exx1976

I just threw the lip on the scale with the hooks and whatnot and added it under "external hardware". My lure body was already drilled for hook hangers and cut for a lip when I weighed it. For that matter, as I said, it already had two holes drilled to accept ~.02 ci of lead each, as well. (.254" x ~.425"). Like anything else, the data you get out of the formulas is only as good as the data you enter. But it makes sense to me that I should weigh it BEFORE drilling the holes for the ballast - otherwise, how do I know how much ballast to add?? LOL

It must just be you. 1.1 > 1, therefore it sinks. Especially if one takes into consideration that water actually only has a density of 1 when it's a 4 degrees celsuis. Literally EVERY other possible temperature, it has lower density. I actually changed the value in the spreadsheet to .996 instead of 1, just to make sure it floats when the water is very warm or very cold.

I also noticed that (at least in the pic you posted) you have "weight of body minus holes", which is presumably calculated using the volume of body to be removed to add the ballast. Interesting. Either that's new, or I missed it previously. The 24g I was using was after my approximated ballast holes had been drilled. I did measure the holes, and calculated the volume, and the holes I drilled to get a weight of 24g with holes already made would provide enough volume for approximately 7.5g of lead. The way you have it in the spreadsheet is much better, since I should definitely be calculating the ballast BEFORE drilling the holes. I got lucky. Lol we'll call that one an inexpensive lesson.

In looking at your spreadsheet, I think the field labeling is likely going to prove challenging for the intended purpose, which is (as I understand it) to determine the amount of ballast to add to an individual bait prior to epoxy. I mean, once epoxy is on, it's a bit too late to be trying to add internal ballast. The fields as shown require a "sacrificial lure", which sort of defeats that purpose, no? Further, this is all predicated on the fact that a 6 year old post was correct in that the density is actually 1.1. I went with it since it was all I could find, but I intend on weighing some resin and hardener. I do have a laboratory-grade scale availailable (a&d fx120i), so I'll do my best to eyeball the miniscus on 2.5cc of resin and 2.5cc of hardener and let you know what I come up with - for etex, anyway. That should provide the density, and then it'll be a simple matter I would think of adding a single field for "volume of epoxy applied", which could then be used to both increase the volume of the wood blank, as well as increase the mass of the finished lure. Once you've measured some epoxy and applied a coat to a few lures, you get a pretty good idea of how much epoxy is required per lure. My recollection is that I end up tossing about half of a mixing to do a coat on a single lure, but 5cc is the smallest amount I can make since the smallest graduation I have is 2.5cc. I'll need to pay closer attention to this to fine-tune this. Also, one other thing I noticed on the spreadsheet is that it only calculates the sink rate, not the "float rate". Meaning, for a crank bait, if I stop cranking, how quickly should I expect to see it back on the surface again? When I entered the numbers for my floating lure, I got a #NUM error in the spreadsheet. I didn't dig into it to figure out what that error was exactly, but I suspect that the rise rate may also be affected somewhat by the shape of the lure, and the drag of the line/leader, so perhaps this isn't something that can be calculated. I just though it would be nice to know what that 105.1% equated to since I had no frame of reference.

I found an old post on here from 2014 that said that the density of 2-part epoxy is ~1.1. So, figuring that I use approximately 2.5ccs of epoxy for each coat, and I apply 3 coats, that's 7.5ccs of epoxy. Times 1.1 gives me 8.25 grams. So I used 32.25 grams as the weight of my block, and then I used 62.9278 as the volume (added 7.5 to my previous volume (to account for the growth of the overall size of the lure by adding the epoxy - was easy to figure since the cups I use to measure and mix epoxy are graduated in cc), which was provided by the spreadsheet using the .4330 density), and I have a new density for the wood and the epoxy combined of .5125 grams per cubic centimeter. Does this sound like the correct way to go about it? I also added 1 more gram of internal hardware, just to be sure on that front, for a total of 5, and also added another gram of external hardware, for a total of 13. With 10g of ballast, which is two 1/4" diameter holes approximately 1/2" deep each, my buoyancy is at 108.6%. Does all this seem correct, or have I gone off the deep end?

Ok, I'm doing things correctly this time. I got a block of the wood I'm using, a square block, and measured it in mm using a digital caliper. 240.19 cubic cm. It weighed 104 grams. That says my density is .4330, which is pretty much spot-on with what I've read online for this type of wood (.43). My carved & shaped blank weighs 24 grams. The weight of internal hardware is 4 grams. The weight of external hardware is 12 grams. This says 15 grams of ballast (lead, in my case) should get me 105.1% buoyancy, which means it floats. This is the desired result (though I don't know how fast that will rise, or anything else about it - just that it should float). 15 grams of lead equals a 1/4" hole 1.6 inches in depth, or three 1/4" holes that are 1/2" deep each. Ok, this all makes sense to me so far. What I'm trying to do now is to determine the weight and/or the density of the epoxy I'm using - eTex Lite. Certainly that is going to add some weight to the finished lure, though it will also add volume, so it will affect all these calculations somehow. How do I go about accounting for this? I'm thinking that I can take the carved blank, and epoxy it with no hardware or weight in it. Add the desired number of coats of epoxy, and then weigh it and do the archimedes test to get the volume of it. That would give me the density of the "lure", not accounting for hooks and the like. I would then use *that* density in place of the actual wood density to figure out how much ballast can then be added. Would that be correct? Or does someone already know the approximate density of eTex? Am I overthinking this? Certainly I'm not the first person to try to solve this problem. Thanks!! (and special thanks to Vodkaman for the spreadsheet!)

Wow. That one would certainly have gotten me upset! Indeed, I did learn to never finish a lure without testing. Took me many teachings prior to my actually learning the lesson, however - two fully painted & epoxied "glide baits", and 8 crankbaits. Ugh. I did make 3 prototypes after the sinking crankbait lesson, but prior to getting your spreadsheet (thank you again for that, and I do need to use it). These three were just quick-sealed with CA, and I hung hooks on them. The only thing they are missing as far as weight is the epoxy. Anyhow, all 3 float. I just drove around for a little over an hour looking for some water that was 1) not frozen and 2) deep enough to test in. Finally found some. Two of the three were "ok", but not *quite* what I was looking for. The third had no weight in it - I was hoping the weight of the hooks & rings may be enough to ballast it properly - that was an utter failure. Oh well. At least I learned something today.

So, the very first two baits I made were supposed to be glide baits. I just dove in head-first, with very little research. Made two, out of two different types of wood. One of the types was Aspen, the other was.. Hickory or Mahogany, I forget which. Added some weight (I guessed). The Aspen one wouldn't sink no matter what I did - I got a bunch of those stick-on lead strips from the tackle shop. Put them ALL on. Couldn't get it to sink at all. The other one sunk like a rock. This was about 6 weeks ago. So I says to myself, I says "Self, Aspen is very bouyant. Open water is about gone here now, so I can't really test glide baits. We'll have to wait for next season for those. Instead, let's make crankbaits. Those are easier. Those are SUPPOSED to float. We'll use Aspen, since I couldn't make that sink before!" So I made 8 lures from Aspen. 6 of them came out gorgeous (the epoxy on the other 2 was a bit heavy and they ended up with bulges on the tail, but I digress). I weighted them the same as the glide baits - nevermind the fact they were 1/4" thinner than the initial glide bait attempt, and had much more material removed from the profile besides. Oops. I meticulously painted them; they are absolutely beautiful, given my skill level. Spent probably 10 hours at the airbrush (including cleaning/color changes, etc) to paint the 8 of them. They all sink like ROCKS. Now I have a copy of the spreadsheet to properly figure out ballast, and do all that, so I know where I went wrong. I know how to fix my problems. Not looking for help there (yet, anyway - LOL). What I'm struggling with is the motivation to get off my butt and get back to it. I put SO much work into those first 8, and they were utter failures. Thinking about giving them to friends as Christmas tree ornaments, but I'm afraid they weigh so much they'll just pull the branches right to the ground. LOL Anyhow.... Help me find my motivation again. Tell me a story of a time when you spent a LOT of time making a complete lure, and it ended up just being an utter disaster. Didn't float, or didn't sink, or fell apart the first cast, or the first fish, or whatever. Just need to know I'm not alone in this mistake. LOL (PS - no, I'm not giving up. It's just winter and I'm in a funk. LOL)

Having just gone through all of this myself, I got an Iwata Eclipse HP-CS with a Paasche compressor with a small tank. If I had it to do over again, I'd get one with a bigger tank. I find quite a bit of moisture with the smaller tank, and the compressor seems to run pretty frequently. I'm using all Createx paints. Wicked, regular, irridescent, flourescent - all Createx. There are some deals available out there, be sure to shop around. I chose to go this route because of reading about lots of problems with people starting with inexpensive equipment and getting frustrated. I wanted things to work correctly, and be as trouble-free as possible. I feel I have achieved that goal, now it's all about increasing my skill. Other supplies you may want: A sprayout pot that doubles as an airbrush holder. A set of cleaning tools (some airbrush pots come as part of a kit that includes these). Paper or plastic cups to mix paints in. If using paper, make SURE that there is no coating in the cups (some paper cups have a wax coating). If you're not sure, fill the cup with boiling water. If anything floats to the top, or you see any colors or a film, do not use that brand/type of cup. Paintbrushes to clean the cup of the airbrush. I use disposable 1/8" rodbuilding brushes. Thinner, usually from the same brand as your paints. I have a large bottle of Createx 4011. Airbrush cleaner.

Ah - perhaps my initial request for you to elaborate was malformed. You reply did elaborate on exactly what I was asking about; that is, your views on the topic changing, not on wood. And you're right - I got my answers. I'll simply turn off notifications and let it go it's merry way. Apologies, Jon_P

The only reason the post "drifted" into anything is because someone came in here and interjected their unsolicited opinion. The title of the post even includes the word "wood", and nowhere in here did I ask what other materials I could or should use. I fail to see the relevance of this. This is also not a discussion on the perfect material, nor is it my trying to espouse the perfectness of wood. I'm uncertain that I understand your point of view on this. Could you elaborate?

Might I suggest you go start your own thread then to tell people what is convenient for you? Take the hint already...

Yeah, like having to listen to at least half this board tell me constantly to use plastic.

Or I could just keep using wood because that's what I want to make lures out of. Honestly, the number of "use some other material" posts on here are altogether ridiculous.

Any particular brand of UV resin you recommend? Also, how does the hardness compare to like eTex or EX-74? I'll be using it on Musky baits, so I need something as hard as possible to try to keep those teeth out as best I can. LOL

What's the working time like? D2T is just too short for me.

What epoxy did you switch to?

Ouch. Glad to hear those times are behind you!

Well, they aren't QUITE small enough to fit in your hand, but I think I get the point. The smallest I'm making are 7", and I plan to make some 10-14" ones as well.

Indeed - that's about what my average was per bait, right at an hour - including band saw, belt sander, center line, drilling, chisel, and sandpaper. The chisel and sandpaper were the most tedious part, though, and ate up easily 30-40 minutes of those 60. I may be getting ahead of myself in terms of wanting to cut down the time so I can produce more of them, and faster - but I figure even if this hobby never makes me a dime, a router is still a good tool to have around the house.

Holy..... I was like "Wow, what an amazing story!!!" Then, the motor falling off thing... Yep, that's already happened to me. Luckily, the lure just fell on the table, and it happened SO soon after applying epoxy that I just picked it up, brushed it out, added a bit more, and stuck it back on the turner. LOL However, in order for that story to become true for me, I'd first have to have all those other perfect things line up for me - which isn't likely to happen for quite some time given my current skill level. Thanks for the laugh though. And yes, I'd most definitely need something to drown my sorrows at that point. LOL

Indeed. #1 rule is no alcohol with power tools. Alcohol and painting, on the other hand.... Lol but I'm a bourbon guy anyway, and that doesn't require refrigeration.

Well, wait... Didn't you say that wood density can vary? I haven't looked at the spreadsheet very closely.. I'm guessing the lure volume is entered in a separate cell, thus by weighing subsequent bodies (assuming they are all pretty close to identical) the weight (along with the example determined volume) will provide the density, yes?

Yep, this is my first go round with a router. I have the fence and all the guards on, and am only using it for round overs. It's been saving me a ton of time. I work bare-handed, short sleeves when using that, or any of the other power tools. Unless someone else comes in with a convincing argument, I think I may be able to skip the planer. As for the list of other stuff that was posted by JD, I have well over 100 different paint colors, have forstner bits, and all the other stuff on that list - except a shop beer fridge. Maybe I need one of those! Lol

Ahh. The temporary CA seal coat is what I was missing. That's the step that prevents water intrusion. I use minwax sanding sealer on my baits. Would you recommend I do that, and THEN the CA, or can I simply do the CA and omit the sanding sealer altogether?