Vodkaman Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 It is sad and too bad. He may have gone home, but we still have the ball. I think that you were right to raise the issue Mike and I thought that you did it nicely, not in a disrespectful way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokeyJ Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Well, I had a much longer post that I was going to put up regarding this matter, but decided it was not my place considering my junior status on this site. I will say one thing, though. Click on his profile and look up all the posts he did make. I found it answered alot of questions I had regarding this whole debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippingjig Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I did the same thing Smokey... never really remembered him getting into the "helping" mode like so many other fine people on TU. His posting history tells it all. He does make some great looking baits though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predator Bass Baits Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Ya they are nice looking baits but the tail looks thin, the paint probably falls off when it hits the water., It probably swims upside down. I sure hope he did not figure out how to make them off this site with everyones help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I always have to ask myself have I been too harsh, as I know I have a tendancy to shoot from the hip. I have even made a personal rule, that when I feel angry or hard done by, I have to wait 24 hours before typing a response. I have thought hard on this one. I have read the back posts and have to agree with you all, that no real contributions were forth comming, mostly he was touting for work etc. Their is nothing really ground breaking about painting lures, nothing that hasn't been done before. All we wanted to know was what method he used or what paint he applied, what did he use for the scale pattern etc. He would have increased the respect that he already had from the TU members and probably sold even more lures. I am really baffled why he should take umbrage at our reaction to such an un-cooperative attitude. If you are reading Mr K. Their is really no point in leaving, that achieves nothing. All we ask is you try and get with the program and contribute. It is quite painless and will not damage your business, in fact business would probably increase as we all prefer to buy from the good guys. I can't speak for everyone, but I have found that most of the guys here are quite forgiving. So I suggest that you swallow your pride and get back on the horse and contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokeyJ Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 Well, Kamakazee sent me a PM that he said I could post on the boards if I so choose, so here it goes: When I started doing this close to 15 years ago a guy that I had a chance meeting with was kind enough to get me started with where to buy a Lee pot' date=' plastic and glitter, MF Manufacturing. At the time I lived on a dairy farm where I grew-up and had intentions of selling this stuff. Well a few months later a guy that had a tackle shop around here heard I was making worms and wanted to see them. After he saw them he wanted some for the store and that's where it all started. At the time learning about this (making worms) was the SCHOOL OF HARD KNOCKS, learning to make and match colors on your own! No internet then. The best info I ever got on handpouring of plastics and other ways of using plastics was from a couple of different guys that were fixing to retire. Being that they were retiring I wasn't going to be compatition. There have been some things I've searched for 3 years before finding the answers to my questions. Back in the first 5 or 6 years there were few handpourers and I had all the buisness I wanted. Now about every area of the county has there own handpourers and tackle makers. Basically what it boils down to now is everyones slice of the pie gets smaller so, I realize this site is for sharing info for the hobbyist or someone starting out. You may now see my reluctance in giving any more than basic info. You guys have it good, guess I'm a little bit old school. David Pook feel free to post this on TU, maybe they will understand. Now, given this information, here is my take on the situation trying to be an objective 3rd party. Kamakazee sees the information asked for as a trade secret. Now, I am apt to give him this one because of the fact that I have seen questions asked about painting soft plastics (how, with what, etc.) and no one has really answered the question, at least not well enough for Tubeman or I am sure he would have found the info with a forum search. Kama has been doing this as his sole source of income for close to 15 years, so I can understand him being hesitant to divulge things that others of us who do this as a hobby or secondary income wouldn't think twice about sharing. The main issue I see here has to do with board etiquette, and different people's perceptions of what that etiquette entails. Tubeman asked in a previous post of Kama's about how he painted his paddletails, as well as sent him a PM about it. Now common board etiquette would have been for Kama to PM tubeman back and politely tell him that he considers that information a trade secret and would rather not share. I will have to agree with Tubeman on that one. Now whether Tubeman should have come out against him (no matter how polite it may have been) publicly after on PM not responded to, I cannot say. I think I would have tried a few more PMs before calling him out publicly on the boards. Now I think where Kama got himself into trouble is the fact that he has posted I believe three seperate threads showcasing his paddletails on the boards (not in the gallery) and didn't answer any questions about them except where to buy them. General board etiquette would assume that someone posting these baits (especially ones that have been so heavily discussed lately and so much information has been shared about -thank Delw-) on the boards that one is kind of implying that they have helpful tips to offer about the bait, hence the description of the soft plastic forum: "Members assemble here to discuss tips on pouring your own line of soft plastic baits." By not sharing any information whatsoever, Kama has given the impression that his sole use for the board is advertising. I personally don't have a problem with people using this board as a means of promoting their product, and I don't think other people do either. But I think that the expectation is that if you use these boards to advertise that you contribute something back to the community knowledge base in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint308 Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I have stayed out of this topic so far. However, I want to say a couple of things. We all remember the post a while back by Hillbilly Lures. A lot of people spoke out against the Hillbilly. Why, because he was wrong. That is the way it should be here. I am my brother's keeper. I have had enormous amounts of help from people like Jim, Chris and Nova just to name a few, and I try to help as many as I can. A lot of people ask me if I would like some baits in return for the help. The answer is generally no, just pay it forward. So that brings me to this post. I am not sure how all this started or why, but are we in grade school. Do you like me, check yes or no. That is BS. Kama needs to come out and explain himself, not send out a press release through another member. I have nothing against Kama and wish him all the best, but man it is time to realize you are wrong and come back to reality. Saint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB GONE Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I guess what I don't get then after reading all of his sob story is that SO many helped him...why not pay it forward???? It is also crap to have to PM someone time after time to see IF they are going to respond. Others said it well, go back and look at his posts. He is using TU as a way to get ideas to further his agenda and business but not giving a damn thing back.... While my ideas are not always right or the best, I will provide them when asked or I feel like I have insight. If he hasn't learned anything from this forum, he should not be a member and be selling his products in posts. If he has learned even one thing from TU, he should have the fortitude to respond to individuals whether he has info to provide or not. It is all good though as what comes around, goes around. Be cut throat, and eventually, your throat will be cut... Now...can we make some baits or what???!!! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmokeyJ Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I want to say I am in agreement with everyone on this one. I was just trying to honestly and objectively look at it from both sides. I agree with Jim, though, lets stop beating a dead horse and get back to talking about baits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Prager Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 I'll second that motion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncleskippy Posted October 24, 2007 Report Share Posted October 24, 2007 You are SO Right Jim. I have been pouring for little over 2 years and without this site, I would haven't even tried. I have been making jigs and spin baits for about 15 years and I do try to share my knowledge where I have knowledge to share. One of the biggest contributers of tube knowledge is Bojon. This site gets the thinking juices started for me. I haven't posted much, because usually the answer to most questions I read are answered before I get a chance. There are SO MANY Here that help, I can't thank enough. IMO Uncleskippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsworms Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 I think Jim said it best.......let's get back to making baits. I probably should have locked this thread long ago. Sorry about that fellas. I'm locking this bad boy now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
