In a pinch

[rockylinx]

Hello All,

I'm in a desperate situation. A buddy of mine is a marketing genius. He's also my fishing partner we've kayaked for the last 3 years together. About 6 months ago I came up with an Idea for a new bait, with the help of you guys.

He and I exclusively fish my bait. We've caught about 12 different saltwater species with my design. Since then Ive come up with about 4 unique designs to fish our water type.

My problem: People in marketing like to network, I have a very large order to fill 5000 baits. Somehow he found the right person to talk to now im screwed. I enjoy pouring but 5000- I'm more of a designer than pourer and new to the sport of pouring. The guy wants the first 5000 when im set up, then another 5000. He has a check waiting for half of the first 5000

Im thinking of outsourcing my work to Mexico. Any Help would be appreciated Help Help with big project.

Domestic or foreign Im willing to do anything

Pete

[Delw]

While I hate to see anything outsourced to mexico there is a guy in ca that owns a place down there. I have his info somewhere he was on the board here as well. His name is Scott. ( someone will remember his full name) I talked to him a few weeks ago sc baits or something like that. He makes all the Baby "E" products for california customs. Yes they are made in mexico.

But in all honesty give American companies a shot, this outsourcing to other countries in MY opinion is BS.

I will help you in any way shape or form to keep the job in the US. most of the big pourers I know are pretty busy, but I am sure someone can find someone to make you happy.

you can call me on the phone at the shop anytime or send me an email molds@del-mart.com

I don't know if injection pouring or hand pouring however, there is a guy in Utah that has a zorn machine on this board and a guy in idaho as well.

I know a few guys with a lot of hand pouring set ups using 5 gals tanks with mixers as well.

Keep it made in America and be proud of it.

Delw

Edit: scott is with SR platics , he went by SR plastics on this board and still reads it.

Hello All,

I'm in a desperate situation. A buddy of mine is a marketing genius. He's also my fishing partner we've kayaked for the last 3 years together. About 6 months ago I came up with an Idea for a new bait, with the help of you guys.

He and I exclusively fish my bait. We've caught about 12 different saltwater species with my design. Since then Ive come up with about 4 unique designs to fish our water type.

My problem: People in marketing like to network, I have a very large order to fill 5000 baits. Somehow he found the right person to talk to now im screwed. I enjoy pouring but 5000- I'm more of a designer than pourer and new to the sport of pouring. The guy wants the first 5000 when im set up, then another 5000. He has a check waiting for half of the first 5000

Im thinking of outsourcing my work to Mexico. Any Help would be appreciated Help Help with big project.

Domestic or foreign Im willing to do anything

Pete

[alsworms]

Sadly though......keeping it in the U.S. is sometimes impossible nowadays. A guy in Mexico can pour those baits for pennies on the dollar, although now I KNOW I'd never buy a Baby E swimbait because of the high mark up. What do they sell those little things for now.......10 bucks a piece?? How much do you think it costs to make one?? And I know time is figured in, but it sure doesn't take NEAR the time to make a Baby E as it does some of these Basstrix type baits!

[SwampBaits]

Is it an injection pour, or a hand pour? Also realize the price of additional molds. You wouldn't want someone pouring an order of 5000 when you only have 5 cavities to pour too.

[rr316]

I would never outsource anything to any other country, I could care less about pennies on the dollar, you get what you pay for, and Americans are now GETTING what they payed for. Years of outsourcing everything to whatever country has the cheapest slave labor leads to a weak dollar and a wrotten economy... just my 2 cents

[alsworms]

I would never outsource anything to any other country, I could care less about pennies on the dollar, you get what you pay for, and Americans are now GETTING what they payed for. Years of outsourcing everything to whatever country has the cheapest slave labor leads to a weak dollar and a wrotten economy... just my 2 cents

You are definitely right and just to clarify......I am in no way for outsourcing. I'm just saying that when some guys are making 10's of thousands of any single bait each month, sometimes it's hard not to. It would be cool if some of the U.S. hand-pour guys had more time on their hands to take on large jobs like that.

[rockylinx]

Thank You,

You guys are awesome, Quick response

Here's the deal -I'm competing with Big Hammer and Fish Trap that puts me a cap on my bait at $.50 per piece retail unless we can come up with a marketing box Idea like the banjo minnow. I don't know of anyone that would pour my bait for that cheap. Here is my break down .10c material .10c pouring cost with a .05c variable in either direction. Thats retail I really don't know if its worth it ??

I completely stand behind my design. My bait is way better that the above mentioned bait

Please help with input

[SwampBaits]

You don't have to lower your prices based on the two said company's you're competing with. If you have a nicer finished product, then people will pay more for your baits.

Also...curious... How many different colors do you want to offer? The fewer the colors, the cheaper the runs (for the most part).

[SwampBaits]

Sadly though......keeping it in the U.S. is sometimes impossible nowadays. A guy in Mexico can pour those baits for pennies on the dollar, although now I KNOW I'd never buy a Baby E swimbait because of the high mark up. What do they sell those little things for now.......10 bucks a piece?? How much do you think it costs to make one?? And I know time is figured in, but it sure doesn't take NEAR the time to make a Baby E as it does some of these Basstrix type baits!

Those are a little over priced. The originals really don't have very nice detail and there are very few eye grabbing colors. I suppose they have to pay the help though, and pay for supplies to be shipped south, then the finished product back north.

It may be cheaper but it still adds up.

[alsworms]

Those are a little over priced. The originals really don't have very nice detail and there are very few eye grabbing colors. I suppose they have to pay the help though, and pay for supplies to be shipped south, then the finished product back north.

It may be cheaper but it still adds up.

Again......I couldn't agree more. The swimbaits you're making look a TON better than the Baby E. I have also seen some dynamite pours from the likes of Jim from Ghost Baits, Javier from Bass8baits, and Nil (Nova) can turn heads with the best of 'em too!

Just my opinion, but I think what it comes down to is who started the frenzy to begin with. The Baby E won a few big time tournaments, so there ya go.

[Delw]

I have customers that were getting products made in China and Mexico.

the baits came out like garbage after a few months, quaility sucked, shipping was terrible etc etc . sure they were cheap but you get what you pay for.

we made them new molds( which were in the high thousands), Helped them were we could with there process and they are pouring the baits local. they have 100% control on everything. They also have less of a headach and all baits are the same and look professionaly done. when one customer is competely set up he will have over 30k into the tools ( molds and pouring pots, agetators etc) some of these customers are selling baits in tacklewarehouse, bassproshops and cabelas by the thousands

you sell your baits at market price or a little more. even if it cost pennies to make. The last thing I would ever do is tell someone there baits are over priced, most guys know in business that you have to make money in order to make baits if you don't you might as well give them away. Just because it cost .50 cents to make doesnt mean that people should sell them for less than the going rate. thats pure suiside (sp)

the time it takes for some of these guys to pour some of there baits like swampbait, BASS8, Ghost baits Nova and a few others they are not getting anywere near what there baits really worth. it doesnt make any difference if there bait cost .50 cent in supplies time is also a key factor.

you will also never get pours like this from mexico or china nothing even close. I have a ton of chinese and mexico poured baits from these companys.

the main thing in setting up to make money on it is to spend the money on the tooling nessary.Yes its expensive but its a tool good tools are expensive and there is a reason for it.

on the down side the chinese and mexican baits while they look like crap, work just as good as the ones poured in the USA, but you have to remember your catching the fishermen not the fish. thats why pretty colors sell. a perfect example is robo worm they sell millions of baits just on looks alone, same with bass trix and some other companies.

take the guys who make knock off baby "E" against the real baby "E" color for color they are going to catch the same amount of fish ones not any better than any of them to the fish. but the fishermen sees a color they feel comfortable with or something that looks really pretty and buys it, all they have to do is catch one 3-4lb fish or even a bunch of 1's and 2's and they are hooked for life.

again robo worm, if they sold a bluefleck one color worm I am bettig they wouldnt sell hardley a thing, however they take blue fleck and add a blood line some red glitter and its now a work of art.

also .10 for the pouring part I think is a little low, that would be like 600 baits an hour if you use 60 bucks and hour( if my math is correct). that right there is some serious tooling cost and pouring equipment cost to handle that amount at that rate.

plus you need to include package time and taking them out of the mold.

Delw

[Mattlures]

You need to devolope a system. 5000 baits from one piece molds wouldnt be very hard to do. Make about 50 molds and do 10 runs in a day. That would probably take 6-8hrs for 1 person. That would take you 10 working days to complete the order. It would be faster with another person or more molds.

GET TO WORK!

[rockylinx]

Swamp,

I'm looking at 5 different laminate colors

In the saltwater arena swim baits are easily destroyed due to toothy fish (small barracuda,mackerel) I try to find bait balls (school of small fish) when you locate the ball, you have a heavy top layer of predatory fish feeding on the surface. You want to get your bait down ASAP to the target fish on the bottom. The lures are not detailed due to the fact there disposable. An average Cuda can be caught twice on the competitors bait. I could go through about 6 Cuda's due to the hardness of plastic I pour . I pour them hard because the design is what makes them swim.

Paying top dollar is out of the question.

The light bulb just went off I need to target my bait for freshwater bass not salt water bass.

Serous question Does anyone know of any good freshwater lakes in Southern California??

Pete

[rockylinx]

Im confused my bait is designed to catch fish, I don't know how to catch fishermen. Im also lost on the definition of detail I don't know what to add to make the detail better.The bait is weighted with a triangle shad head just like a big hammer bait so it doesn't have eyes, maybe scales?? dorsal fin is out of the question due to hook location Maybe an anal fin or pectoral fins???

Del what thickness should the fins be to easily pour with a harder saltwater plastic. I want to keep my plastic hard due to the fact its a major selling point when it comes to durability, I feel that im going to walk a fine line with the detail aspect and the hardness aspect

Thanks Pete

[braveviper]

the saltwater market is bigger.

[Delw]

Im confused my bait is designed to catch fish, I don't know how to catch fishermen. Im also lost on the definition of detail I don't know what to add to make the detail better.The bait is weighted with a triangle shad head just like a big hammer bait so it doesn't have eyes, maybe scales?? dorsal fin is out of the question due to hook location Maybe an anal fin or pectoral fins???

Del what thickness should the fins be to easily pour with a harder saltwater plastic. I want to keep my plastic hard due to the fact its a major selling point when it comes to durability, I feel that im going to walk a fine line with the detail aspect and the hardness aspect

Thanks Pete

Sometimes adding detail is just too much in some baits. detail only works on some baits as far as looks on other baits its too much. ( my opiion anyhow)

wether it catches fish or not ( we all make baits to catch fish), the fish are not the ones with the cash and don't goto the store.

you have to find a way to catch the fishermen,

like offering colors that they don't see, Completely different bait( which from your description sounds like you have) etc.

the triangle lead heads you can add eyes to, if your suppling them with the lead head add eye's to it that way it will stand out more than others. As most lead heads I have seen don't add eyes.

[GB GONE]

the saltwater market is bigger.

While you would think that was the case, it is not. The freshwater fishing market is larger than golf, baseball, football, tennis, hunting, etc COMBINED!!

I have the marketing studies that have been done but there is no comparison between saltwater and freshwater. In a way it makes sense though as most of the country has no access to saltwater.

I am with Matt on this one. Make some molds and get to pouring. I have poured a 1000 bait order out of a 1 cavity mold in the beginning. You have to start somewhere. If you job it out now, you are a slave to that company. If they add something to it (ie lead on all the toys, antifreeze in toothpaste) and you don't know it, you may be liable for some serious jack!!!!

Wish I could help out as I love these kind of deals and would help you pour them just to keep the business here in the US.

PS Have you tried Kim at Lurecraft? If you have to send them somewhere, they will do them for you!!

Jim

[braveviper]

Ok maybe your right about that,i think what i meant to say is that the striped bass market is bigger.Stripers live in both fresh and salt water.

[GB GONE]

I'd look at going for both markets if the bait can be made with different plastic. Duel appeal would be awesome!!!

I used to have the guys number that does all of Bassassin's baits. I'll look back through my stuff for it as they pour a lot of plastic and lead.

Jim

[Delw]

Ok maybe your right about that,i think what i meant to say is that the striped bass market is bigger.Stripers live in both fresh and salt water.

I think it has a lot to do with what part of the states you are in, stripers are big business in maine and some other states,

redfish in the gulf and calico bass and cuda in san diego salmon and trout in the northwest and pike and muskies in minn. and Michigan

[rockylinx]

Well Im thinking of making a bunch of molds and start pouting these baits myself

I can hand pour them, so At least thats not an issue.

My next question is what do i need to pour them myself?? A 8oz pirex cup isn't going to do it. I'm thinking of a presto pot from Ozarks tackle. Ive seen a lot of treads about that issue, but no one ever followed with a review of how do they work,So do they work good??

I found a thread from a gentleman that had a harbor freight adjustable RPM drill on a drill stand and a mixer made of angle Iron is this a good setup??

Pete

[Delw]

Well Im thinking of making a bunch of molds and start pouting these baits myself

I can hand pour them, so At least thats not an issue.

My next question is what do i need to pour them myself?? A 8oz pirex cup isn't going to do it. I'm thinking of a presto pot from Ozarks tackle. Ive seen a lot of treads about that issue, but no one ever followed with a review of how do they work,So do they work good??

I found a thread from a gentleman that had a harbor freight adjustable RPM drill on a drill stand and a mixer made of angle Iron is this a good setup??

Pete

if your going to pour that amount of baits and probally have to keep up with big orders Sta-warm, or the new one someone was talking about a while ago. those little fryers just wont cut it and they will burn plastic over time due to there heating elements, plus you have to make mixers for them. figure 600-2000 for each pot depending on how big you want/need

[Richard Prager]

You need to devolope a system. 5000 baits from one piece molds wouldnt be very hard to do. Make about 50 molds and do 10 runs in a day. That would probably take 6-8hrs for 1 person. That would take you 10 working days to complete the order. It would be faster with another person or more molds.

GET TO WORK!

I like Matt's idea. I made a pouring pot from a Presto. It might work fine for others, but it isn't for me. By the time I got it going right, I could have had the order finished. I like my pyrex! Start pouring!

[GB GONE]

Yeah, get yourself (3) 2 cup Anchor cups and get rolling.

I have tried a lot of stuff but stumbled on to something that all can use if you are a pyrex/anchor guy.

Go to Walmart and look in the coffee section for the coffee cup warmers they have. The warmers are $2.00 each and will end your plastic cooling headaches!!! I used mine last night in 40 degree shed temp (trial time and then I turned the heat on). My cup stayed "pourable" for at least double the normal time. I also tested a cup without any color to see how the plastic reacted as far as burning or yellowing from the heat. Results were perfect as the plastic maintained its clear color for as long as I needed it to.

My test was on 2 cups of plastic. When I used 1 cup, I had even more time.

These little things are real stable and take up very little counter space. Heck for $2, you can hardly go wrong!!!

Jim

[Richard Prager]

Great idea! Are these electric?