nickcalderone Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Hi everyone! This is my first post, so go easy on me. After reading some of the posts here, I decided to have a go at making a proto-type bait. I bought some soft modeling clay today and started making a master. I plan to use this to make my mold. I also purchased an RTV silicone kit so that I could make a mold tonight...or maybe in the morning. Anyway, the bait is supposed to replicate a tiger salamander in it's larval stage. The bass in the rivers here eat these things like candy in the springtime. Have a look and tell me what you think.This is my first attempt, so I am sure I will have to make several changes before it's ready to make a mold. I am open to any suggestions or criticism...so BE HONEST. The red gills will be poured seperately and then will slide over the head and lock into place where the small groove is around the neck. Hopefully, they will pulsate because they are so thin.(thats the idea anyway:lol: ) Sorry the pics are kinda grainy...I have a very old digital camera, but it still works! This is a great site, by the way! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassnRandy Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 It's a great bait. We have them up here also. They call thme Hellbenders locally. They get to over a foot long sometimes. Your clay work is great. Now how do you plan on attaching the collar to imitate the gills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmik26 Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Its your first post and your not asking how to heat the plastic so your on the right track... LOL...just a little humor.... Anyways, looks pretty darn good to me. How long is it? If its a 1 piece mold you should be fine. If you plan on making it a 2 piece you might have problems filling the curl tails and legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 I think the lure looks great, the loose gill idea is original at least as far as this site is concerned, I've never seen it before. It should snap into place just fine. Have you developed a venting strategy for the tail. If not it may save some heartache to get it sorted out before you make the mould. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted October 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 WOW! Thanks for the replies! Lets see... Randy, the collar has a hole in the middle which slides over the diamond shaped head and then locks into a small groove...you might not be able to see it in the pics. Jmik26, it will be a one piece mold, so hopefully I won't encounter too many probs. I figured I would start out simple and go from there. Vodkaman, (he he , I like the name) , as I am new, I have no idea what a "venting strategy" is for the tail. (unless you are referring to the "other" kind of "vent" which all fish have...but um...I dont think this bait will be eating much...that was a little humor) Seriously, I need some help here...venting? Teach me Yoda... THANKS ALL! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted October 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Its your first post and your not asking how to heat the plastic so your on the right track... LOL...just a little humor....Anyways, looks pretty darn good to me. How long is it? If its a 1 piece mold you should be fine. If you plan on making it a 2 piece you might have problems filling the curl tails and legs. Sorry...I forgot to answer your other question...it's about 6 1/4" long. Oh, and do I heat the plastic before or after I mix in the beer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 I'm just entertaining myself on my day off. I was assuming a two piece mould, so, as a one piece, the problem goes away. The venting on a two piece closed mould is to allow the air to escape, otherwise it would block the plastic and give you an incomplete pour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted October 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 So, the air-vent is necessary for the bait to pour correctly? It will be a single cavity flat sided bait...does that make a differnce? I am still a long way from being ready to pour. I still have to make a few more proto-types of this bait to make sure everything is correct. As you can tell this proto type is not perfectly symetrical either, so that will have to be corrected also. I hope that I can work out all of the details before I get too excited and start pouring RTV uncontrollably! I'm kidding...I will show some restraint. I also have some balsa crank-bait proto types that I am carving and sanding away on tonight. Guess I can't post those pics here though... I am curious about this "venting" though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 You stated that yours was a one piece mould, so no venting is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDC Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Make sure you are using non-sulfuric clay, otherwise your RTV will not cure. Cool idea with the gills. We call them waterdogs in TX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassnfool Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Awesome!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmik26 Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Later on down the road when you get to a two piece mold you might have to get into venting. Venting allows the air to escape out of a narrow cavity so the plastic can gravitiy feed. Look at the lines milled in Bob's mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted October 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 MDC, I am not sure if the clay is non-sulfuric or not. It is a very light weight modeling compound almost like foam or marshmallow. Will this work? Thanks for the encouragement, Bassnfool! Jmik26, thanks for the explanation of the vents. Now I understand what they are for. When I am ready for a two-piece mold, I will keep that in mind. I have a crawfish immitation prototype that will be a good candidate for that. I am assuming that I will have to coat the prototypes in some sort of epoxy to make the surface smooth? Right now, they are kind of grainy due to the consistency of the modeling material. I am not sure if I can sand this stuff, but I will give it a try a little later on today...maybe 1000 grit wet sand? Can I use regular spray on clear enamel to seal the prototypes? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance everyone! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted October 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 By the way, does anyone think that the body should be flatter and wider? I am working on the second prototype and need suggestions...please. What about the head?? Should it be more shovel or spade shaped? Overall, should the bait be shortened in length? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted October 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Ok... I have started another proto-type. This one has a thicker body and a flat eel like tail. The gills are slightly larger also. It is overall a little bit shorter than the previous proto-type. I still can't seem to get the head right...any suggestions? I am working on a third with yet another head design. I am going to try to find a better modeling material as this stuff is not very good to work with. It does not smooth easily and you cannot join two seperate pieces. Any suggestions on a type of clay to use? Any help would be appreciated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 To be honest, I have never fished any of these type of bait, I mainly design hard baits. But I do understand a lot about what makes a bait move in the water. Your biggest problem is not getting the bait to look perfect, but getting it to move right. This may take several tries and experiments, a few failures and a few vodka's. The first one looked good. I suggest that you progress that one through to a finish and test it. Some of the later clays that you posted, have straight tails. It is the curly tail that gives this type of lure its life, as it fights against the water. Jmik26's creature has shaped claws. These act in a similar way to the lip on hard baits. They look like they move the claws up and down, out and in, as they fight against the water. The straight tail clay is likely to produce a lure that swims like a lollypop stick. I could be wrong, that is the beauty of this business, just when you think you think that you have cracked it, the rules seem to change! Once you have a design that moves 'right' for the fish, then develope the aesthetics for the angler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted October 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Vodka, Thanks for the input! I will finish the 1st prototype and then mold it in another material so that I can make a mold. The material I have been using is just not good for making smooth surfaces. I am going to try regular modeling clay to see how well it does. As for the tail on the second prototype, I was just trying a different approach. I thought perhaps the same principle as a paddle tail worm? Maybe if I put the curl tail on the thicker body? Or should I just keep the original elongated body with the curl tail? Thanks again for the feedback! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 A paddle tail would work well, again, it acts like a rear mounted lip and will give a fish tail movement. A thicker body will have less ability to move. The body should taper down to the tail. The section close to the tail should not be round, but preferably a thin vertical rectangle. This will limit the movement to a sideways motion. How good the action is will depend on the taper and the stiffness of the plastic. Trial and error will be the only way. Check out existing baits for a starting design but be prepared to experiment. I have read that many lure designers use clay and coat it with epoxy, such as devcon. As yellowing is not a problem on a master, 5 min epoxy would be good enough. Clay in such a thin shape is very delicate, as you probably realize by now. The epoxy will give a glass finish and add some strength, but still use great care when removing from the mould. A mould release agent of some sort may help. Maybe someone can advise on that. Try a search on ‘release agent’, there should be loads of info right here on TU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloomisman Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 looks really good. Like MDC said we call them waterdogs. but any way I like the bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassnRandy Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I like the origional better. It will supply more action. Most of these live salmanders are in murkier water and you will want to put ou more vibration to be effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted October 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Thanks for the input. I am refining my designs. I have also been doing some research (thanks Vodkaman) that I hope will yield better results overall. Keep the suggestions coming! THANKS AGAIN! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROWINGADUBAY Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 looks like a rebel redneck with legs the purple ones worked awesome up here for walleyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artificial All The Way Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 By the way, does anyone think that the body should be flatter and wider? I am working on the second prototype and need suggestions...please. What about the head?? Should it be more shovel or spade shaped? Overall, should the bait be shortened in length? Very cool lure. I made one that could be it's twin big brother minus the side fins. I use mine for Stripers so they start at 10". With a one sided mold like your doing my sluggo, Yum, Fin-S type lures swim flat side up. Not sure what yours will do with that curled tail. Mine are straight more eel like. If your lures swim flat side up like mine your head is upside down. I found the head shape doesn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEE Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Jmik26...not trying to hijack the thread...but is that an older mold...do not see it on his site and have been looking for a mold just like that. That is a cool looking bait. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIUBASSER Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Dude, both baits look great. I think i like the curl tail just a little better than the straight, but I'm impressed by both for sure. My only suggestion to you would be to make a mold out of Durhams water putty first. You can pick it up a Lowes for like 7 or 8 bucks. By using this stuff you wont waste your RTV on molds that you may never use again. Do a forum search with "water putty" and you can see how its done. Its easy, quick and cheap. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
