robertjp Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 Hi Guys, Ive been making musky baits for awhile but lately Ive been having a problem with some of them. Im using white pine, lathed, a Zinser sanding sealer in white and createx paint and devcon topcoat. It seems that on some of them, the paint is peeling off in huge chunks basically ruining the lure. Is it possible createx is not compatible with zinser sealer? Should I use more than 1 coat of devcon. Ive had this problem on both straight and jointed. What do I do? you guys are the best. Any other recomendations for the white base coat.? Thanks Bob P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted November 24, 2003 Report Share Posted November 24, 2003 On muskie baits I would use at least 2 coats of devcon. If it doesn't effect the action, 3 coats would be the ultimate protection. I use 3 coats on muskie baits but my clear coat isn't as thick as devcon. Try 2 and see how it works for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatnik13 Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Are you air brushing them with createx? You need only lite coats till the lure is painted.Heavy coats of createx will peel. I don't use devcon so I don't know if thats the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertjp Posted November 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 yes airbrushing createx. Maybe too much paint. Any recomendations on a good white base coat, Im ready for a change. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 robertjp, Your problem is the sanding sealer. It is probably lacquer based. It is eating the water based paint that you are using. Either try lacquer paint or use polyurathane to seal your wood. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertjp Posted November 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Skeeter, I had a hunch that might be the problem. If I use a polyurathane base (is that clear?) what do I use for the white base coat? Thanks Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatnik13 Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 I don't use any type of sanding sealer. After it is fine sanded I use oil base white paint (2coats and sanded in between coats) except on dark or black finished lures because we don't want white showing up under a dark finished lure so Black oil base is used .Befor any oil base is used I let my water proof sealer dry 24hrs befor I prime coat with the oil base.Then your ready for createx or what ever paint you'll use.Oil base will cover stains and wood glue marks ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertjp Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Boatnik, Wont I have the same problem then? Id be painting over an oil base paint and the paint Im using is not oil based.?????What water sealer do you use? BP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Yes, you will have the same problem. The best advice I can give you is that if you use water based paints, use polyurathane to seal the lure. It is clear. Just wipe a coat or two on with a rag. Let it dry completely. Then light sand untill the lure is smooth. It only takes a few seconds. Then use similar paints to paint the lure. Then cleacoat the lure with whatever your favorite stuff is. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertjp Posted November 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Skeeter, Thanks. You da man! Can you recommend a good brand polyurathane? BP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatnik13 Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 this paint problem has never happened to me but I use clear coat on each color used, so that it will not bleed. The oil base is not the problem but a good clear coat will protect any paint that is applied over the base. I've had vinly paint peel off but it was a good thing. You can peel that off if needed.Then a good clear coat. Stay lite on paint coatings and clear coat when ever you feel it will not hold such as the merge of colors. One more question! what room temp. are you appling paint at? I don't suggest anything less than 70F. Also Are you thining your paint first? with what?. have you looked around and shoped for clearcoat products by 'COMPONENT SYSTEMS" ? I never thin my paint with thinners. You might also check with a taxidermist on the paint they use > they will use a water base looking(thin) paint for art work and its nice except colors are sometimes a non choice or a shade off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertjp Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Boatnik, I paint in the basement about 65-68 degrees, and I dont thin my createx paint. I use a devcon epoxy as a clearcoat. BP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 boatnik13, If you are clearcoating over each different color that you are using, then you are just killing yourself with work. If you have trouble with paint colors bleeding then you need to find a different type of paint my friend. robertjp, I am not a Createx fan. I have used it and the problem that I find with it is that it is too thin. After a pass or two the stuff will blow and run. I mainly have this problem on the stripe down the middle of the back of the lure. No matter how many times you shoot over the stripe after it dries, you cannot get rid of the line that the run makes. If you are going to use water based paints, then my suggestion is water based latex house paint that you get at Lowes. It is called One and Only. I started with this stuff and it works great. It is only about 3.00 a pint. You only need about 6 colors to give you a wide range of color patterns for baits. You thin it with water. about 3 parts paint and 1 part water. This is not exact but it will put you in the right direction. You will have to learn on your own the best mixture. Shoot it at about 18 psi through your gun. As far as temperature...... I have shot latex and lacquer as low as 54 deg. The reason warmer is better is because it dries quicker and will not run easily. For lacquer paint 75 deg. at 50% humidity is optimal. 70 to 75 deg. seems to be best for the latex. But you can shoot the stuff at lower temps. I shoot outside in the garage. If it is cold then I shoot it outside and bring it into the house to dry. It works fine. I use Devcon to clearcoat my baits. 75 deg. is optimal for curing. Below 70 deg. you will have to add about 10 min. of spinning time on a wheel for every 5 deg. below 70, or it will run or sag. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Old Skeet is dead on again. Everything he said is text book. Nice job on this post Skeeter. robertjp, if you can rig some ventilation, nothing shoots like lacquer. If you can't us lacquer, then Skeeter's post tells you your options. I might of missed it somewhere but, did you every say how many coats of Devcon you used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muskie1958 Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I have been using oil based cover stain as a sealer/basecoat for several years. Have also been using Createx for the same amount of time. I have had zero problems with my baits. I am using a water based paint over oil based sealer. It has worked for me and I know a very famous musky bait maker in WV who is also using this system. I let my baits hang for about a week so the sealer is very hard. Maybe this could be why I have not had the problems described on the previous posts. I have been told that the reverse application of oil base sprayed onto water base would not work. Nor would oil and laquer base. I apply 4 coats of Crystal sheen to my baits on a 6 rpm drying rack. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertjp Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Thanks guys. I will try all the tips. I knew you guys were the best from the old tacklemaking site. Happy Thanksgiving. BP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted November 29, 2003 Report Share Posted November 29, 2003 The polyurathane that I use is Minwax fast drying polyurathane, clear gloss. It comes in a pint and goes a long way. It comes in a smoke silver can. I got it at Lowes but I am sure Wal Mart has it also. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boatnik13 Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Skeeter! Its not common or all the time clear coating . its at diffrent applications such as color mixing.I don't risk the chance of damage to other colors or if I'm laying out tape for guide lines it will not pull the old paint. Most Everyone has a way and I don't think I'm wasting any time or money as long as it works.It is a helping aid and thats why I brought it up.This also works well on eye cover caoting or adding tinsel or other products over paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Absolutely!!!!!!! If it works for you and you are happy with it then that is fine. As you say, everyone has their own way. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
