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lol. i did'nt comment to get insulted... the product states it has propionate. you say it has none. your the screwed up one. and yes. the car paint is epoxy. but the world can't just call everything epoxy. so it's assigned by general rule to only certain ones to avoid confusion. two parts or more reacting by catalyst or chemical infusion to form another different form is epoxy. most just think it needs to be inorganic plastics to be considered a candidate but that's wrong. and i don't need to look at eastman. most everything i know about CAP, CAB and esters including plasticiser ESTERS is from contacts there and their distributors. if you have a license for business, website and tax numbers and cash you'd be surprised what they can/will tell you. my next move is going to be making my own epoxy coating for lures, to save money. but thats a ways away. one last note. this site is full of misinformation and even dangerous things too. i've never had any question i asked answered correct yet. i'm just going to log out and return next year i think. good luck:popcorn:

if you've been formulating for that long you must know the definition of epoxy. all EPOXY means is more than one part, but mostly used to describe two. an ESTER not a solvent. it is an ESTER. which means it itself IS solvent in form, or, meaning a liquid chemical form. which are used as additives to give other chemicals different properties. solvent means an additive that creates liquid form or thins an existing form but is not normally used to describe a chemical meant as an additive, it can, but it's not. water based paint has solvent. water being the solvent. powder can be purchased. but not SOLD without proper license. so getting small quantities is near impossible. i never said it can't be bought. google the esters' names. propionate in any form is still propionate as is butyrate. had to edit. PROPIONATE is in it. i never said CAP was. but acetate may be i don't remember. and cellulose maybe too. which even if added days apart would still be CAP. just smokescreen man, that's all it is. peace.

CAB is cellulose acetate butyrate and CAP is cellulose acetate propionate both come pure in solid powder form and are additives used for numerous projects from toys, screwdriver handles and is even a carrier for drugs. the solvent you speak of was not taken from the tree as a solvent they were made into the ester. they are propionate and butyrate in any case. basicly, and i stress basicly, it's the same as dissolving in acetone. ester is easier to mix because it's already liquid form and theres not a long wait before it can be mixed thouroughly in CPES' case. in others for thermo-forming. and so on. and if you spend the money anything can be had, but without the proper license the powder can't be resold by federal law. it needs to be pellet form to unlicensed buyers. and finding the right stuff is expensive. needs the right hardness. or add plasticiser at an order of 500 bucks a pop.

i only did it to save money!!!!! to get the ingredients i paid over $1200.00 (most has to be bought in bulk) but in the end game i'll save around $8000.00 or so when all's said and done. it was worth the time and research to me. CPES is prop. i'm possitive it works. thanks SNAX.

the CPES is is a mixture of propionate and butyrate along with a host of common and exotic chemicals, esters and solvents. most are basicly just a smoke screen most companies use to make it look difficult to the common man as most of the ingredients do the same as another and another does the same as another so on so forth. add a drop and it's another ingredient for the MSDS. the ingredients made from wood mentioned on their site is the propionate and the butyrate which are made from wood. i make my own similar product for my own uses except i use a different (better IMO) plasticiser than them. and of course not nearly as in depth of a receipe... i use a harder (NOT hard) version for sealing and a somewhat softer one for coating for paint. but to each his own i guess.

to make a long story short, and avoid getting too technical... durring baking, molecule linking is allowed to occur. when heated and dipped the object cools at a rate(too fast)for linking to occur effectively. when baked a second time these links are opened again, but not to original expansion. the second/tenth color if put on after first bake fuses to the tips of the ''fingers'' of the pre-existing color. not a true cross link but for our application very effective. it still won't chip off the base color and that's the important part. IMO. very nice work CAD! that's better/more than i do. my system has completely changed over the last couple years. i mentioned my melding handicap. well i decided to just cheat. i tie my spinnerbaits with hair or synthetics and coat the head and thread with epoxy. so i do my base coat in powder, bake, cool, scuff, put accents in solvent paint. then add eyes, tie on material and coat. it's nice because when i coat my wood lures theres left overs of epoxy that get wasted. this way theres no waste. that was part of the reason i even started offering spinnerbaits and jigs. this is probably making the purist's cringe but it works for me and they look nice. when i get a extra minute or two i'll figure out this whole pic thing here and post up.

my intent is not to argue either. debate maybe:nono:. i've done the white base in the past when i started out and just did it again to confirm and i really can't tell the difference with my eyes. i dipped an egg sinker half in the bed with white and cooled it. reheated and dipped it fully in fl. yellow. drew a line in the middle with a black paint marker and i see no difference. as far as spraying goes i never put a base on for that so i can't say. next time i need to spray i'll try it. but spraying sounds more logical to me because theres more control of the thickness. but it's still a fully solid plastic with heavy pigment, i just don't see how, but we'll see.... and baking before other colors ''helps'' keep the colors from melding, at least for me. when i did try i always got too much flow. but to each their own. maybe i'm just going to fast:yay:

i'm confused and have to disagree. i've never put white base coats on before fluorescents. they come out bright as can be. glow under a black light. the paint is solid and thick how would the base show through? base coats are needed when spraying solvent paints and then if it goes on too thick the color is darker because the base is covered to much. i'd ask cs coatings if i was anyone needing this info. also the powder paint needs to be baked after the first color and then after the other colors are applied.

the dowel is best IMO. the trick with this method to keep the bb's out of the epoxy is to let your epoxy set up thick enough not to run before you apply it. and turn the bait upside down. bondo is good but if you use that i recommend a filler with fiberglass. like dura-glass or the like. or just chop up some fiber glass sheet, not mesh, and add it to regular bondo for reinforcment. or hot glue works too. guess it's a matter of spending time to find your best one. good luck.

... that's a boat load of fish for sure.

as a genareal rule a manufacturer will offer a lone or multiple parties 3% of the net profit in royalties, and in most cases a lump sum of projected sales to cover the first year before marketing starts. that's 3% without doing anything after the contract is signed. and zero monatary investment from person/them. more is normally given if the company wants consultation for a set time on difficult products. if the product is ever resold to another party most contracts have a clause where a percentage of the sale price is given to the person/people. in some cases the royalties can even carry over after the transfer, rare because it limits the sale attraction, but on very good products it's almost a given. your case is more unique. is he going to continue with you? or be gone and do nothing? is the money forever or for a certain number of years? is he your brother in-law? wifes brother8O...? how much intell did he do? if your good friends i'd say go for one year without any money exchange and after that you will have a better idea of what your profit and expense will be. but i'd come up with what percent he is deserving of first. how much exactly he is responsible for in creating it is the number he is deserveing of.

your local hobby shop should have plenty of balsa. planes, boats, cars... you know the drill. i bet you could go to a hobbiests' forum and really pick up some great info on it. at least where to get some. or you can try this site.... Hungates: Balsa Wood ... they have a nice assortment of semi-bulk packages. lot's of other goodies too, like paint, guns, brushes, etc. maybe e-mail them and see if they know what their wood is. since you didn't say where you got your wood,lol, this might be the same place... or try here... Balsa Scraps -- Specialized Balsa Wood

for plastic bobp hit it. a sand blaster if you want to remove the paint. otherwise your just going to have to deal with doing it slow. with acetone the trick is to not wipe it too long and keep the rag from getting too wet with acetone. back and forth a couple quick times with mild pressure. another spot the same. lat sit a couple minutes. do it like that in a small area, the length of the lure, at a time untill the baits done. don't do it all at once because it's too hard to control the solvent. if your set up right you can hang them up and pull one end with a wire and do more. but by hand just a strip at a time. ( with pauses hanging or in hand ) try MEK too. not as strong so it's a little easier on plastic. also you can use some water on the rag where you have the solvent to cut down on it's power too.

theres a-lot of reasons a coating will ''fish-eye'' or leave dry spots. the biggest mistake most lure builders make is applying it too soon after painting, because they're excited and want to get it done NOW.. an uncured paint is still leaching solvent and when a coating that cures as slow as epoxy is applied the solvent escapeing is a gas. gas rises and as it does it ''pushes'' the coating apart and keeps it from re-joining as it keeps rising. as a general rule i never coat a lure i can smell the paint on.... within reason of course. even a hint of solvent scent and i wait. and of course theres a million or so contaminents that will do it too. water based paints? don't know really, i didn't get into using it that long.

i'd say just spend the 20 bucks if all you want is a lure turner. if your looking for a learning experience, then by all means, proceed.... you'll be in it at least 20 bucks labor not to mention anything you need. even if you have it, it costed something at some time or other. good luck.

i didn't get mine at rockler but this is the center finder tool i'm talking about.... Details for Stock Center Finder - Rockler Woodworking Tools really... it takes only five seconds and you are dead center on basicly anything but triangles. it doesn't say it but on my info sheet when i bought it i could have sworn it said oval's too. need never arose yet so i never did it. one of the handiest tools i own for turning.

i suggest starting out keep it simple. simple is fast drying. buy a rottiserie and make a simple turning device. theres plenty of designs here. i still just use the simple bar on 2x4 frames with 6 turners. a few more on standby just in case. and another dozen in the box for replacements. anyway... then graduate to e-tex. if they are for you e-tex will be cool. when you want to sell? by then you'll know what you want. if you want alot of devcon buy it by the gallon (or less/more) at the devcon website or a distributor they recommend. some use acetone to thin d2 (blushes i'm sure) with two drops to a blob. i never went with devcon much ( for lure coating) but i've used 2 drops of 99% isopropyl and one drop of ammonia per 4 drams ... drams not grams...to extend cure time, create better flow and uniformity and make it less brittle. hope this helps.

welllll, i guess i'll have to take the plunge then and get them done myself. if anyone searched i thank you.

i could tell you whats going to happen with the cork but that might be too much help?? and balsa is a pain? not if it's done right. oops. too much help. sorry.

many lure manufacturers do. also for all the other materials too. like bucktail and flashabou and that.

i bought a plastic tool called... believe it or not... a center finder. it's a clear piece of tinted yellow acrylic sheet about 6'' by 7''. i can center round, oval, square, rectangle and hex with it. cost me 3.99 at the hardware store. takes about 5 seconds and the center is marked. google it:popcorn: as far as horizontal? thanks pete, awsome tip. eyes, i just drill a tiny hole through the blank and turn it after.

i learned the plug/dowel trick from Bobbie Vander Velden:worship:, the maker inventer of the bobbie baits. he passed away earlier this year:halo: and though i didn't hang out with him outside shows and meetings, still the things i learned from him at muskie shows were priceless. of course he wasn't giving everything away, but he did ''hint'' a-lot.... a-lot. like ''hinting'' about where to put weight on a globe. he ''hinted'' i should rip one of his baits apart and look, lol. i had a retired one so i did. learned a-lot from just that. like i said... priceless. really like the fact he didn't care about how his baits looked as long as they worked. great guy. i'll miss him.

yeah, most any lure builder needs at least a cheap scale. 30 bucks will get you by for most things for lure related stuff. as long as it has gram capacity. i don't buy propianate in pellet form so there was no way i could measure it. i got some awhile ago and wasn't happy with it. so i figured i'd make my own. almost got it the way i want it now but it's looking like i might just go to a different product that is better suited to our (lure makers') needs. propionate has been used on lures since at least the 40's, maybe longer (it was discovered in 1929), and there's been a whole lot of discoveries and improvements since then. basicly it's a case of word of mouth in the lure industry, and ''billy's tackle'' doing it because ''joey's tackle did it''. imagination got replaced by expediency so to speak. i'm working on it as you read this to bring a better suited product to the ''little guys'' like most of us are. i'll be puting out a propionate for the die hard old school builders and the other for the new age builder. but this is getting long so... off to the fun stuff. ...BTW, i was trying to help.