Downriver Tackle

Sorry about that . somehow it took me to the 2nd page and I thought that was the latest post. Oops.

You can't just make up your own mix ratios. You have to follow the manufacturers recommendation. If they say 1:1 and you go 2:1, 50% of one component is unreacted.The lure will be tacky, and if not, it will yellow like crazy.

Unfortunately, that's probably a hurdle conventional epoxy will never overcome, unless you apply it in multiple layers, cut back in a fast solvent. There's no practical way to get a 1 or 2 coat epoxy to flow and level, release air bubbles, and also not need to be turned.

What brand of epoxy, and are you SURE that you are getting the proper mix ratio and mixing?

1. Will work fine. Just don't blast it @ 120psi 2. Most of what I do is repainted customs. I just scuff them with 220 grit, paying special attention to areas around bills and loops, and the very tail. 3. Yep, they will. Besides fine work, I still use cheap ole Pasche VL kits($80 for the gun, bottles, 3 tips & needles, and a good airline) for priming, base colors, and masked work. 4. Createx makes a descent starter kit. Though I prefer their AutoAir series with their basecoat primers, the regular Createx works fine. Colors beyond that depends on what you want to paint. Realistic or stock repros. Lots of flourescent and pearl colors if you want to do something like stock repros, or earthen/natural colors if you want to do realistics. 5. For base colors, at least. Get one of those storage bins with a snap on lid. Cut a hole in the center and put the outlet of a 1200-1500W hair drier in there. Drill holes on each end and run dowell through to hang lures. $25 set-up. If you're using a clear system that needs rotating while curing, that's a whole different story. 6. All depends. I shoot most colors at 30-40psi. Some at 70. Depends on the color, type of paint, and level of detail.

I'm not a big fan of powder paint for jigs. Lighter ones, yes, but not for anything 5/8 and over. It's great for lighter jigs. Fast n Easy. I made jigs for years here on the Detroit River where we bounce 3/4-1oz jigs off rocks all spring while jigging for walleye and there isn't one single powder paint job that I've seen hold up for more than 10 minutes. And I've seen allot of different jigs around here. It's a pain, but the best combo I found was white or black vinyl as a primer base, vinyl colors, then epoxy clear coated. It's a crappy picture, but try to get powder to withstand this hammer shot. The vinyl/epoxy system does. http://www.downrivertackle.com/smash.jpg

Devcon 2-ton epoxy glue.

You're right about edges and epoxy. I found that it's in technique to cure that. You probably can't do it with D2T because it cures too quickly. What I do when I'm painting Thin Fins or poppers, is to paint the entire lure(s), really taking time to wet out the edges, then wait until the epoxy is set up and almost too thick to brush and hit the edges again with a heavier than normal coat. It works about 90% of the time. If I don't want to cover over 3D fins and such, I do the opposite. I hit those areas first when the eopxy is thin. Do all those areas on the lure(s), then come back and hit the rest of the body when the epoxy is a little thicker and take care not to go over that area again.

Actually, I went the epoxy route for myself because a big part of my business is painting Rapala Originals for handliners here on the Detroit River. A handliner digging a balsa original into the rocks, then ripping it out with 50# wire was a huge hurdle to overcome with durability. Along with the 10# walleye and 40-50" ski's . I had a muskie bite a #9 Shad Rap right in half last fall and the clear didn't tear. It broke clean with the wood. Generally, on balsa, it can take complete tooth penetration and only leave a pinhole in the coating. The hard cranks and spoons fell right in place. It's a good system for almost any type of lure. All this depends on what you use under it also for primer and color. I use all Createx AutoAir paints, including base coat sealer. All heat cured. All that being said, I'm taking the same part A base I formulated and using a curing agent that is non-yellowing. I was using a standard curing agent for years with very little yellowing, but this is supposedly UV resistant comparable to high end urethanes. There's still some work to be done as far as pricing packaging and getting some feedback on the lures I have out for prototypes, but I expect no issues on the durability. I haven't seen any on the lures I've used. Price will definitely be cheaper than the UV Urethane and not too expensive at all. I will still be a few months if it happens, if not mid-next year. I want to make sure nearly all of the bugs are worked out. I will sell no clear before it's time. Plus, I want to get it out on my lures first. LOL To answer other questions: It will flow and level like glass. Full gloss Not water white/clear, but very close Cure times should be: 10 minute dwell-time before applying, 20-30 minute working time, 2-3 hours of turning, dry to touch in 12 hours. Full cure in 24 hours. I generally let them cure overnight, then throw them in a drying cabinet @ 120F for 15 minutes, then they're ready to ship. You are able to pull them off the turner after about 2.5 hours and hang them to finish air curing. The UV curable would definitely be further down the road. That's still just a concept.

Shouldn't be much of a problem. The UV rays needed to cure are a pretty narrow band. Even if it did affect it, the initiator that makes it cure could probably be boosted. Not something a consumer could do. It would have to be done in the formulation.

Never tried it, but have heard of it. The only thing I really know is that it's an additional clear coating on top of a finished surface. For some reason, it's not used for the sole clear coating. I have no idea why, and haven't looked into it enough to understand why it couldn't, if so. VERY interesting though.

For extreme applications like that, you might have to use two coats, definitely no more. I've been trolling for Muskie on the Detroit River with custom Reef Runners for the last 2 months with one coat of clear epoxy, and there's just a few teeth scuffs. Nothing more. and that's battling 40"ers. If you have a lure shape where the hook point is going to ride across the paint, it's hard to not get any marking, but this will definitely not wear through. Hot n Tots are one of the worst for hook wear and I've never had one do more than just scuff the clear.

I've been formulating my own clear coatings for lures since 2004 and have learned quite a bit. Since I've joined this site, I learned allot about the possible market. I'm thinking of expanding from just custom painting to selling clear coatings for lures. I need your help as to which way to go with the technology. Which would you prefer? I'm guessing #2. Remember that quality generally isn't the simplest solution. #1. A UV-curable urethane that is very durable, non-yellowing, and cures in seconds under the UV light. BUT, it requires you to buy a UV lamp that can cost $100+. And there are the health concerns. You can crank out large volumes though. #2 A REAL virtually NON-yellowing epoxy that is just as durable as anything you've tried, one coat application, 100% solids/solvent-free, and a slow, easy to use cure. Only issue with that is that the mix ratio is around 10:4, so the ease of 1:1 mixing is out the door. Opinions appreciated. Of course, if I do launch the project, I'll need some ginuea pigs to work out the bugs

I'm pretty sure LuckyCraft uses a UV curable urethane. I've been pondering formulating one and marketing it to my fellow custom painters. The technology is real slick. Almost zero yellowing, durable as hell, and as you noted, UV curables are quick to coat and cure. Great for high volume! Were you able to get enough clear on the baits in a single coat, or did it take multiple coats with the UV epoxy?

May be worth a few prototype runs at least.

Alright, have a little feedback. I searched through a bunch of technical sources and it seems UV curable epoxies are not for paint/coating applications. Most often they are used in inkjet printer inks. That was an interesting read. I never knew what that blue light was on my HP printer head. Apparently, that's a UV light and cures the ink instantly after it's applied. The only other application I could find for it was fiber optic threads. According to the data, it's terrible with UV resistance and will yellow. Since it's not for coating applications, there was no data on properties like impact or abrasion resistance, etc. One thing I did find was a ton of warnings about the lights for UV curing. They're of a specific wavelength that can cause skin cancer, and all warn against skin exposure to the light and recommend eye and skin protection if you work with them.

EXACTLY!!!

The clear you are using doesn't have good water resistance. Try a different one.

I've researched UV curable epoxies before for a project at work, but that was years ago. All I really remember is that they weren't for typical paint applications. I'll check tonight or tomorrow in a tech source and get back. Maybe they've changed since then.

There was a guy around here about 10 years back that was painting cars in his garage on the side and using box fans to vent it. Him and the garage went KABOOM, setting his house on fire and him quite a way though te air. Insurance denied the claim amd I think it's still a vacant lot.

Last word. Now I feel better. LOL

Geez, a bit testy eh? I said WE skimped, not you! I watched the video. I think I've got the physics covered. I totally agree with the concentration of fumes in his explanation, but there's also other factors that can play a role in paint booth fires. Trust me, I've seen dozens of our customers, even some with the safest set-ups, have fires. If you're spraying an aluminum flake paint with alot of acetone, that's the recipe for a fire, even possibly with the set-up in the video. It's just physics. That's an excellent set-up, but I'd probably get a belt driven blower with the motor mounted on the outside. That's the way our explosion-proof booth works. Most fires or explosions that occur because of non-explosion-proof switches or motors happen when someone turns the a booth on, shop light on, or whatever. Not when the air is flowing, though it does occasionally happen then too. It's very possible to get a build-up of fumes in the booth when it's sitting idle after alot of painting and you could easily surpass the concentration needed for ignition. I'm not trying to shoot anyone's idea down, just trying to make a safety point. You can make something as safe as possible, but nature will always build a better idiot who won't maintain the equipment or whatever. I'd hate to see someone burn their house down because they had no idea a fire was possible, even remotely. If they read this and know it is possible, then the ball's in their court.

Yeah, we skimped by with non-explosion-proof exhaust fans at a paint factory I worked at. Was fine till just after I left the company. Two weeks later I got to watch the plant burn down on the local news because of those exhaust fans. Remember that a boo-boo like that will probably viod your insurance coverage. Bad part is that an explosion-proof motor is probably around $500-1000 Box fans usually run in the range of 2000-3000 cfm on high. I'm pulling 6400 cfm with the two I have.

Yeah, I forgot about the solvent factor. I spray water-based. I wouldn't recommend spraying solvent through any electrical motor unless it's explosion proof.

Don't know about that one, but here's the cheapest and best-performing tabletop spraybooth you can get. I picked up two $12 20" window box fans from the store and stacks of 20x20 furnace filters from my local ACO Hardware for 99 cents each. I put the fans on my bench in a v-shape and put three filters on the intake side of each fan and one on the back side to act as filters. I change the front filter every 50 or so lures, then replace them all about every 500. Works amazingly well and cheap to set up and maintain!