetz , Dieter

Hi , Folks , Just a quick update , .........gave my three abachewood "Pfeffers" a Brief swim in the tub this morning , .......ALL of them hang lopsided , the bigger 4" Version about 45° , the smallest version only 10° , the other one somewhere inbetween , , ....I guess this is because of the relation between hardware and buoyant material , that the smallest , lest voluminous lure performs the best ! The smallie still swam reasonably well , the two bigger ones naturally did not . I think , that the problem also results from the crossections of the lure , ..the belly portion is somewhat wider than the back , this certainly provides some kind of sideward instability . On the other hand , this instability is essential to have the lure hunt , without it it would probably only come back straight sporting a little wiggle . So well , ..I guess , I've got to place just enough belly weight to have the lure swim JUST upright , ...maybe not even placing ballast out of center , but centered ,........any more ballast than this would dampen the action , both in terms of wiggling and also hunting , .........gonna be delicate to trim , I guess ! Cheers , Dieter

Here ya go : http://www.lurebuilding.nl/indexeng.html http://wobblerbaujw.jimdo.com/schablonen/ Diving lip templates download under "Tauchschaufeln" , some commercial bait's X-rays under "Röntgenbilder": http://www.mt-lures.de/download.html Also check out the links in this thread , .....maybe you'd be lucky to find something there , ...but there really are not too many lure templates around , as far as I'm concerned . http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/26561-other-forums/?hl= other lure sites Which kinda lure templates you're looking for in particular ,...... lures for bass , trout or muskie/pike lures ? Greetz , diemai

@ littleriver Vic , ...in my opinion your version even has a better action than the original , ...just watched that first video prior to this one ! I see , that the bucktail rig about compares to the original , but with the untied rear hook it surely swims somewhat livelier , especially in terms of a hunting pattern , ...this is just great ! Thanks a lot for having taking the effort to display , really amazing ! I figure out , that I also won't getting around placing ballast in my own versions , ...just got done with my three differently sized abachewood versions this weekend , these blanks came out very light . Now they are soaking in propionate , could probably do first testing by Thursday or Friday after the following propionate dips would have cured , .........gonna keep you updated in here . @ wchilton Thanks again for your thoughts , Warren , ..... sounds very logical to me and there surely is point about it . I have often used scrap wood from old furniture , namely stool and table legs of beechwood , a common local hardwood , .....turned these down to spindle-shaped sinking glidebaits . I must admit , that I had never bothered about the previously mentioned hydro test for these , .......due to the heavy belly ballast making up for sink rates of up to one foot per second , there were no issues about lopsided swimming , anyway . Or maybe I was only lucky , since I always took care , that the woodgrain would come to sit about parallel to the water's surface(no problem with round lureblanks) , so that the screweyes would pass crosswise through the grain . Anyway , ..thanks for making us smarter with your ínputs , .......also thanks again , Vic , ...wish my own Pfeffer knock-offs would turn out to swim at least a little bit like yours , ....greetz , Dieter

Thanks a lot , ...just checked briefly , but access is very slow for me , sites hardly open up , ....gonna check back somewhen later . cheers , diemai

Very interesting read , ..never could imagine , that water temps would have sucha significant influence . greetz , diemai

Do you lay you spoons flat to dry ? Just thinking , that the still liquid topcoat would flow down the spoon's cupping towards the rim building up a thicker layer there , ..thus probably take longer to cure ? I've done spoons with epoxy topcoats as well , layed them onto their polished reverse side to dry , but never had any issues like you . I've covered spoons plated with hologram scale foil , aluminium tape or also glitter flakes this way , but using epoxy only . Greetz , diemai