psilvers Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Anyone have any good sources for tin? Thanks, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedHed Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Pete I don't have a source - try a PM to hawnjigs he should be able to help you on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted February 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Thanks LedHed. I can find small amounts locally. I did a search for 'Alchemy Castings" and found some larger amounts - also pewter! Best, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedHed Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 I got some of hawnjigs lead free UL jigs and just finish tying up 2 dozen last night. Down side to the lead free is you can't powder paint it. Had to use fingernail polish which worked out really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted February 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 I was looking for tin because it is harder than lead and less prone to be damaged when banging into the bottom. It also polishes nicely! LedHed - Southern Calif. or South Carolina? Just curious. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Casting Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Pete, If all your wanting is a harder bait and one that is shiny, you can use a lead that has a higher antimony and tin content. The draw back is that the sprue is harder to break of cleanly. Chuck Vanover Tight Line Anglers Products PH. 440-277-1511 Fax 440-277-9152 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted February 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Thanks Chuck. How high does the antimony and tin content have to be to get a bright shiny finish? I also wanted to experiment with tin to make a jig that was lighter and would sink at a slower rate than a lead jig. In practice, is there a dramatic difference between lead and tin jigs? Thanks Pete P.S. Chuck - do you have a web site that describes your casting services? I might be interested in utilizing them sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedHed Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Pete It's So California. Chuck is a site sponser and his link is on the right side of the page underneath the search forms feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted February 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Thanks LedHed. I thought it was So California. Damn, I didn't know you guys had any fishing there I should talk - I live in Kansas! When I lived in Alabama I fished the gulf as often as I could. On one trip to Orange Beach I saw all of these places that had L.A. in the name (L.A. Nightspot, L.A. Styles, or some such name). Being a NY'er I was kind of offended:) I said to a friend of mine "Why do you folks have such an obsession with California - you are a lot closer to NY". He gave me a puzzled look and I told him about the names I saw. He started laughing and then explained to me that L.A. stands for "Lower Alabama". Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Tin weighs 63% as much as lead so the slower sink rate will be noticeable especially with a wide flat body head like the Cabela's Wobble Jig. I got my last batch of tin on eBay because my commercial supplier Atlantic Metals and Alloys last price was $12 a lb. vs. $10 on eBay. Pure tin is only slightly harder than lead - Brinell hardness 51 vs. 38. Antimony by comparison has a Brinell of 294. Pewter(example Sn92 Sb7 Cu1) would be much harder than pure tin but I never tried pouring it. Pure tin pours kinda thick and might require cracking the mold for improved air release from the cavities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted February 1, 2008 Report Share Posted February 1, 2008 Hey, you're in luck! My eBay seller is offering 20# by the lb. and another seller is offering a 23# ingot. Unable to copy & past eBay URLs but you can search "Business and Industrial" - "Metals and Metalworking" - "Other Metals" for "tin". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted February 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Thanks Hawnjigs. I looked at a site in Mo. and they have different lead alloys for casting bullets (lead+tin+antimony). I might try something from them. From your post I take it that antimony dramatically increases the hardness. I will talk with the guys in Mo and find out what their hardest alloy is. Here is the URL for the Midway site if anyone is interested: http://www.midwayusa.com/ Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spin Casting Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Pete, We use a mix that has a 2% tin and 6% antimony. The tin is for fluidity and the antimony for hardness. We use silicone rubber molds so our baits have a satin finish if used in a aluminum do-it type mold they will be shinny. We do not have a web site. Most all the work we do is custom. We do offer a variety of options for manufacturing lead or tin products. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Chuck Vanover Tight Line Anglers Products PH. 440-277-1511 Fax 440-277-9152 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Tight Line's 92-6-2 alloy is the same as Midway's "hardball" which would be pretty hard. Linotype would be even harder. Hard alloys though might be difficult to hand pour small gate castings, and won't be significantly lighter than pure lead. You might try wheel weights with 2% tin added for a more economical hard lead alloy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Pete, You should try pouring a small quantity of tin before you invest in a larger purchase. As noted in a previous reply, it doesn't pour like lead, and can sometimes be finicky to deal with. Your hardware store should have rolls of lead-free solder. A 1lb spool of solid "lead-free" solder wire (97% tin, 3% copper) costs $9.49 at my local harware store. It will make very shiny jigs and is harder than soft lead. Melt down about 1/2 of the spool, and see how it pours for you. If it goes OK, you may not be able to find a better deal than that for tin. Also, if you have a keen eye, and can spot items made from pewter, check yard sales for old pewter pots, bookends, decorations, etc. I've found quite a lot of pewter this way, and pay less than a $1/lb, usually much less. I just melt it down into ingots and set it aside for special-purpose projects. Pewter pours like a dream, is lighter than lead but fairly hard, and generally makes for a bright, shiny jig. Good luck, hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Tight Line's 92-6-2 alloy is the same as Midway's "hardball" which would be pretty hard. Linotype would be even harder. Hard alloys though might be difficult to hand pour small gate castings, and won't be significantly lighter than pure lead. You might try wheel weights with 2% tin added for a more economical hard lead alloy. Just a friendly head's up: Linotype is indeed very hard, as compared to virtually any other lead alloy, but it pours extremely well. The alloy was designed to fill-out small type letters and reproduces detail like nothing else. I got several hundred lbs from a printer friend, and I'd take any more I could get my hands on! Linotype is about 85%, or thereabouts, the density of pure lead, but the exact alloy can vary. You can subsitute it for 'regular' lead, and as Hawnjigs said, in real practice you won't really notice the difference in weight. You can make jigs poured from wheelweight lead very hard by dropping the just-poured hot jigs into a 5gal bucket of icewater. They will take a few days to reach maximum hardness, and of course, having water around lead raises safety issues that must be addressed. Adding tin to wheelweight lead doesn't increase it's hardness. It's a common misconception, and I did it for a long time myself. It actually decreases the hardness a little. I can expound on any of this, if anyone wants more info. What a little tin will do, is increase the fluidity of the molten wheelweight alloy, and can make pouring a little easier. Take care, and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Wow, $9.49 for lead free solder is a deal - $18 something out my way. Yup, yard sale pewter is often a bargain, but I wonder if some that I've melted down haven't been valuable antiques. Although the modern standard for "pewter" is lead free with at least 92% tin I think, the old stuff could have a significant amount of lead in the alloy. And like "sagacious" says, one does develop a keen eye and feel for identifying pewter, although in the beginning antiqued brass & heavy aluminum alloys can fool ya. Hah, try melting aluminum in a home lead pot - I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagacious Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Wow, $9.49 for lead free solder is a deal - $18 something out my way. Yup, yard sale pewter is often a bargain, but I wonder if some that I've melted down haven't been valuable antiques. Although the modern standard for "pewter" is lead free with at least 92% tin I think, the old stuff could have a significant amount of lead in the alloy. And like "sagacious" says, one does develop a keen eye and feel for identifying pewter, although in the beginning antiqued brass & heavy aluminum alloys can fool ya. Hah, try melting aluminum in a home lead pot - I did. Sure 18/lb, but look at the view you guys get with your solder! Yeah, $9.49 is not too bad , eh? I had been paying about $12/lb, then I found some for $10/lb, and now just under $10. And this, when it seems like all other metals are getting more expensive! Just pays to keep your eyes open... Hawnjigs is spot-on about the potential for lead in pewter. If you need 100% "lead free" stuff, you'll have to bite the bullet, and save your yardsale pewter for something else. Talk about valuable antiques! Hey, if I can melt it down, it's a gonner lol! I've found some old artifacts from shipwrecks on the coast here, and if I can make lures out of 'em, that's what's gonna happen. I just figure that I found it in the sea, and it'll probably end up back there soon enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Well, not too long ago some metal bronze I think name plates from Titanic lifeboats auctioned in the $60,000-$70,000 price range...and not being a full 100 years old(I think) aren't even considered "antiques". OOPS, post hijacked, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirkfan Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 I use lead free tin solder (some of which I purchased on eBay for around $7 a lb), and it pours very well, either the tin alloyed with silver (97/3) or alloyed with copper (95/5). The thing I like about it is that it fills detailed molds like the Do-It ultra minnow and shad lure molds very well. I think this is because as it changes from a liquid to a solid it expands slightly ( you notice the handles of the mold trying to open slightly). I've powder painted it, so I don't know why LedHed has problems with that. Either alloy is basically pewter, I'd guess that if you could locate old pewter scrap metal, it would work very well too. The stuff stays shiny and looks pretty good with just a dusting of counter shading on the back ( I do use powder paint for that, my avatar is a "pewter" Do-It shad lure with a powder coated black back) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Ledheds alloy was bismuth/tin with a melting point of 281* F. Pure tin is 450*. Just checked ebay solder auctions and yes its possible to get a good price on lead free solder but you'd have to work for it. Suggest that solder for metal alloying should be solid wire as any cored fluxes in my experience make a mess in the melt pot ranging from annoying to dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psilvers Posted February 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Thanks for the info guys. I may try the linotype - it sounds like exactly what I want. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogajiga Posted February 2, 2008 Report Share Posted February 2, 2008 Don't rule out pewter because the real high tin stuff with 6-8% antimony is very hard and much lighter than any lead alloy if you're looking for slow fall. But be aware that the eBay definition of "pewter" would be any dark dusty looking old metal junk that would bring a few bucks more than at a scrap yard. I tried purchasing a few cheap "pewter" scrap & niknak auctions and got burned everytime. If you want to pursue the yard sale angle "sagacious" possibly & I could provide tips on distinguishing pewter from other cast metals. Yard sale/second hand store pewter is often a bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
