diemai

@ littleriver Thank you so much for these pictures and detailed information about swimming action , shape and cross secction , Vic , ....even a swimming level foto , ...this is great , very kind from you , helps a great deal . Guess , I need to make a design sketch in front of the computer screen , once I'd find the time for it , ....gonna use the teakwood of an old garten chair , that a workmate had given me years ago . The way you've described the swimming action , it sounds like a perfect topwater pike bait , ....a so-called "skim-and-swim" lure generating surface commotion , but yet still has an underwater action on a straight retieve . If so , it would be definately bound to catch pike , too ! @ scrubs The best way to reproduce a bait is having access to an original lure , no way . Made my first "Rush Tango Minnows"(very easy to shape on a lathe)after simple book picture instructions , ....but when I was presented with an original repaint(not worth that much amongst collectors) , I've still found little differences to my own models . But on the other hand , working just by pictures , you might create an entirely different and productive lure as well , .........f.e. many years ago I've made my first "Lazy Ike" knock off just after a side view picture , .....had to guess on the top view , .......on first trials this little banana lure had produced three larger pike within one week of vacation back then , and also spawned an entire line of homemade banana lures for me . Couple of months ago I've got an original vintage plastic "Lazy Ike" off US Ebay , ....just to see , that compared to my very first straight-bodied knock-off it is tapered down the tail , ...something , I could not see by that picture back then , ....but still my own model had stuck ,....... by now I'm making most of my banana lures WITHOUT a tail taper . Thanks again , folks , gonna keep you informed , ....greetz , Dieter

@ littleriver Off course such old lures would still work nowadays , ...provided that they' d have a built-in fish attracting appeal . If you have vintage models , that were made and sold for many years or even decades , you can be sure , that these do fulfill this demand , otherwise they would have vanished from the market very fast during their time . Their dissappearance somewhen back in their period would always have other reasons but just not their fish catching abilities . Good luck on Ebay , ...hope you won't have to face too much competition in the auctions , ...cheers , Dieter

@ littleriver Thanks for links , Vic , ...but I'm not gonna pay as much , since I'm not a lure collector , ...also the vendors do not ship to Germany . Sometimes I buy lures off US Ebay , though , ...not all vendors don't ship to Germany , some do stil , .....guess this is because of troubles about local customs , ......many local buyers might not know , that a merchandise value above 23 Euros has to be declared at local customs and they'd charge import taxes and VAT above that sum , .....the packages will be kept at the customs offices , until buyers come over and collect them , naturally dropping their fee as well . Customs only keep such deliveries for seven or ten days , ......after time out , ......return to sender . Guess , many buyers missed collecting their stuff , and the word has spread amongst overseas vendors , .....as a result : No shipping to Germany ! I hate local customs ! @ Braided Line ...........I would not swim it as well , if I had an original one ! Thanks , Dieter

......I think , that the way , bobitas has described , comes close to a Finnish saddle lip . http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mjfHidpYHK6d1Kb69yyyDSw.jpg Imagine you'd cut out a kinda disc from the deepest part of the wall of the inner "knee" of such 90° bent piece of tubing as pictured , .......this is about how a Finnish saddle lip is shaped . Off course the pictured pipe is out of dimensional relation , .......either the tube needs to thicker in diameter , or the bent radius has to be sharper(smaller) , ..ist just an example to help to figure out . @ bobitas Thanks for advice , ..! Greetz , diemai

@ littleriver Thanks a lot for the links , Vic , the belly view picture there would be very helpful about getting the lure's shape right , ...also , as it seems , there are no traces ballast hole to be seen , ......if there should be one still , I strongly assume it to be in the front part of the belly , .......and there even is a hint on the best imparted swimming action , coined on Florida saltwater species , though , ..but it surely would attract European pike this way as well . Also your hint about the mahagony is great , I figure out that I should use somewhat heavier timber , ...got local beechwood and also teakwood . I had considered about attending to Joe Yates straightaway , but I have concerns , that an entusiastic lure collector might never be fond of any requests regarding the duplication of vintage lures , simply because there are quite a bit of fakes and cheating around , as I've read . You all know , that producing fakes to throw out for collectors to buy them never ever is my intention , ...my versions can be identified as replics even at first glance , ...making them just out of personal interest in the swimming action and catching abilities of yesteryear's lures . I had seen this lure in my collectors book already years and years ago , had already caught my eye back then , ...but there was only a sideview sketch printed there , not enough for accurate reproduction , ...now I came across more pictures in the web , ...out of being bored I'd just google any lure-related terms sometimes and that's how I found it back . Will keep you uptdated in here , probably I'll get started coming weekend . @ ArdentAngler Yes , Charles , it does a bit , ...though I think , that the angled mouth portion is not large enough to generate some kind of a regular wiggle at higher frequency , even not in conjunction with the relatively high towpoint . On straight retrieve it would rather come back in some kinda wave pattern , .....after having read the passage about lure action in Vic's link , I now believe , it would make up for a pretty good darting lure as well , ....gotta built one by all means to finally find out ! Thanks a lot , ...greetz , Dieter

Hi , Folks , Came across this vintage lure a few days ago in the web , .......I'm somewhat curious about how it would swim , therefore I indent to make a knock-off after linked pictures "Red Wing Banana Lure" some day . http://luresnreels.com/pfeffer.html I'm only wondering , whether it would have any ballast in it's belly , can't figure out by those pictures , ........maybe someone in here has an original lure at hand and would be able to tell me , ...maybe even how high it would float up at rest . Thanks , diemai

@ hazmail Thanks for this one as well , Pete , ...nice read , indeed ! greetz , Dieter

I'm kinda sad to hear about these issues on Rapala lures , as I've always found them to be reliable , working and catching very well throughout my previous angling years . Should they finally have fallen victim to commerce as well , in particular the more recent models ? Last year I've purchased some three or four MaxRaps , on one of these the weight shifting system does not function properly , takes a lot of shaking underneath the rodtip , before the BB's slide back into the tail for another cast , it's a nuisance to me . greetz , diemai

@ nedyarb Me just thinking , that if it was snagged up , the tow eye might also be out of tune ??? greetz , diemai

Glad if I was able to provide some input , Pete , ...cheers , Dieter

Luremaking suppliers do offer SSt wire in different versions and specs , ...but as as said before , checking out welding gear suppliers really is somewhat cheaper . Here in Germany there are two styles of SSt welding wire available , first the coiled one suited for gas-shielded welding , which come in diametres of 0,6 or 0,8 mm on spools weighting 0,5 or 1,0 kilograms . Since it is permanently spooled down to be fed through a kinda welding gun , it is very soft and bends easily , ...I would only recommend the 0,8mm for very tiny lures of max. 2" length . Second type of SSt welding wire comes in rods of one metre length , sold by weight or amount of pieces , ...this is used for welding with a flame and is available in diametres of 1,0 mm to 3,00 mm , naturally I only use the 1,0mm and sometimes the 1,5mm dia. for lures , ...3,0mm makes up for fine fish smoking hooks ! Naturally comes in different alloys , too ,...... possibly check out for ist features in terms of how hard it would be to bend . Since shops for welding gear are rare over here and often sell larger quantities of material only , I also check local Ebay , ...and often I'm successful there ! Good luck , Dieter

.........." from my cold dead hands ! " (Quote from Charlton Heston , .....out of context just a LITTLE bit ) Cheers , diemai

............when it would have come to a stage to outnumber the shoes and dresses of the missus ! ......................so I'm not worried at all ! tight lines , diemai

@ mark poulson Sorry about the loss of your dog , Mark...I figure out , that it hurts somehow , though I've never been into pets of any kind . So take good care of your lure , surely you might not want to ever lose it ! Greetz , Dieter

@ hazmail , Just had a look now after having registered , .......I'm quite astonished not to see any securing pins through the lips holding line ties , ...you fellas DownUnder must have access to extremely reliable glue , I reckon . Thanks again for posting , Pete , some very interesting views , ...cheers , Dieter

@ mark poulson Neat job on this one , Mark , ....cork and also artifical cork is not the very best material for subtle carving work , ..but the head cupping with it's sharp ridge turned out perfect , .....great idea about the heat shaping . Though I've quit on booze for a couple of years now , I've still got a small plastic bag full of bottle corks down the workshop , ...my workmates are doing the drinking part for me , ........some day more cork lure ideas would surely pop up , I reckon . greetz , Dieter

@ hazmail Thanks a lot for the link , Pete , ...guess , I've gotta sign in there for access , ...will do tonite , ..off to work again now ! Cheers, Dieter

@ flyonline Thanks so much for your further explanations on your local lures and Murray Cod , ...very , very interesting . Our local European pike also is an ambush hunter , so getting deeper into such lures might be and advantage for me , ...got my brains ringing ! But we have the problem over here , that boat angling often is restricted , and it is most likely impossible to cast into such places from the bank , unless on smaller rivers or cannal to the opposite side . Also not so many waters kept 100% natural over here , ..some folks even complain , if there are too any trees along the bank to disturb their casts , ......but I know , that such places are always good for a pike lurking ! In terms of our local pike I also agree with your statements about upscaled belly hooks , ....as a rule of thumb we say , that between two of it's points the treble has to be as large as the width of the lure at the belly portion . @ ArdentAngler I'd rather lose a lure now and then , than playing around with these smartlink rings , ..too bad about your loss , .....and the glee of the other fellows would really make me mad , I guess . greetz , Dieter

I'd use a "Dremel" course sanding drum , ........first I'd make an indented plane on top of the nose similar to the one of a "Creek Chub Pikie" ,...off course at the angle , cupping and highest tip of the required bevel . Usually the lipslot has already been cut at this stage , so I slide a strip of plane lip material into the slot and press a ruler or any other straight edge onto the plane to eyeball against the lip slot for parallelity , ........naturally one has to be careful not to remove too much material at one time . When the plane is at desired level , I'd use sandpaper to get it smooth . Now I'd draw a lengthwise centerline onto the plane and also draw curved pencil lines on either side of the lurebody , underneath either edge of the nose plane , ...commencing at the tip of the nose and leading to the back of the indented nose plane , transisting centered into either end of the plane , ....naturally both sides equally ! These lines mark the sideward edges left and right of the later bevelled nose plane . Now I carefully take off material with my sanding drum , holding it at the right angle , ...my sideward and center marker lines are my reference , ..takes a bit of practice to make each pass in a curved manner to achieve the hollow planes on either side of the bevel . Very important to change sides often , so that the bevel evolves equally on either side , ..needless to say , that you do not want to touch the marker lines , even leave a little flesh for the fine sanding afterwards . I have never tried to make that River Runt nose portion by carving , though with a real sharp and curved edge it would surely work as well , depending on the woodgrain(some timbers tend to tear up in their grain easily, the use wood putty would be in order in this case) . I just find it more convinient and faster to do with a "Dremel" . As far as for bigger sanders , ......I'm too scared about messing up with these , ....one false move of the wrist , ...or the blank held in a wrong position against the sander and you're through with your Runt , no putty's gonna fix it again , .......I much prefer to work down bit by bit for such delicate portions . Good luck , Dieter

@ flyonline Thanks a lot for chiming in , also thanks for that link , ......really interesting to me to hear , that longer casts with such big-bibbed lures are not a must in Australia , .......but a most welcome side effect to me , as I most likely cast from the banks . But also makes sense , that such big bibs would render these lures rather snag-resistant , .......I assume , that they possibly are often unweighted to keep them buoyant in terms of popping off obstacles pretty quick . And off course , ......the shorter the cast , the more accurate one can get ! Cheers , Dieter

Thanks a lot for linking , Dave , ......only had a brief look-over , though , .......guess , that my knowledge of the English language is not sufficient to fully comprehend , ....but what I find pretty interesting is that the sketches there are just looking like the style of 19th century technical drawings , ......these patent offices must be a very traditional circle ! greetz , Dieter

Do you know , where can I find it , .........just out of interest , ......don't think , that I could ever violate such patents , anyway , as I'm only copying styles , no certain luremodels accurately , ...also private use only , no sales ! cheers , diemai

Quite logical to me , Mark , definately experienced the same before , .........a rear weight has to be shifted around left and right by the force generated by the water pressure on the lip , thus the wobble becomes less pronounced compared to an unweighted lure or with a lure having belly ballast near the belly hook hanger . The rear ballast just sits on an imaginary longer lever arm with it's base at the lip , thus the weight is more difficult to move as if it was located somewhere nearer to the lip. BUT , ......this would count for straight-bodied minnow baits with a more or less smaller lip , ........these Aussie lures with their big lips and curved bodies have a lot more of a wobbling action already built in , .....first because of the big lip , ...and second , also because of their curved bodies . So they still generate enough force or power to move added rear ballast around at a reasonable frequency , .....certainly a rear weight would dampen their wobble as well , but this is not as significant and obvious , simply because their wobble is just vigorous right from the start . Vice versa , ......to retain the wobble on a straight minnow bait with tail ballast , you would have to make the lip's plane larger in order to generate more force to overcome the indolence of the rear ballast , ....BUT , ...a bigger lip also means more air resistance on the cast and might render the rear ballast less effective as a casting aid , .....sorry , but it seems like a dog biting it's own tail ! Just my , Mark , .........greetz , Dieter

...........Yes , the lure would swim more unstable and the frequency of the wiggle would decrease drastically , if you move the tow eye closer to the tip of the lip , .......just try taping a small kinda omega clip to the tip of the lip temporary and see what it does(within your reach , in case the tape bond fails) . These lures like "Poltergeist", "Deceptions", etc. were designed to run deeper than your requested 3-5 feet , ...and I don't really think , it would be possible to render their own special design to swim shallow still retaining their vigorous wobble , .......better try designing something entirely new , I'd say . If you want both , shallow running AND strong wobble causing a throbbing rodtip , I would advise you to stick to banana lures like these , .....they have a similar wobbling action to the deep diving Aussies , but swim a lot shallower with their integrated diving plane : http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2547-banana-baits/ @ Trout Tramp Thanks for chiming in , ...and welcome to TU , .......this would not be TU , if some of the members , including myself , would not have already carried out experiments with shifting casting weights , ..there are threads about it somewhere in here . But in my opinion such won't be neccessary on Australian style deep divers , simply because the bib lip provides weight to the front causing the lure to swim head down at rest , .....counterbalanced with ballast in the rear the lure swims level at rest with the secondary effect of an enhanced casting performance , as the rear weight pulls the lure to fly tail first and the bib acting as an airfoil or guiding rudder . Off course the material would have to be sufficiently buoyant to carry lip , ballast and hardware , ....in my opinion just a very ingenious lure design from DownUnder . Such shifting weights providing an enhanced casting performance would rather be more practical to lures with a slender and elongated straight body . Cheers , diemai

@ mark poulson Thanks , Mark @ ArdentAngler Hhmm , .......the big lips and shallow diving does not go together , ....but , ..there is a little chance , .....make the bodies as curved as possible and as voluminous as possible to retain as much buoancy as possible , of course out of a very buoyant material , too , ...use lexan , not aluminium for the lip . Also do not taper the front and rear end too much to keep body voluminous , thus buoyant , .......the lip can be plane , pointing forward and also a bit larger(not a real big deep diving lip , though) , with the line tie on the lip . The curved lurebody would still wiggle like hell , and because of the the high buoancy such lure won't dig too deep , ...also strongly curved lurebodies with a strong wobble do not dive that deep by nature , unless equipped with a supersized lip . I have something like this in mind : http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/9719-aussie-style-and-bug/ (top lure but with a bit smaller lexan lip) ......or like the bottom one in here , off course also with a smaller lexan lip and probably a bit wider in cross section : http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/9722-striped-aussies/ The only way to go shallow with this kind of lures in my opinion , .....or try making banana lures with integrated diving planes , ..these also do wiggle strongly , but don't dive as deep by nature . ...and yes , I have come across these LegoHeads before on Youtube , ..another significant design from Down Under ! Cheers , Dieter