nickcalderone Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I just ruined a perfectly good POP 2 part mold! Man this thing poured great too! After several pours, I figured I would seal the mold to help preserve it and give the bait a little more shiny look. Well, I went to a hobby store and purchased a clear glaze made by Sculpy. I figured it would work great since i make my masters out of Sculpy, I could use it on them too. Anyway, I coated the POP mold with this stuff and allowed it to dry overnight... all was well...or so I thought. So, I went to pour a little while ago, and after it cooled and I went to seperate the halves, they were stuck! And I dont just mean hard to pull apart, I mean S T U C K !!!! So, after some time and a stream of words that my wife would not like, I managed to pry them apart. Well, the bait was ripped into gooey pieces and stuck to the details of the mold. I spent almost 2 hours scraping the plastic out of the intricate details of the mold with a toothpick! Alas to no avail though. The details are scratched up from the toothpick and the mold pours terribly now. SO, back to the old drawing board for me. This was a really cool bait...I worked really hard on it. Anyway, the moral of the story here is DON'T coat your mold with ANYTHING without first consulting the priceless knowledge of the members of this forum. Nick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Been there, you are not alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampBaits Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 We have all had good ideas go bad! Welcome to the club my friend!! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redg8r Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Isnt that glaze supposed to be cured in the oven? You couldve flipped the mold & baked or mic'ed the plastic back out of the mold but I still doubt it would be usable afterwards (if it sticks now) Shame, but hey, a good excuse to make a better one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted November 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 The directions say that it air cures...I made sure to let it dry for 24 HRs. I honestly think that the hot plastic (350 deg.) melted the glaze and fused the plastic to the mold. At least thats my theorie. Who knows...I am on my 3rd beer now...and my wife is giving me strange looks as I sadly stare at the ruined mold in my other hand. I am thinking about making a POP mold of my beer bottle, then pouring a really bright color, like chartreuse, then maybe I can sell it to one of the deep sea charter boat captains down here as a King Mackrell lure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redg8r Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 The directions say that it air cures... Ahh.... ok. I am on my 3rd beer now...and my wife is giving me strange looks as I sadly stare at the ruined mold in my other hand. I am thinking about making a POP mold of my beer bottle, then pouring a really bright color, like chartreuse, then maybe I can sell it to one of the deep sea charter boat captains down here as a King Mackrell lure...Lets see..... emotional attachment to your molds......... normal household items start looking like lure components..... yep your gonna fit in fine here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 My taxi driver wants a casting made of his face! So I am going to practise on him first, until I get the process right. Don't panic, I'm going to use alginate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nova Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Vodka; try resin; it'll last longer, lol. www.novalures.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojon Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Welcome to the club!The fun is just starting for you.All of us on this forum have had all kinds of bad experiences,that we overcame,with the help of the members,in this forum.Don't hesitate to ask questions,there is a lot of help here.Looking for better ways to do something is a good way to go,and don't get frustrated,If what you did would have worked,instead of failed,you could be passing on the information to help the rest of us with a better way.The members now know that what you tried didn't work,and that is helpful information.So I for one thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senkosam Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 The nice thing about using POP is that if you make a mistake or want to modify a bait, it's the cheapest material available and does a fair job regarding detail. I've never baked POP molds and always use the same wall board gloss sealer to coat the cavity. It dries in 20 minutes and is ready to pour in 1 hour max. Being water soluble, it thins easily and can be brushed into tiny grooves or part connections and cooled plastic releases fine as long as I oil the cavities (a disadvantage versus using aluminum. I don't like the flat matte surfaces of POP or silicone.) Show us some pics after you remake the mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted November 6, 2007 Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 Okay Senkosam, time to share a secret. You need to go to a store that sells industrial janitorial supplies. You want a clear floor wax that is made for use with a high speed buffer. These are usually polymer based formulas that are made to spread with the heat generated from the high rpms of the buffer. First thing, make sure your mold is completely dry, bone dry, all your trimming is done and the mold is the way you want it as if you are ready to pour your bait. Soak your mold in the wax overnight or for around 12 hours. Make sure it is completely submerged. There will be a lot of small air bubbles escaping from the mold which will kind of foam up on top, this is normal. The mold will be fine as long as it is completely submerged. When you take the mold out, blow off any excess wax. I usually use my breath, but if you wear glasses, make sure you take them off. You could still see some small bubbling on the mold itself. Stay with your mold a little bit, blow the bubbles (if any) off and again let the mold dry till it's completely dry, bone dry. After drying, I set a fan up and I start coating my molds with the wax. I use a Qtip to do this being sure to blow any excess wax out of the cavities of the mold. It's best if you cover the whole top of the mold. Set the mold in front of the fan on high speed with the air blowing directly on the mold. Check the mold after a couple of minutes to make sure that you have had no excess wax to drain in the cavity. If you do, blow it out. Repeat this step 10-15 times. With each coat you will notice that it is taking less and less wax to coat the mold. Use thin coats, you do not want a thick build up. Wait 30-45 minutes between coats, just make sure each coat is good and dry to the touch. I've got plaster molds that are 8 years old that I still use today and the neat thing about it is, the baits come out easily and they are shiny. As the molds heat up from the pouring, the wax adheres better and better and if it ever starts to lose its shine, 1 or 2 thin coats with a Qtip will usually bring back the shine for years. If you need any other info let me know. carolinamike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senkosam Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Thanks Mike, I consider trying your process. Oiling the cavity is time consuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 You'll find this process time consuming but it's a one time deal. Most of the time it takes me about a week to complete a run of molds. Also noticed on one of the other threads, you ask about artist plaster. Try dental plaster instead. You really have to tap the bubbles out of it and skim the foam off the top before you pour it over your prototype, but I do this no matter what plaster I'm using. I think there's 2 or 3 different formulas that dentists use, mainly for dentures. I use the one that is goldish in color. If you drop these molds on a hard surface they tend to chip instead of shatter like regular plaster. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senkosam Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Is there a site that sells dental plaster? Is it still POP? Sounds like it would be more like a plastic cement they use for fillings and expensive. A 20lb bag of POP cost me 8 bucks 3 yrs ago and it's not half gone. My copies have come out with reasonable detail and the lures catch fish. My 4.5" Beaver type 2-part mold produces nice lures and the side fins look as good as the prototype. Just got to oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 7, 2007 Report Share Posted November 7, 2007 Is it alginate that you are talking about, as used by dentists. If so, in the UK, many craft shops carry it, so it should be available in US. Coincidently, I actually have 2Kg on order, I should take delivery in a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carolinamike Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 The dental plaster is definitely more expensive. I think my dentist got me a 25 lb box for around $30. It does tend to set up a little faster than POP but if you use too much water it will still set. The trick is to do one mold at a time with either 1 or 2 cavities depending on the size of the bait. I use a plastic Solo cup and pour my molds one at a time. I use nothing to hold my baits to the bottom of my mold pan. So I get the consistency where it will hold down the bait but will still flow smoothly and not create any air pockets. This how I make a flat sided mold. My shop has concrete floors so it's worth the extra expense and time. If these molds are dropped they tend to just chip not shatter like POP does and some of these molds I have been using continuously for 8 years. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dutchman Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Go to www.clintsales.com/dentist.htm This stuff is a gypsum. Very similar to rock putty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallie Posted November 15, 2007 Report Share Posted November 15, 2007 The correct URL is http://www.clintsales.com/dental.htm. It is a USG product. I went to the site where I get my Ultracal 30 gypsum and found they came out with a sealer for the plaster. I didn't see dental products listed. Ultracal 30 = http://www.plaster.com/Ultracal.html Sealer = http://www.plaster.com/SurfaceSealer.html The sealer sound interesting. I plan to give them a call and get more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad S Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 I found a sealer mentioned for pop molds somewhere on this site a couple weeks ago that is inexpensive, easy to find and worked out great for me. It produces a smooth shiny finish with good detail, is non toxic, produces no fumes or bad odors and allows for very easy release of the finished plastic. It took a few coats with a little extra in spots to fill in air bubble voids etc. but the finished plastics came out beautiful. It's Elmer's Glue all, like you used as a kid in school . I used it 2:1 glue:water (as recommended) and applied it with a small paint brush. I've been trying to find the post again to thank the guy who wrote the tip. If you try it I'll bet you'll like it. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallie Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 Longhorn was the TU member who introduced us to coating POP molds with Elmer's Glueall. Take a look at this thread. http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7753&page=2 I have used the Elmer's on several molds since reading about it on this forum. It is easy to apply and good for maintaining detail but the shine has not been as good as that from an aluminum mold - at least not in my experience. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe S. Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 What kind of drying time are you looking at with the glue once applied? and when would you attempt to pour after that drying time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longhorn Posted November 20, 2007 Report Share Posted November 20, 2007 I use Elmer's Glue All not the Elmer's School glue. It may be fine just haven't tried it. It dries rather quickly and can be poured on as soon as it's dry. If your painting a mold and don't use too much glue it will dry within 15 minutes. If you're flooding a mold the sides will dry first and some glue mix will settle to the bottom and take a little longer to dry. I usually try to catch this and remove the excess with light air pressure or a small paint brush. When I'm brushing a mold I brush some on a small area on the top and when it's dry then I assume the rest is also. If you pour too soon it's not big deal...the bait will come out with a little glue on it and the mold won't be hurt. As impatient as I am I've done this several times. Also a hair dryer speeds the drying if you're really in a hurry. Also on the shine issue..the more coats the shinier the baits. You can use the glue full strength also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe S. Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I painted a two piece yesterday, first coat I cut to fill in the pours then I used full strength for the final two coats. I thought it was dry as it felt completely dry and banded the pieces together to take home, when I took them apart last night they were gooey and slighlty stuck together. I kept them separated overnight and they were dry this morning, I'm going to put them back together and see if it has the same issue again, not sure if there might be some kind of reaction with two sides of something touching maybe it trys to reglue itself??? Not sure if that's possible, maybe they just weren't completely dry ,but they sat for a few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad S Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 Joe Thanks for the warning. I've only done one mold with Elmer's so far and after I read your post I checked and I had only used it on the concave parts that don't normally touch. It will be interesting to find out what the final verdict is. Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe S. Posted November 23, 2007 Report Share Posted November 23, 2007 Well that night I went home and put one of the molds back together and banded it tight, I came home 4 hours later and the glue was very tacky again to where I could smear it and peel some off And this was a good 24 hours after I sealed them, I'm not sure why it's doing this, any one have any ideas? I'm using the elmers glue all, I assume it's having a reaction with being butted up against the other half with glue and trying to reglue itself??? I'm going to try pouring them this afternoon, I have had them separated again since wednesday night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
