SW Lures

I use pine, cedar and poplar. I have used balsa, but I have found the pine and poplar does just fine compared to balsa. As far as well designed wooden bait compared to production plastic bait, there is no comparison, IMO. You would be lucky to get 3 out of 10 plastics to run correctly. A well made wooden one, will run true. I find that wooden ones out performs plastic. Although the wooden was made for me (custom). Now I'm trying it out for myself. We'll see. Dale

I agree with V-Man and Rayguy, what ever you learn, good or bad is a step forward. I myself just got started working on wooden baits. I look at it like this even a failure is not truly a failure. The wire issue can be cured by what V-Man stated or going to a different grade of SS. A good wire that I have found by chatting with a member here is to use "TIG" welding electrodes in 308 stainless steel grade. It doing pretty good so far. It is holding 50 lbs of lead up right now, with only a 1" in the wood and another of 3/4" with a straight shaft. I didn't have a lot of room for a longer hanger shaft in a new design. It's been there for 34 hrs. Point is that it's strong but relatively inexpensive. Learn from everything, ask questions and enjoy the aggravation with us. Just joking, it's fun as heck to me. Dale

I haven't design a topwater bait yet. But have fish with them for a very long time, Barrybait is absolutely right, IMO. If you get the weight right and the nose of the bait up in the air just a little the bait pushes the water as you work the bait. However a Popper, Jitter Bug etc. is a different story. I have a large minnow bait that someone made for me that runs shallow (a tiger color scheme), but does a great job on the top if I just move it along without cranking, because of the way he weighted the bait. BIG FUN, in fast rocky water with Smallies. Make a few with weights in different locations near the rear and find what works for you. Dale

The imagination just gets out of control here. Nope, I don't need nightmares. But I have ours turn down and I'm using mine for the swim test. All's fair game. Chemicals are a concern tho. As far as using one this time of the year, I just don't like getting out when it's below freezing. I know I'm a sissy. And proud of it. Dale

By the way V-Man, I remember in one of your (I believe it was you) comments in some other thread you were explaining about suspending baits. One of the variables was water temperature. You were right, I've seen it for myself last weekend. I tested a bait during late summer, when the water was much warmer one of my baits was close to suspending, a little rise/floating. This weekend with the water temperature lower the same bait sank slowly. I just wanted to mention that. Thanks everyone, Dale

Thanks Dieter Dale

@ V-Man and JR I believe I am understanding but will have to rework the baits (2) to try to save my work. One of the three I will keep as my proto, I keep one unfinished for an future reference, I do that with each one. I believe that I understand enough to keep this to a minimum in the future. @ Dieter The wood has all been the same with the same original weight. Yes Sir I will pay more attention to the leverage of the lip from now on, just like the shape of the body and weight distribution. This has helped me a lot. I believe I know about what size and shape to pay greater attention to. Oh well back at it for this bait. Thanks; Dale

You could try to find it on YouTube. Sometimes they will remove them because of copyrights. Not sure why it has been removed but if it is not on YouTube I'm not sure what you can do. Dale

I found that if I place a lip of a moderate length on a lure, but I put a Tie Eye on the nose of the bait the bait runs side ways (with a light amount of weight). If I put the weight (front part of the bait) that would get the bait close to suspending the bait runs at about 70° down. During my testing stage of baits, I am experimenting with each design to find what can be done with each bait. I have found that I can do one of two techniques. I can cut the lip down or I can bring the Tie out on the lip. I'm making a 4" minnow shape bait with a 1.375" lip at 25°'s. My question is; is there a rule of thumb to the length of the bill for a tie on the nose of a bait or is this issue just a part of the process of designing? All views are welcome. Thanks; Dale

First of all thanks for the link. I have known of Gregg/Doc for quite sometime. He does very good work. I admired his work and his knowledge of marine life. I guess I need to keep this brief because it's close to advisement. The selling of his class is the way he makes a living. I always try to learn something, even if it's not totally new to me. I would say he does frequent TU occasionally. This would not change my view one way or another. Dale

I knew about, hadnt seen it thanks. Dale

I most apologies also. However I was trying to state originally that a straight tie to a bait does hamper the movement. With a ring it will not in my opinion. Adding a snap it will hamper the action only in the weight (very little for what that is). This is where I left the question, I think they are a weak link. This is not scientific, just 50+ years of fishing and watching the reactions of baits. Dale

I wonder if you hook up with a 30+ Striper in a fast (class 1-2 rapids) moving mountain river, just how well will they hold up. I also fish with light line compared to the fish size. We chase and wear them down. I believe in these conditions I will stay with a straight tie to a ring. For other species in different conditions, I may give them a try tho. Dale

If you buy electrodes they are sold by the lb. in the US. The length of the electrode is 3' and if you buy a lb. of .045 diameter, you get about 15-20 electrodes. If you buy .040 you will get 20+. At 20 of 3' electrodes, you will have 60'. Don't consider this as a lot when you are doing through body wires. But for just lips it will last awhile. The price around here is about $8-10 a lb. Dale

Oooops; the word "rod" is a slang word of people around welding profession. The correct word is electrode.

BobP is right, the wire makes all the difference. I chatted with Dieter about this not long ago. I wanted to make a deep diver and to do this I needed to bring the tie out on the lip. I made one like you show in your post. I test everything that I use and found that it puts way to much stress on the bill/lip. So I put a tie that goes back into the body of the bait. This is much stronger for stronger fish hits. I use a stainless steel welding rod, .045 "TIG" rod/wire made from 308 SS. This is US spec.'s. You can get this from any welding supplier. The grade of the metal gives me the strength that I'm looking for but still allows me to bend the metal the way I want. This does not distort as much under stress at the tie during a sudden impact. I like the twisting of the wire like BobP does but I only have it inside the body of the bait (this is for holding strength). I do the slot and the hole technique also. If possible I prefer the hole only, just because of the clean look. One thing I forgot, Bob is right about soft metals, STAY AWAY FROM ANNEALED METALS......unlike what I did at first. I hope this helps. Dale

I hope all goes well and get better. Dale

@ V-Man Very interesting as JimP stated. Please do keep us informed. As I stated earlier is that I do not use a snap swivels, but I do use split rings. The main reason why I don't use the snaps during actual fishing is because years ago the snaps were at best very weak. As you and I have talked about, your best catches is only going to be as good as your weakest link of your tackle. I need to quote that. This leads me into another thought. I almost know that once your design is completed you will test the design. This information is what I would like to know. I also suggest a pull stress test and a sudden impact test as you and I have discussed in the past. I have did the math since I did the last test, because I'm doing it again on other materials and techniques I'm looking at using. The math comes up to about 750 psi. of sudden impact. This maybe off some because I can't remember the number exactly. Once these test are completed I will post my findings in a new thread. The reason for my over engineering of baits is because of losing fish of such large sizes due to inferior materials. Many tears have ran down these cheeks. Take Care Dale

V-Man as you know I test everything I use. But I haven't found out the effect of a snap connection. I'm like Mark, a little lazy, mainly tho it's for the speed of testing. During fishing I do not use a snap connector. I do use a split ring for an more true movement, my weight calculations takes this into consideration of this material but only a guess of a effect of a snap. By reading this thread I'm going to slow down on my testing and tie to the bait as I do when fishing, from this point forward. At this point in my learning of how to make baits, I'm trying to get close to slow rising (floating) or falling of my baits. With the knowledge of a true suspending bait, is almost impossible in all conditions. No more snaps for me. Dale

The reason I mentioned the files is that they are safe, fairly inexpensive and they remove material slow....ly for someone that is beginning. I now cut out on my band saw, sand down to close shape (or use a duplicator) and then start the final shaping with the files. I just find that I can get the symmetry that I'm looking for easier. I know this sounds a tad bit crazy, but I can feel and see the creation of the shape using the files better. I do use a vise that can spin anyway I want it to be. That's what floats my boat. As Rayguy says, just my two bits. Dale