Calhoun Plastics

[carolinamike]

Hello Everybody!

I am Mike, owner and operator of Carolina Baits. I have been doing hand pours for about 8 years now. For some reason, I have just now discovered this website. I currently use LC plastic and always have, but after talking with Chuck at Calhoun, I think I am going to give them a try. We are currently in the process of going from hand pour to large scale injection. My question is and I forgot to ask: Does Calhoun's plastic float? Also, how is the smell of the finished product vs. LC.

Good Fishing! Send Rain!

[alsworms]

Welcome Mike!

I think you'll get a WIDE array of answers on this one as each member has had various results with each brand of plastisol. I'll start by giving you my opinion...........

Calhoun plastic does float and it has very little odor in the finished product. The problem I had when using it was occasional inconsistency and bubbling. The key word here being "occasional". Didn't happen often, but when it did......it would ruin a good run of plastics. I haven't poured for several months now, but I believe I've tried just about every brand out there. In my opinion, you can't beat MF. It's a little pricy, but you pay for what you get.

[Tubeman]

We use nothing but Calhoun here, all handpours. When you go to injection, I think you'll find you will have less problems as Calhoun (uncoloured, clear) does turn that ugly tan colour after a few hours in the pot doing handpours. Injection is so fast, I don't think you'll have those problems. No one is cheaper than Calhoun and Al is right about you get what you pay for. In your case though, I dont think it will make a difference in the finished product.

[carolinamike]

Al & Mike,

Thanks! I don't think overheating will be a problem for me, since we will be heating through thermal couplings. I just want to make sure that I am going to have the same consistency with Calhoun as I do with LC. We are still going to do some hand pours. If anyone out there is having trouble with Lee pots scorching or would like to turn LC's injector into gravity pour I can help. I love this website. Please keep us in your prayers and wish us luck on this big and expensive investment. If I can be of any help, let me know.

And by the way I did build my own injector like LC's for a lot less money.

[SwampBaits]

Mike, if you search for "injection" machines on this forum you will find a member that made his own injection machine. You might enjoy the read! You seem like someone that is going to give a lot of good help to this forum. Thanks for joining and enjoy!

[alsworms]

Another thing Mike.....

If you're planning on using the plastic for injection molding, Chuck from Calhoun should have no problem shooting you some sample plastic to try before you make that big step.

Good luck with that!

[Smallie]

Al & Mike,

[snip] I just want to make sure that I am going to have the same consistency with Calhoun as I do with LC. [snip]

I have used Calhoun, LC and MF. In my opinion, they are all different. I like MF because its viscosity seems to reduce to my desired level at a lower temperature than the others. Their consistency has been good for me but I have only purchased twice.

I don't have any experience with injection but it would seem prudent to take Al's Worms' advice and speak to the manufacturer.

[earthworm77]

Mike, I relied on Calhouns for several years and when it is formulated correctly, you will love it. In the past there have been issues with the plastic bubbling. I was a staunch defender of the quality of their plastic as I went through many, many gallons without this issue. Last year, it happened to me and I became so fed up with it I switched to Ozark Tackles plastic which I continue to use today.

[BassnRandy]

I used calhouns and was very unhappy. Bubbled terribly and I thought the baits smelled really plasticy (bad spelling) when done it is also a little stiffer when it cools. On a good note it had better hook holding than the others for me. I like L.C. 536 for my finesse baits and gobies otherwise i have poured about 30 gallons of M-F supersoft now and will never look back unless I have major pronlems with it. Shake the jug every other few days and no settling problems or bubble problems at all.

[SwampBaits]

I used calhouns and was very unhappy. Bubbled terribly and I thought the baits smelled really plasticy (bad spelling) when done it is also a little stiffer when it cools. On a good note it had better hook holding than the others for me. I like L.C. 536 for my finesse baits and gobies otherwise i have poured about 30 gallons of M-F supersoft now and will never look back unless I have major pronlems with it. Shake the jug every other few days and no settling problems or bubble problems at all.

Plus MF plastic comes in a sweet 5 gallon jug, with a handle and tap out for a pouring spout....how much easier can it be!

[Richard Prager]

Plus MF plastic comes in a sweet 5 gallon jug, with a handle and tap out for a pouring spout....how much easier can it be!

...and they ship out on the same day. I've never had to wait for my merchandise from M-F

[Senkosam]

M-F or LC have been consistent. Ozark is up there because EW says it is! LOL (He pours constantly and uses a lot of plastic for many lure types! He would be one I would trust versus occassional pourers.)

(Oh, and service it consistently the best from both sources.)

[Delw]

Hello Everybody!

I am Mike, owner and operator of Carolina Baits. I have been doing hand pours for about 8 years now. For some reason, I have just now discovered this website. I currently use LC plastic and always have, but after talking with Chuck at Calhoun, I think I am going to give them a try. We are currently in the process of going from hand pour to large scale injection. My question is and I forgot to ask: Does Calhoun's plastic float? Also, how is the smell of the finished product vs. LC.

Good Fishing! Send Rain!

Your going to use a hot pot that has pressure? thats completely different than an injection machine .

The problem with hot pots is that very few have an equal heating area, some spots get hotter than others basically its just a glorified lee production pot. Adding heat stabilizer is a must for ANY plastic that sits in a hot pot for more than 45 mins, its recommended that heat stabilizer is put in every 30 mins. the heat stabilizer is what burns off first and with out it ANY plastic will discolor over time.

the amount of heat stabilizer you use should be about 2.5 oz per gallon of plastic.

M-F or LC have been consistent. Ozark is up there because EW says it is! LOL (He pours constantly and uses a lot of plastic for many lure types! He would be one I would trust versus occassional pourers.)

(Oh, and service it consistently the best from both sources.)

Frank Frank Frank,

there you go talking about stuff and not getting the whole truth in the picture again.

you haven't boughten any Calhoun plastic in what 3 years? well before the bubble issue. and if I remember correctly you quit buying it due to the price of shipping. Then your buddy bought some and had problems with it ( which we corrected for him immediately BTW , which you seem to never mention). I told him to dump the plastic as it wasn't good . Instead he gave it to you or you bought it from him and you used it, Now you have bad plastic but yet insinuate that its normal calhoun plastic.

it was either you or your buddy who called to tell me that you were using it and I told one of you that it wasn't a good idea cause I would hear about it some how some way. and that was what a year and a half ago maybe a year?

over the last few years you have always found a way to knock some one for something even if it has to do with stuff that should have been thrown away. I've seen you hammer almost every company that sells anything to do with bait making, even though the description of there contents was clearly marked everywhere, and you will probably continue to do so with out any clue what so ever. Either grow up or at least get your facts straight and tell the truth not just part of it to benefit your self proclaimed ego.

For those who know me know I don't feed people full of BS and I don't favor one product over another, and I will help anyone that needs it whether you are using what we sell or anyone else's.

The bubble issue with Calhoun,

A nightmare if you ask me , however there are a lot of misconception about it. There are also a lot of BS running around from a few people as well.

so lets get some facts.

The bubbles started about 2 years ago. At first it was just a few customers and they didn't have the problems all the time, I didn't have problems not even the slightness then all of a sudden I did. then the next day Bam no problems.

this problem went on for about 3-4 months, we had some outside testing done as well ( not affiliated with calhoun).

There are all kinds of variables that fall into cooking plastic and trying to sort everything out is a pain in the butt.

only ONE thing was common in the bubble issue from what we found and thats the microwave.

if it was cooked in a pot or in a REAL injection Machine there was NO problems, about 6 months into this bubble issue the issue came up in an injection machine ( a real one) these guys have about 35 machines and shoot 1500 gals of calhoun plastic a WEEK if I remember correctly.

then the problem went away as fast as it came. Occasionally we get some plastic that has bubbles in it. it always happens around NOV. why? I have no clue but we haven't ruled out moisture.

We have found that in a microwave if you put your temp setting down to 3/4 or 1/2 it works better when and if you get bubbles. we also found that if you get bubbles then nuke the plastic for 15-30 seconds more and generally they dispearse.

heres were some of it gets tricky.

adding salt to ANY plastic will cause bubbles, Salt holds moisture. so in some of these posts I read they have bubbles and I try to get the details most of the time its due to salt.

In talking to the outside source that did the testing for us, we found 2 things , one was moisture and the other was viscosity. in the viscosity the bubbles wouldn't rise to the top and burn off when we thinned the plastic out they did.

The first time the bubbles came it was pretty bad, it was like foam on the top, we haven't had that problem again, nothing even close to it.

Again its Nov. and some of my customers have said they got some bubbles and some have said they haven't again we go through this find the answer phase and again its a problem in the microwave.

I've gotten bubbles 3 times in the last batch.and the rest of the time I haven't. I have some customers that have gotten bubbles and most have not. go figure.

3 customers of mine have boughten over 60 gallons in the last 4 weeks from this same batch and they have no issues, only one uses a hot pot, the other 2 use a microwave.

this year starting in jan I didn't have any issued with any bubbles until the last batch. I think it was one customer who did and we narrowed it down to salt, as it was put in before the plastic was cooked.

if you do get bubbles the plastic sit for a min or 2 then reheat it,

try lowering your heat setting on the microwave.

bubbles in a hot pot. Think about it does it really matter? since most hot pots pour from the bottom and the bubbles rise to the top.

in an oven which best simulates a heat exchanger used by injection machines there are absolutely no bubbles ( with the exception of one time)

I talk to people all the time, the bubbles happen in calhoun, lure craft m-f and a few that aren't very popular, calhoun in the microwave happens more often than the other.

Calhoun sells thousands of gallons of plastic every week, mostly to major manufactures that make baits for cabelas, Bass proshops and a host of other companies. there are about 20 major injection companies that use calhoun, not to mention a ton of hand pour guys that use it buy the 55 gal drum every 2-3 days.

Yellowing,

that has everything to do with heat stabilizer not the plastic itself, Calhoun adds ton of heat stabilizer to the hand poured plastic because they know that it will sit in pots for a long time. EVERY plastic will turn yellow if sitting for great lengths of time, there is nothing you can do about it except add heat stabilizer to it and live with it.

One of my customers ( mold customer) uses another brand of plastic he goes through 5 gallons in 2 hours in big 5 gallon stay warm pots and has yellowing issues, he added stabilizer and it reduced the yellowing a lot, he is working on it to get it crystal clear and he is almost there.

If anyone has problems with it or questions feel free to call me, cause if I don't know about it , I can't figure out the problem with it, not to mention if it gets posted ( which I don't mind) there are a few that will talk just to hear themselves talk with out knowing the details of what the probelm really is.

Delw

[carolinamike]

Guys, sorry I haven't responded sooner. I have talked to Calhoun Plastics 4 weeks ago. In 4 weeks I have talked to them 3 times. I talked to Mike the first 2 times. After some of your suggestions, I finally talked to Chuck. Samples are on their way. I'm going to have to experiment with the samples in hot pots but the equipment is true industrial injection equipment. Or for over $30,000 it better be. I'm pretty well a veteran of the plastic business, I have just always been secretive about it. That's the reason I asked for you to keep us in your prayers and wish us good luck. Del, I appreciate all the information and I think with the new equipment, I don't have to worry about the foaming issue. I just really want to be sure that I am getting a product that will float. I found out over the years, that liquid plastisol is a product that will hold bubbles if you incorporate the air in the product. When stirring you must never let the vortex of the plastic around the stirrer reach the bottom, or you will incorporate air. I use a 55 gallon drum of plastic with a homemade agitator. It's a gear motor that runs slow and does a very good job without getting air bubbles in the plastic, but I let it run for an hour or so with LC formula 536. My mentor in the plastic industry has always steered me in the right direction and never charged a penny for his advice and is also the person that's building my machine and molds. He sent me all the information including parts and price lists, instructions, on how to build an injection pot. Again, no charge. I asked him what I owed him and knowing the business, he said when someone came to me needing help, to be sure and help them. I've been reading this forum for about a week now. It's nice to hear from people that know what I am talking about. So no more secrets. The responses to my question were very informative. Thank you all so much. Anything I can do to help someone else, let me know.

Mike

[Senkosam]

Del, If TU members or anyone else likes your service and plastic, all the power to ya. John (Bear Paw baits) dumped your plastic, bought my 5 gallons from M-F and was able to meet his order deadline. The quart he gave to me to test was junk and I dumped it. John will never go back to using Calhouns and there seems to be other pourers on this site that got burned the same way and because you gave them a hard time about how it was their fault the stuff bubbled and yellowed (ie. not stirring enough, too much humidity, etc.) Not many have posted on TU that they started reusing Calhouns or reported differences in brands, pro or con. I would be interested in an updated product comparison.

M-F, LC and Bob (Bob's Tackle Shack) offer good products and excellent service. Good enough for me! Dave, who use to own LC learned that the hard way and lost business. LC under Poor Boy management worked on the problem with their plastic, fixed it and offered free samples so people could regain confidence using it. (M-F does the same BTW) It worked! I buy 5 gallons at a time of regular and soft plastisol.

Sorry if you're ticked off, but the customer is sometimes right and knows when someone is blowing smoke ..... In fact, I didn't even mention Calhouns in my post, so why the rant? Just my 2 .

Mike, the more hardener, the less buoyant the plastic. Salt water plastic floats least; other softer plastic always floats without hardware (hook or jig) but will never be a buoyant as cyberflex plastic. Adding salt or a large quantity of sugar (clear flakes) always overcomes buoyancy. Bubbles in plastic may help keep a bait more buoyant, but look like hell and nothing can be done about it from the pourer end except to reheat the plastic once before pouring. The more you reheat plastic, the more softener is needed to retain the same softness and the more amber clear plastic turns IMO. Good luck.

[Delw]

Carolina Mike

I think I know who's system your running, your going to love it they make good stuff. we are seriously thinking of buying one. just for one product

Delw

Del, If TU members or anyone else likes your service and plastic, all the power to ya. John (Bear Paw baits) dumped your plastic, bought my 5 gallons from M-F and was able to meet his order deadline. The quart he gave to me to test was junk and I dumped it. John will never go back to using Calhouns and there seems to be other pourers on this site that got burned the same way and because you gave them a hard time about how it was their fault the stuff bubbled and yellowed (ie. not stirring enough, too much humidity, etc.) Not many have posted on TU that they started reusing Calhouns or reported differences in brands, pro or con. I would be interested in an updated product comparison.

M-F, LC and Bob (Bob's Tackle Shack) offer good products and excellent service. Good enough for me! Dave, who use to own LC learned that the hard way and lost business. LC under Poor Boy management worked on the problem with their plastic, fixed it and offered free samples so people could regain confidence using it. (M-F does the same BTW) It worked! I buy 5 gallons at a time of regular and soft plastisol.

Sorry if you're ticked off, but the customer is sometimes right and knows when someone is blowing smoke ..... In fact, I didn't even mention Calhouns in my post, so why the rant? Just my 2 .

Mike, the more hardener, the less buoyant the plastic. Salt water plastic floats least; other softer plastic always floats without hardware (hook or jig) but will never be a buoyant as cyberflex plastic. Adding salt or a large quantity of sugar (clear flakes) always overcomes buoyancy. Bubbles in plastic may help keep a bait more buoyant, but look like hell and nothing can be done about it from the pourer end except to reheat the plastic once before pouring. The more you reheat plastic, the more softener is needed to retain the same softness and the more amber clear plastic turns IMO. Good luck.

Frank

I never Burned anyone in my life.

John got bad plastic he was the one who informed me of it, he was taken care of, he gave you the plastic what makes you think if it was bad for him it would be good for you. I knew were this was going to end up once I found out you got it. if I remember right 3 other guys got it also 2 were on this board one wasn't ( not including John) and it wasn't ghost baits. the other guy who made a big stink about it claimed he poured thousands of baits with it,and they all turned yellow after a few weeks only after some one who was using calhoun asked about yellowing, however his situation was completely different and he was injecting it from 55 gal drums ( calhoun forgot to add uv protectors in his if I remember correctly) the funny part of all this is that the plastic wasn't pour able at all unless you added 40 % softener as the factory messed up and didn't add softener to the plastic

the point is you haven't used calhoun in over 3 years so you honestly don't know what your talking about but yet continue to hammer Calhoun.

Personally It don't bother me if someone has a problem with calhoun or any other plastic, with the feed back I get I goto calhoun and tell them the problems I am hearing and they hopefully listen and correct it.

The old owners of lure craft were always nice to everyone, he didnt burn anyone. you got a wide hair one day and started hammering them because you said you were ripped off from buying glitter. after it was explained to you by many members here on this board Including myself that they were selling it in Fluid OZ, not weight oz's you still hammered them.

on all there packaging they had sold by fluid oz, which BTW is what you can put into that size container. funny how you hammered them and started selling glitter your self. you pretty much destroyed them on there glitter sales for your own self interest.

BTW I had bought lots of glitter form them early on and never had problems and it was always exactly as described.

Delw

[alsworms]

Now why am I not suprised that this thread took a turn for the worst??

Let's end it now and I would recommend you look at the sticky thread above entitled "Best Plastic". There are some really interesting points there.