Mags Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Anybody know how to modify a Manns 30+ to get it deeper. I know they shave the lip, but I'm unsure exactly how they do it. I think this is still a popular lure with the Tennessee bass anglers. I have heard claims that with modification it will hit 30 feet. Precision Casting says 24 feet on a 60 foot cast with 10 pound line. I would think another 6 feet in depth would be almost impossible casting. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 I assume that you mean 60yds! Any tweaks are not going to get you much more depth. If you are getting 24ft, you should be well happy with that. Lure depth has been discussed a few times here on TU and I cannot remember anyone claiming much more than 20ft off a cast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladesandbaits Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 I Modify Stretch 20's quite a bit for fishermen in my area. It's an old school modication but works well. Drill a hole about 3/4 of an inch back from the diving bill on the under side and insert a 3/16 ounce bullet wieght point first. The wieght needs to be just in front of the front hook hanger. Make sure you epoxy the wieght in and seal over it well. This modification will get a Stretch 20 down to 25 or 28 feet on 10 pound Flourocarbin. Will work just as well on a 30. Regards, Blades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsessions Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 how far do you insert the weight? before epoxying it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjack Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 You can do a similar mod as B&B on the 30, get a 21/64" drill bit and some 0 buckshot drill a hole in the bottom of the lip push the shot in hit it with epoxy and your bait will get deeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted December 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Blades. Thanks. That is just the type of advice I was looking for. I know the afficiandos with this bait also shave the lip. This is a bait that doesn't get whole lot of press, but is used in parts of the country where guys do a lot of deep cranking. A BASS Mega Bucks at Douglas was won by Clunn years back. His key bait was the Manns 30+. I remember him commenting that before he got to Douglas he didn't even own one. Pretty interesting, since this guy won most of his millions on cranks. Vodkaman, I did mean 60 feet. The books Precision Casting and Precision Trolling has the dive curves for many of the popular crankbaits. According to the book the Manns 30+ will get to 24 feet on a 60 foot cast with 10 pound line. The other deep diver that really gets to 20+ feet is the Luhr Jensen 3/4 ounce Hot Lips Express. 22 feet on a 60 foot cast. A 60 foot cast for normal casting gear is a good long one, but with the wind at your back, a 7 foot rod and some rocket fuel or hot sauce lube you can make these length casts, and longer, pretty consistently. Both lures will work you out, because they pull so hard, but they also catch some giant fish that live where they don't see a whole lot of crankbaits. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted December 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 The tourney was May 2001. Post spawn. Here were the top four patterns. Two of the top three were using the 30+. 1st - Rick Clunn - Used a carolina rig (watermelon/red flake worm) on some of the holes but caught his bigger fish on a hand painted Manns 30+ crankbait (shad colored with purple back). These baits are doctored so they go deeper (35 feet?). Weighted and file bill. Also used a DD-22 (chartreuse/blue back) to catch many fish, but the 30+ produced the biggest fish. Using 10 pound test flourocarbon for his cranking. Key spot was fishing a old creek channel bluff that began near a spawning a large spawning flat and extended well into the lake where it made a sweeping turn. This made a ledge that went way out into the lake. Located in Flat Creek. 2nd -Dean Rojas - Qualifying rounds caught them flipping up the French River, cranking the main lake and C-rigging. In the finals caught them on a crankbait early and then used a tube in the backs of the creeks around isolated cover when the sun got high. Concentrated on the main lake points and steep banks with the crankbait. Used a stop and go retrieve (DD22. Bagleys B2 and DLN in Blue/Chartreuse). 3rd - Mark Davis - Used a Manns 30+ (pearl/black back) that was modified with a filed down bill. Also used a C-rig and Strike King Series 6 crankbait. Targeted long points that dropped off into deep water. Other productive spots included creek channel drops located in the back of coves. 4th - Jay Yelas - Qualifying rounds fished way up the Nolichucky and French Rivers. Concentrated in Flat Creek on main creek points, especially those points located near a channel swing. The best points featured a sharp drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 I'm no expert, but I found this for ya: http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache:wu4CsEaxhwwJ:www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/fishing/article/0,13199,1078410,00.html+shave+lip+mann%27s+30%2B+lure&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us Clemmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Mags, of course your right, I didn't think that one through properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quick20xd Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 One East Tennessee Modification to weight a 30+ is to add lead to the bill. By drilling a 3/16" hole (or muitiple holes) partially through the top of the bill between the line tie and the lure body. These holes are filled flush with lead and epoxied over to seal. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 JMHO but stories about shaving the lip on a 24 ft diver to get it to go to 30 ft don't ring true. An extra 6" to 12" I'll believe. An extra 6 ft just from shaving the lip? No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stringjam Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Or you could just get a Competition Cedars 4500LR and you'll have a crankbait that will bust 20 feet with MUCH less resistance than the Mann's bait (or the LJ 3/4 Hot Lips). Of course, that wouldn't matter if it didn't catch fish once it got there, but believe me, they do.... (upper 2 cranks) I'm trying out some lures from this forum's own Marty Burns, however, that I think are definitely going to give it a run this year for my "favorite" spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quick20xd Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Nice looking baits SJ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMAXX Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Anybody know how to modify a Manns 30+ to get it deeper. I know they shave the lip, but I'm unsure exactly how they do it. I think this is still a popular lure with the Tennessee bass anglers. I have heard claims that with modification it will hit 30 feet. Precision Casting says 24 feet on a 60 foot cast with 10 pound line. I would think another 6 feet in depth would be almost impossible casting. Steve Steve I think your figure is a little deep from my experience throwin a 30+, so I checked my copy of precision casting thinkin maybe I had missed something they list the 30+ hitting 19' on a 70' cast with 10lb line, I'm kind inline with Bob short of making the bait sink 30' might be a stretch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Even if you start the bait past 30', it will swim up to its own maximum depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike-A-Pike Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Oooch. All the numbers are interesting, but is the level of effort really worth it? A day on the water can last up to 14 hours. Casting a distance of 70', how fast do you have to burn it in to reach 30' of depth. How far into the retrieve before the lure gets down to 30’ and how long will it before it comes back to surface? It almost seems like trolling with a cannon ball weight would be the best way to keep a bait at 30’. By putting the pole in a rod holder, you’ll have both hands free for beer and a brat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Theory tells me that it swims down in an arc, probably hyperbolic and then rises in a straight slope. So the max depth is only briefly achieved. I could be wrong but their is an explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawjacker Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 quick20xd is right the best way to get a 30plus to its maximum depth and stay there for any amount of time is to weight it by drilling a hole between the line tie and the nose and inserting lead in it shaving the lip helps but it will only give you around a foot more depth take this from someone who lives near douglas and makes many trips to it on a regular basis sometimes thats the only way to catch fish on douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 23, 2007 Report Share Posted December 23, 2007 Not a straight slope. What does it matter anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 http://www.walleyecentral.com/romanack.shtml Here's the website for Mark Romanack's book "Precision Casting". The data is getting old now since publication in 2000 but it's very interesting. I emailed to find out if there would be an update edition and he said "doubtful" but they might try adding dive tables for newer crankbaits to the website. Guess they sell alot more copies of Precision Trolling. Anyway, a couple of valuable data sets: First, how fast you reel doesn't change how deep it goes. If anything, there's a slight tendency for crankbaits to swim deeper on a slow steady retrieve than any other. Second, deep divers run alot shallower than most guys think and they get to their max depth alot closer to the boat, for a much shorter time than most think they do. A Mann's +30 runs 19 ft deep on a fairly long 70 ft cast on 10 lb mono. You can cast 100 ft and you use 8 lb line? OK, now it's 22.5 ft max. And those max depths only happen from 30 ft to 12 ft away from the boat. The +30 is not an aberration. All tested deep divers had very similar dive curve shapes. If you want deeper, the best thing I know to do is use a long rod, a slick casting reel and 4-6 lb diameter (10-14 lb test) superline. Adding an inline weight in front of the bait can also work, as can using a crankbait on a Carolina rig. Whatever you do, it takes time and experimentation on the water to get it dialed in and most guys won't put in the effort. Most times, I'll just go to a spoon or heavy jig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMAXX Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Just for sake of conversation heres the dive curve and related info:) kind of small...sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted December 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Thanks guys. I took a second look at my book and I have Precision Trolling, not Precision Casting and trolling my numbers were correct. What does Precision Casting say about the Luhr Jensen 3/4 ounce Hot Lips Express with 10 pound line? I live near Lake Travis, which has a lot of deep ledges (20-30 feet). I catch a lot of fish on drop shot, C-rig etc. Catching a limit is usually not a problem but getting a kicker fish is difficult. I have been experimenting with big deep diving cranks this year and the results have been very good with the bigger fish. Few people will throw these things all day long Stringjam, are those Poes? Oh, I have tried 8 pound line and have had poor results. Can we say "rocket launch" when the line snapped. Perhaps someone could recommend a good 8 pound cranking line. Ten pound has been the lower limit for me. A frend of mine uses 8 pound P-line, but I think the diameter is about the same as most companies 10. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mags Posted December 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Found the Poes. Will give them a try. http://www.usbass-tn.com/417450.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike-A-Pike Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 I'm not sure I totally understand why a crankbait that can dive 30+ feet is a good thing, but here is a design idea I'm work on. Hope to start tank testing before new years:o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted December 24, 2007 Report Share Posted December 24, 2007 Luhr Jensen Hot Lips Express 3/4 oz = 19.5 ft on 70 ft cast with 10 lb line, 22 ft if you can cast 100 ft. 20.5 ft on a 70 ft cast with 8 lb line, 23 ft if you can cast 100 ft. It's the deepest stock crankbait in Precision Casting. I like 10 lb Izor Line XXX. I'd also try Power Pro 15 lb or Fireline 14 lb - both are about 6 lb diameter, will get down a couple of extra ft and add sensitivity. 10 lb fluorocarbon also has very thin diameter and better sensitivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
