SW Lures

This has me thinking of why I have terminology problems here. I think of wiggle as a tight movement of a stick bait from nose to tail looking from a bottom or top view. Waggle is a more open movement and some times slower. X'ing is a movement of the shoulders of the bait. Its as if your are looking down the bait from its nose to tail and the shoulders/belly rocks back and forth. The Z line is the third dimension (width). This is the point of less movement during a wiggle/waggle, or pivot point. Tow eye can be considered the Z line, it all depends. Really the widest point of the bait. However we are chatting about movements. I really don't care if you won't to call it a tomato or a toomato (joke). I would just like to called these terminology the way y'all call them so I can communicate properly. Please enlighten me in clear a straight forward description. Crap didn't put my name to this, had to come back. Dale

I don't have a traditional turner. I don't like dust getting to my baits, well the best I can. My turner is in a cabinet that is sealed. LOL I have a fan and filter made into it. I even have a light in it for heating and curing the paints and clear coatings. I really don't know if it will help or hurt. Some coatings are chemical reaction that hardens. Read about it first. But if you do, watch out for combustion and fire. A light bulb does wonders in some conditions. Example, in colder weather as you are talking about. I let the coating level out then I turn on the light for about 30 mins. Take a peak just before I cut the light off. I built this out of things I had laying around. I built it when I first start painting, really I over did it. But it does well. I don't use the light much anymore now. Be very careful with curing to fast. Dale

To just add to Bob's statement, I have not found anything by mathematics. It's looking at the wood and wondering if my idea will work. From my lil old walnut I put it to hands and eye to create a design. Then its test, testing and testing more. Once I have a standard/prototype I try to produce it over and over again. So far so good, but ballast changes at times. That's why I stop shy of the so call ballast amount and test. Then I add or not what looks right by looking at the bait in a tank. Once in awhile I miss, so it's no perfect way for me. A bait that I wanted to float just became a sinker. As Bob explained to me in another thread changing the lip from one thickness can change the weight, it made logical since so I have to test again. However understanding and being able to picture how water moves around a bait does help me (Vodkaman). A tank with food coloring can tell you a lot. It does take a lot of effort with trial and error for me. I do like everyone giving their two cent as Ben says. People's opinion makes a thread interesting to me. It tis a lot of work/fun, whew. I just wish that I had more time to work on the baits. I'm still going to keep this thread in mind, who knows I may see something that adds up. Take care, Dale

I'm with Bob, the majority of my baits have flat sides at different degrees. I designed a bait with a higher profile that rolled it's shoulders back and forth with some slow waggle. I wanted more waggle so I lowered the profile height and the waggle was more pronounced. The shoulder roll was less. Again, this is a bait with flat sides. A small amount compared to body size. I referrered to my ratio theory in a recent post about lip design. Even with this knowledge I'm not sure. I will not say it's a certain cause unless I know for sure. Y'all ones that has been doing this for years can figure it out but I gave you some "food for thought". Will be reading! This could give me something that I'm looking for. Have a great day, Dale p.s., one other thing the bait is made from poplar.

I'm starting to understand/maybe that there is a width, length and height ratio that allows this. I saw it in the larger baits and realized I have seen it in the much smaller baits. The lip, ballast, shape also play a part in this I believe. I have minnow shape that does this, it's a 1/2" thick X 5/8" height X 2 1/2" long. It real goes crazy, but slows down in its action if it's cranked faster/ripped. This could be a interesting thread, I will be following for sure. I just notice this so I truly don't understand this totally. Dale

I have found that for most baits using round rings help action or a rounded snap swivel. It allows the bait to move freely. However there are some baits that just gives a different action (maybe better) with a straight tie to the tow eye. Then there are some that just don't do well at all. Interesting discussion and fishing technique, Dale

The rubber feel you described is what I had but after fishing with it like Mark has stated. Some clear coates takes quite some time to cure. There has been some lengthy discussions about clear Coates taking weeks to cure. Another thing that I just thought of, you fish saltwater. I will assume by some post you have done. I'm sure that saltwater will put some pressure on your clear coat. The tuffest coat is Devon 2 Ton. It's also the heaviest. My opinion, take your best shot at what you can get. If it doesn't work then you will try another. Keep the amount to a minimum. Good luck, Dale

It is a WARNING!......... DON'T fish with Mark, go with Barry. LOL, Dale

I understand what you are saying Bob. The 1/8" lips really took a beating in that condition and came out fine. I tapered the leading edge of the lip to give it a better ability to cut through the water and diving. However I now see that it's possible to thin them down and create a different action to a bait. I have 18 patterns now, I think the thinner lip would add a different performance to the same pattern. I planned in the beginning to change them up in different ways. This will be one of those ways. I will have time to work on these in the winter. @ Ben, I'll give it try. This has been a great help in understanding another side of making wooden baits. Thank you, Dale

I was going to put this in the “how to" forum area but alas I can’t find it now? I was discussing with several members about how holding stencils is hard for me to do now until I complete the painting. I also paint in some schemes in “intaglio” technique. This is the opposite of relief, which many of you do in plastic baits and in wooden ones also. Relief is where you cut a pattern out of the stencil area and paint inside of it. Using a comb painting the stripes on is relief also, basically. For you artist out there correct me if I’m wrong. So with that I came out with these gizmo's (clamps) to help me. They work and I hope they may help some of you. That is a stencil of an eagles head. I left the out line on so it could be seen. I will paint on the out side with one color then I will take the opposite stencil and paint the inside with another color. This is a miniature clamp that I use for relief stencils. The clamps work like scissors. These are made from large paper clips, with a plastic coating (tube) over the ends. This clamp can’t be used on the eagles head stencil because it would cover the painting area. This one I use now for the stencils that are like the eagles head, where I’m painting to the outside of the stencil. Can you see the SS split ring? Thats to hold the wire together. The split ring just moves up and down freely, you don’t know its there. It is made from welding electrode (SS TIG Rod), it has rubber hose over the ends. This clamp is so strong that it’s holding up this pine lure while in a vise. Even on one of the sides you can see the slick stencil film of the eagles head between the clamp and the bait. And, yes it does not hurt water base paints. I heated the ends to make a flat area on it. Well, Nathan if you can move this I would appreciate it. I hope this helps, I know it helps me. Cheers, Dale

Noted Bob and Mark, I took a manufactures lip today made out of CB, and I had to cut it shorter. This stuff is a dream to work with. I scored it and it broke out clean enough to just touch it up with a file. Then I put two notches and two small holes in it to secure it when I'm finished painting. I have some sheets of CB now. I just enjoyed working with it. The only thing I may have lost in CB, I put paper (patterns) with shapes that I want to cut out on the jig saw. On the patterns I have a witness mark for the center line. I have been using children's stick glue and stick the pattern to the cover film of the lexan. This still may can be used on CB. I'll find out, it's just a good way to keep the lip aligned with the center line (X Line) of the bait. I'm almost out of lexan, so I need to find me some 1/16". I agree Bod, wear and tear is normal for anything we have, tools, nature, whatever. So now I'm getting schooled in detailing each design. Noted; MCU is good in normal (I just started using, Ben) casting baits. DT2 is better for trolling which I do the same Bob in the spring for stripers. Lips are the same, I believe that I have lexan that is to thick. I understand and will follow your advice. I might keep some 1/8" around for some projects. By the way Mark the swimbait is turning out great (only two piece for now), this CB lip is just adding to the way it's turning out. Tested it in a pool. Cutting the slot is just simple to do with the blade thickness on the band saw. Thank you, Dale

Thank you Bob, I never would have thought that the CB (circuit board) would hold up under that condition. We troll the cranks 70% of the time during these trips. You can feel them bounce off of rocks and occasionally you will get wedge into one, normally releasing after allowing pressure off. It seems to be logical that the thinner lip would cut the water better, which makes for a better performance. I guess I will be checking the weight difference out this winter. Yeah I'm leaving this area again for a trip for wading mountain rivers for Smallies in a few weeks.I wanted to go to a lighter lip to reflect the smaller baits. I have another question Bop, knowing how CB bends. Have you ever put them in being convexed or concaved? If so have did you ever have any stress fractures in the board over time? Thanks, Dale

I'm getting ready to put lips in some baits. I was thinking about the lips (shape, length and width). I had some failures some time ago in deep divers. I found that the width of the lip was the culprit along with tow eye location. A few did real well tho, thinner lip, I experimented. My baits that failed had two issues, one was the amount of distance from the nose of the bait to the tow eye. Dieter explain what I did wrong there. The next I ended up finding myself, the width of the lip to the length and angle just did not work. The original lip width was approximately 60% to its length. Now it's 35% to its length. These baits had lip thickness at just under 1/8". The baits was used in waters with rock everywhere. The lip had to hold up. Yeah I know I learnt from that width thing. Now I'm getting ready to use circuit board lips for the first time. Is there any of those "you should know" things to keep in mind for this? I have searched some but never really found answers that I'm looking for nor could I ask a question. Thanks, Dale

I'm working on the ones that will be for fishing tomorrow morning. I'm going to stay with the double hinge then. It did well so I'm going with it since I believe I got it right now. Thanks, Dale

Yep, including paints. When I inspected pipelines I had to know and inspect the thickness, so Don and Ben is absolutely correct. Dale

This probably seems to be a daunting task to take up as a hobby. You will get frustrated at times, I'm sure we all do this no matter how long that we have been painting. So you are not alone on that one. Some where a along the way you will find the top of the hill. Things will get easier....I not saying you won't still get headaches from a scheme that you shooting for, but you will start adding things up and how to do what you are looking for. The best advice that I can give is to take care of your equipment and it will last for some time. On a lighter note, you will find that what you have like a brush is not enough. Then the race is on to get all the toys you can as the sayin goes. "If you have the most toys, you win". Have patience on that you will know when you need more equipment(S). LOL Have a great day, Dale

20 mil., I have heard some use 22 mil. There are some infomational video on YouTube. You don't want it to thin nor to heavy for cutting/burning your stencil. Dale

Will do. Some of mine is wood. Thanks, Dale

Yep, as JR has stated that's the way to do it. That is the rule, but since so many of us have put our two cent in on this bait I hope the monitors will be nicer.....? However that's a bait to be proud of. Very nice job. Dale

Some use Frisket Film, I found some at a craft shop. It does just fine. Stencil Ease. I'm just giving you a few more, but Don's right. You can find PETG on eBay and Amazon. Thickness is something to keep in mind. Google the film and you are on your way. Your see film specifically for lures. Dale

I can't agree more BopP. I can't believe that I didn't put this here as much as I check my tools. If you don't make sure that your tools are cutting square you can't go from there. This includes drills, jigs etc. Do your measuring on squares (checking its accuracy) then use that square to align your saws, drills etc. It's all in your details to put out a bait that makes you proud of what you have done. It starts with buying quality materials. There are different qualities in wood to. Dale

I tried the thinner again for 12 hrs.+ on a Bagley. It didn't do anything. I'm just going with blasting them, I'll see how that goes. The baking soda seems more safer. I need to finish a few things so it will be awhile for me. Take care, Dale

Similar to what Chuck has stated. My opinion is "you will never be satisfied with what you have". You will buy, mix, thin etc. to get a different look. Good luck, mean it. Dale

I kept reading about different ways of doing the same techniques. I feel that each one works for the person that is doing it, so I respect their opinion. Or I keep it in my mind for future use....maybe. Remember I have been mainly making prototypes. I have been putting some out in use to. However now I'm finished for awhile and I'm turning towards making baits and put them out on a regular bases. I have known numbers for ballast, lip sizes, hook sizes etc. to just keep making each of them over and over again. One thing that I use now is to cut the lip in while the bait is still in a rectangular or whatever shape. Another is to drill or cut ballast holes or cuts at this time to. I had doubts about putting the ballast holes in now. I now understand this is the best way. Thanks Mark! Even if you don't drill deep enough, you can touch them up later. You will not drill to deep must likely. If you do this now (in block shape) your alignment will be true to the center line (X Line). Just wanted y'all to know that I am paying attention, I just have a bad habit of asking why and then suggesting what if. I'm putting this out here for someone else to use to. So thanks, Dale