Kribman Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 What is the proportion of epoxy hard coat to alcohol or acetone for your hardbaits and how many layers do you apply? Should i place them under a heat lamp after I coat them? any other tricks or tips to get a clean and hard finish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Man that sounds like a question for Vodkaman... Ask him.. He will have an exact formula... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 There is no reason to thin either Devcon or Etex before applying. I think this idea got started for folks coating molds that had small crevices in which the clear needing thinning. RM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kribman Posted January 28, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 does heating the coat help it cure harder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 28, 2008 Report Share Posted January 28, 2008 Heat can cure faster (marginally), but not harder. It can also cause air in the bait's wood to expand and appear as bubbles in the topcoat if too much heat is applied. I'm not in favor of thinning Devcon either but in winter when temps in my house are below 70 degrees, I do it so I can get 2 baits brushed before it becomes too thick. When I thin, I use denatured alcohol because it won't flash out of the epoxy as fast as acetone or lacquer thinner. After mixing the epoxy, dip your brush in the solvent and drop a few (3-4) drops into the mix for 2 baits, then stir. That's usually enough. I can't say that I've noticed any weakness in the cured coating, except that it makes a thinner film than straight Devcon. Many epoxies come from the factory with solvent in them - including Envirotex Lite, Flexcoat and similar "table top" and "rod epoxies". Remember to rotate your baits longer when using thinned epoxy. I spin straight Devcon for at least an hour, thinned Devcon for 2-3 hrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kribman Posted January 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2008 I am wondering all this, because I have coated a few lures and I tried to see how hard they were, and I could make a dent in the finish with my nail. I was thinking this could be a number of problem... 1. My local Home Depot does not sell Etex or Devcon, only a knock of pour on epoxy finisher... 2. I am not putting on enough layers... 3. I do not have a lure turner to make sure there is very even distribution. Are these necessary? 4. Is the squeeze bottle 2ton or 5 min epoxies better than the pour on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Kribman. I have the same problem. Devcon is not available in my local store and so I tried other brands of epoxy. They are all slightly different in their hardened properties. If you can dig your nail in, then look on the bright side, the finish won't crack or shatter when it hits the rocks. It may even be useful against the teeth. If you are not selling the lures, use it and keep looking for the devcon, or try the dick Nites that everyone raves about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 You can buy Envirotex Lite (aka Etex) at Michael's Hobby Shops. It is a table top pour-on epoxy finish. The Devcon Two Ton is sold at Walmarts, in a double syringe. If you clearcoat your baits and hang them up to cure, I recommend going with straight unthinned Devcon Two Ton. It cures faster than Etex and is thicker, so it tends to sag less. To "rotate" the bait, put a wire hanger on both ends and switch ends every few minutes for the first 30 minutes or so. Epoxy has to be measured properly and mixed thoroughly for it to cure to a hard finish It takes several days of curing to attain real hardness, and as long as a week to final cure. You should be able to handle a Devcon coated bait in about 8 hrs without leaving fingerprints. Guys being guys, we want to mess with the bait but just let the dang thing hang there for a day. If you need a second coat of Devcon to repair fisheyes or voids, you can brush on another full coat anytime after the first 2 hours. If you have bubbles, let it fully cure, sand them out and recoat after 24 hrs. You do not need to sand between coats of epoxy. Devcon 2 Ton is not better than Etex, it's just has different qualities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kribman Posted January 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 I just looked up Michael's and there is one within 10 miles of my house! I guess I will go get some Etex after I use up what I have here (it was $20 and I'm trying to save money by making lures). Thanks a lot guys Kribman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoodaddy Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Kribman Etex goes a long way so your 20 bucks could be a good investment. You should be able to coat lots of baits with that. (more than I could lose in a year ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Yeah! I thought I was going to save money too. Be very, very careful. Once you get really sucked in, there is no escape! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike-A-Pike Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 Yeah, I had a friend who told me that his wife had bought so much stuff on sale using the credit cards that he would have been ahead hundreds if the interest wasn't costing him thousands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishPA Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 What's the average set-up time like with Etex?? Cause if he doesn't have a turner that could make for a long day of plug rotating by hand!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braveviper Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 "saving money by making instead of buying" HAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAA. Brother, your in for a surprise.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 I think there might be a strong reason to thin the epoxy before brushing it on a lure. I speak for those using the printing foil technique. I have discovered that if you thin the the first layer of epoxy, the foil will show itself through the printed image. If you do not thin it, or if you use propionate solution, this will not happen. After the first layer of thinned epoxy, you can add layers of other clearcoats, including unthinned epoxy, and you can still see the reflectiveness of the foil. I add 10 - 12 drops of thinner (with a pipette) to prepare the necessary quantity for 2 baits, about 2 1/2 inches long. The picture shows 2 lures which were first coated with thinned Devcon 2T, then with 8 layers of propionate solution. BopP, I am very surprised to see that you rotate your baits for at least an hour with unthinned Devcon, and 2-3 hours if you thin it. The Devcon 2T I have, would not be good to brush it on a bait after about 10-12 min. from mixing (it hardens very quickly). I "eyeball" the quantities coming out from the syringes. Let's suppose I am wrong and I put more from the "A" component. Next time I use the epoxy, I will be necessarily wrong in the other direction (I will put more from "B"). But in both cases the epoxy becomes too hard to apply in about 10-12 minutes. Anyway, why do you need to spin the lures for this long? And what does the "30 minutes" refer to? I am just begining to "get aquaintance" with this material. I do not know what denaturated alcohol is. Do you think I could use 96 degrees alcohol (alimentary stuff) or sanitary alcohol (60 degrees) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kribman Posted January 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 The two ton I have to secure lips and hook hangers seems to dry way too quickly to paint on, after all it is known as the original super glue, right? Also, I don't see how it can't pay for itself after a certain point. I mean the production cost of one my lures is only $5.00 for a musky bait or so and $2 or $3 for a bass sized lure. With the airbrush and compressor, paints, and wood, the cost is large. But the average musky crankbait can be up to $10 and they can easily go up to $20's. Thats a $5 to $15 savings on every lure. If you make 40 lures, The cost is only about 200 dollars. 40 musky baits at $15 is $600. savings: $400. That easily covers the cost of my cheap airbrush and compressor, both only costed about $120. I got a large lumberyard nearby that'll sell maple and red oak cut-offs $10 for 3 20''X15" pieces. I think, as long as one normally buys 40 lures a year, you would be saving some moolah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesehead Posted January 30, 2008 Report Share Posted January 30, 2008 The problem is that once you start you can't stop. I've now gone onto hammering out some brass spoons. Who knows where it will end. oh that's right it will end when the pry my cold dead fingers off my airbrush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kribman Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 hah! Might aas well be cooking my own drugs for $50 dollars rather than buying prescriptions at $150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Rofish - There's little chance of Devcon sagging after about 30 minutes. But it is still a liquid (a very slow one) and will migrate a little - just like a glacier You can't handle the bait for 5-8 hrs anyway so why not turn it for an hour or two? I usually buy Devcon in the 9 oz bottle pack to save a few cents and I eyeball equal amounts out of both bottles simultaneously. The closer you are to 50/50, the harder it will cure. Properly mixed and measured Devcon cures to a nice slick hard surface. If you goof up, you will feel some drag when you grab the bait and run your fingers down both sides. The bait will also show hook rash more quickly when fished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hollywood100 Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Bob, Where do you buy devcon 2T in 9 oz. bottles. I can only find it in the syringes at Walmart. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 BobP I'll tell you why I don't want to rotate my baits for this long: it's because the electrical motor would get hot. I bought it as a second hand one (the only possibility for a new one seems to be to buy a microwave oven and take the motor out of it). So I don't know if a microwave electrical motor would normally get hot after an hour, or there is something wrong with the motor I have. What about thinning the epoxy with alcohol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 Motors do get hot anyway. There may be nothing wrong. If anyone thinks that I am wrong about this, then please step in. Any how, you should never leave a motor unattended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kribman Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I just need to know where I can get a good motor that wont spin the baits too quickly. The mount and clips should not be hard to create. Where did you guys get your motors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBlaze Posted January 31, 2008 Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 I got my motor off of a reindeer. the kind that is made of wire and minature lights. they are sold at christmas time. the motor made the reindeers head move. it is geared to turn approximately 4 RPM's. they cost about 20 bucks and as an added bonus, you can use the minature bulbs to make the glass rattles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kribman Posted January 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2008 what are the dimensions? I mean there are 4 rpm motors that are too small to turn baits on some websites, and it's hard to tell if they will work. Is there another measurement, such as voltage or fractional horsepower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
