njrfishing Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 First off thanks to all for the info on pop molds I've spent several hours reading the info, unfortunatly some of the older threads lost the pictures including some of the tutorials. What I'm trying to make first is a clay sample of the bait that I will use to make into the pop mold(I'm trying to make this bait from a drawing. I made it similar to a bait a friend had about 10 years ago that he said its not pruduced any more).I'm having a problem completing the details on the clay mold, I tried to sanding it when it was dry,and use some tools to try and carve it into shape but it all ways breaks on me. Is it better to put all the details while the clay is soft? Is there any other way to make this clay sample? How many others here have done this? Its been frustrating trying to make this bait from scratch.Any tips would greatly help??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 I tried making a clay master once. I found it extremely difficult to control the shape, particularly maintaining symmetry. It is OK for making worms and simple rolled shapes. Also, clay can give problems when removing from the PoP, if the section is too thin. I am currently using balsa. True, balsa is delicate and can be prone to break when removing from the PoP. I counter this by sealing well with 50/50 PVA (elmers). This adds rigidity, in addition to a polyester resin top coat. If your master has legs, pincers etc, there is nothing wrong with making your master from several materials, each more suitable for the individual components of the lure. More experienced members could help you more if you were to post a pic of the pattern that you are trying to make. If you don't want to spill the beans, then a more graphic explanation of the shape or nature of the components of the lure, eg fat body, thin tail, 3mm dia legs etc. Also, if the initial clay pattern is not 100% correct to your design, car filler can be added and sanded using a dremel. Two part car filler is very convenient for this purpose, as it hardens very fast and is very strong, much stronger than the clay. Post some pics and let the members help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampBaits Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 When I make clay masters, I put them in the Plastic wet. I don't let the clay harden. Then just pick the clay out of the plaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubinator Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 I use carving wax, someone on TU just posted some pictures in the last week or two and they were using canning wax and a pocket knife to carve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 I just use plasticine for temporary masters (see the spider shown on 'hairy worm' thread). Quick, cheap, easy to work and re-usable. Including the sprue and locator depressions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 I use clay all of the time to make my masters...so far, I have had really good luck with Sculpy. I have tried other brands, but they tend to crack or show signs of seperation. It is much easier to add the details while the clay is moist in my opinion. You can't carve clay too well after it is baked. The trick to working with clay, is to moisten your fingers slightly and work the clay into intricate shapes by SMOOTHING it...If you try to force it or bend it, IT WILL CRACK on you. If you are getting stretch marks or seperation cracks, dab a drop of water there and SMOOTH it out. (DO NOT TRY TO MOLD IT THERE) You just have to have a light touch when forming small details. I also use sculpting tools (purchased at any hobby store) and an exacto knife. Place your finished master on WAX paper so it won't stick until you are ready to bake it. Do you have any pics of your bait that you could post? I may be able to give you a few pointers if you want me to. I have also had much better luck with RTV silicone vs. P.O.P., but it is much more expensive. The RTV gives a very smooth, shiny finish that rivals aluminum mold finishes. If I have time tonight, I will try to post a few pics. Good luck! And let us know how it turns out! Nick:yay: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted December 28, 2007 Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Here are some pics for ya. Sorry about the poor quality and color...but it's the only digital I have. The P.O.P. mold is one that I made from a clay master. The RTV mold is also another that I made from a sculpted clay master. I also have a couple of old clay prototypes that I took pics of. The P.O.P. mold that I made for them was damaged by a sealer that I tried to use...but I will make one from RTV when I have time...I will post pics of that also. As you can see, the product of the P.O.P. mold is the pumpkin pepper craw but it has a rather dull finish. The other craw is from the RTV mold...notice how shiny and smooth the finish is...and it is even covered in dust from sitting in my workshop. Anyway, I hope this helps...good luck with your prototypes. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njrfishing Posted December 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2007 Thanks for the info, I spent some more time with the clay mold last night and again was getting frusterated but I think I'll try working on smaller sections and putting them together to complete what I need for my sample.The only problem now is to find some time so I can complete it and try to get some pictures on here. Thanks again for all your help,(practice makes perfect),should have payed more attention in art class. Back to the drawing boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njrfishing Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 I finally had a chance to take some pictures of the clay molds i'm working on,unfortunatlly it broke when I tried to sand it to shape next time I will try to shape it when it's still soft.I hope these come through ok. The paddle tail is 6inch and the small one is about 2inch. Also I have a question? can you pour your plastic into or onto someting thats made of clay? will it take the heat of the plastic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Prager Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 You should be able to pour hot plastic in clay that has be high fired and glazed. Also, if you are using clay for your model and you want to put it aside for the next day, lay some strips of wet paper towel directly on the clay. Then, lay a plastic bag over it. It might even be easier to work with when it firms up a bit. Be careful when letting the clay dry. It will tend to crack if it dries too fast. Allow about 15% for shrinkage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted January 7, 2008 Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 I finally had a chance to take some pictures of the clay molds i'm working on,unfortunatlly it broke when I tried to sand it to shape next time I will try to shape it when it's still soft.I hope these come through ok. The paddle tail is 6inch and the small one is about 2inch.Also I have a question? can you pour your plastic into or onto someting thats made of clay? will it take the heat of the plastic? Nice design. The trick to the segmented shape is to run a wire through the entire body lengthwise so that it helps support it and adds rigidity. This will ease the stress on it when you pick it up or sand it. I think 152nd answered your question...but yes, you can pour plastic into and onto clay as long as it has been heat tempered. If you don't mind me asking, are you trying to make a mold from clay? Let me know... Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njrfishing Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 I was thinking of modifying a silicone mold I have by filling the areas with clay that I didn't want the plastic to flow into but I haven't had a chance to try it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickcalderone Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 That will work...I do that on my craw molds to pour the claws a different color from the body. I don't use regular clay for this though. I use a foam like clay that stays soft so that I can easily remove it from the mold. I think regular clay would harden in the mold because of the heat from the plastic. It might be difficult removing the clay if you needed to. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
