gliders

Thanks reply travis, the reason for the olive theory was mainly because these patterns only work very well for me in peat stained water, and a few others that work in clear water ,only work in low light. On the very peat stained waters the blue starts to appear to take on shades of olive, i take it its because the stained water is filtering out certain parts of the spectrum, thus making it appear olive which is a key colour of much of the natural food in these waters. However what bothers me is why it should be so much more effective than olive patterns on those waters, and why those same patterns can be useless on waters which appear the same! Now about the low light patterns,on the waters i fish them they are hopeless until the light starts to go,then bingo!. Again, under certain sun setting or low light conditions ,the blue seems to appear less blue ,erring towards greenish. The best i can come up with is ,there must be something to do with red light which changes the colour blue as fish see them. A friend who fishes with me asked me to make him some blue backed trolling lures to try on a couple waters we fish for pike,which are very peat stained and similar to the trout waters where the blue tinged fly patterns work. I made them and expressed my severe doubt (ridicule ) . But unfortunately they worked very well ! Hope this not too long winded but i like logic in my fishing and this blue conundrum has always bothered me.

I should add that the thing that bothers me, is that on the patterns and waters i fish them,these patterns can be exceptional at times,far more so than actual olive shades. It seems to trigger something more than olives or greens should....any theories or experiences?

Think your spot on there mark,don't know how you could make a fish talk though.......maybe show it a picture of a grill ?

Thinking about colours in another thread got me thinking about the colour blue on lures again . Now I'm not talking about blue on an out and out imitative pattern imitating a fish or insect or whateve , that has blue on it, rather it's effectiveness on lures in waters where nothing is blue. On some of the waters i fish ,there are a couple of patterns of flies with blue in them that are consistently very effective on certain waters ,but completely useless and even repellent on others. Also on waters where it is effective ,it has to be in small amounts, an all blue lure being useless. I have found that in similar waters that i fish for pike with hardbaits that a lure with a blue back can be good at times. This has always bothered me!, i have come to the conclusion due to the fact that its always tannin or algae stained waters with dark bottoms or low light conditions ,that the fish see it as some shade of olive. It would be interesting to know if you guy's in u.s ,canada,and other parts of the world have any experiences with different species /waters regarding the colour blue.

Lots of people have all sorts of theories regarding lure/attractor colours,usual advice is try all sorts to see what works on day. Fish dont suddenly wake up one morning and decide we are only eating such and such a colour for today. There is always a reason why one colour or pattern is working,i am talking about attractor /reaction lures only and not imitative patterns here. Because i have a competition fishing background it is imperative to be able to deduce colour/ pattern very quickly. If it takes an hour then you have lost. Becuase of this I spent a huge ammount of time testing one colour against another in different conditions ,light,water colour ,time of year,temperature etc.to acieve a logical understanding of what colours will be best under various conditions.It amazes me more anglers don't do simple logical testing of one colour over another and rely more on the try everything and see tactic. Again if you had to do that in a comp then unless you get lucky you have lost. A simple test for those who think colour is not too important,paint say 10 lures in different colours e.g all blue,all yellow,all orange etc.and test on well stocked water one against the other and see what happens.

Had this discussion with with reasonably good competition fly fisherman during a comp when fish were not feeding so using attractor patterns,invited him to attach 3 blue lures to prove it matters not, thrashed him into changing his mind. Obviously depth,action,size,presentation of prime importance but colour can and often does make a huge difference. If you doubt this then fish against some top competition anglers .

Centigrade, cheap leather punch ,put the first 1/4 inch of desired size in vice and squeeze gently to oval,easy and works well. Keep us updated and i will also if i take it further. I think the pattern it is used on will determine overall effect. I dont use clear blanks so am thinking for me it may be nice over silver foil. Cheers.

Would there be any benefit using kbs or such like as final coats over e-tex on wood lures in terms of durability/hook rash damage ?

Just messing dale !

Surely a few warning points would suffice for dale.. Regarding those who just like to paint lures,there's nothing wrong with that..........Personally I would have them stoned though.....ha

You could also start with small squares and punch off corners with leather punch to achieve fan shapes...........or do what mark suggested !

I think the ovals may look better depending on pattern, also if I'm going to try on a lure i will maybe go for a more pearlescent than holographic foil.

Centigrade,came up with another option as pictured,sketch shows process enlarged. Only had small diameter brass tube handy but can be any size,stuck in drill to sharpen. You could put handle on ,but without you can look down tube for alignment. Used adhesive backed foil i had handy and scored to backing with scalpel then aligned cutter and tapped with mallet=4 perfect wee fan shape scales! Sounds fiddly but actually easy,hope helps.

Centigrade, here are oval holo scales punched from nail foil 8 or 16 at a time by folding over then placing between 2 bits of paper and using punch in picture. I squeezed desired size cutter in vise easily to oval.hope helps.

Have looked at those also,think they could work. I was hoping for something i could peel and stick but might try applying very thin punched nail foil scales onto 1st clear coat over paint then remaining clear coats over all.

Hang off till weekend centigrade, think i may have cracked it using round punch on checker cut foil to produce 4 fan shape scales with each punch. Busy with some other lures at minute but will try and perfect it at weekend.

Centigrade, i am interested in doing this also as i was going to do it at one point and never got round to it,need to decide what shape will look best before i start altering stuff. Lures i have personally used with them are lucky craft sammy and savagegear 4play 3d minnow pattern. Google the 3d minnow and see what you think.

Centigrade, the wing cutters dont have sizes on them,however they come usually in set of 4 different sizes ,look for smaller sizes.Am sure they are quite cheap.if i can find other foil i will post some pic's.

Thats fly tying wing cutters in photo, i was meaning plier action leather hole type punch with wheel of cutters of different sizes. You could sqeeze one of the round cutters to oval shape. Thats just a bit of heat transfer foil i had lying about, if i can find a bit of adhesive backed foil i will try wing cutter on that as i think it would be much more practical. I do like the effect of some out of place looking scales as seen on wounded prey fish often, think this can be a trigger at times.

I wonder if scale pattern in nathans link are individually removable scales? On some lures from savage gear the scales are ovals and could be made by crushing leather punch circle into oval. Also thought of this,which are fly wing cutters i dug out- several size's and blade could be manipulated to alter shape if need be.

Think l.p.online may have holo scale pattern on transparent backing,if so you could maybe cut out with scalpel.

Centigrade, you could try nail foil by using scale stencil for adhesive to achieve scale shape then applying nail foil,I wasn't overly happy with result though. Another option is using a hole punch and having round scales,you could trim to shape if time not an issue. If you use adhesive backed foil you could work out a way using a scalpel and straight edge to trim two sides of circles in rows to make more scale shaped before punching out and speed up the process if that makes sense, or just use round!