Tube Tails Question

[squigster]

I just bought a gallon of Lurecraft 500 plastic for dipping tubes. The tubes I made last night came out really nice but the cut tails are as stiff as a board. I used the fiskars blades on my rotary cutter. Is there anything you guys do to soften them up or do you add softener to the mix to soften the whole tube? I know its a matter of preference but the ones I buy from Schubert are a hard body with semi soft tails. That is what I am trying to achieve. I was going to try to just dip the tails in boiling water and see if that helped. Any suggestions, tips etc.. would be appreciated.

[bojon]

How many times did you dip the rods?I never had #500 do what you are saying.If you want softer tails,cut them thinner,or dip the rods first in softer plastic,then after cooling a bit follow up with the harder plastic.This might help,because the tail will split into double the amount of tail filements as the filiments seperate.

[squigster]

How many times did you dip the rods?I never had #500 do what you are saying.If you want softer tails,cut them thinner,or dip the rods first in softer plastic,then after cooling a bit follow up with the harder plastic.This might help,because the tail will split into double the amount of tail filements as the filiments seperate.

I only dipped them twice. They were okay when I cut the tails last night but they are real straight now and are not really flexible. My cutter has only 8 blades in it and I think I need more because on the bigger tubes it left uncut plastic on the sides. I sprayed Pam on the blades before I cut the tails. There is no salt in the baits at all but a fair amount of fine glitter. How far apart do you space your blades and how many blades do you think you really need?

[bojon]

Try dipping the first dip in softer plastic,followed by a second dip(after a slight cooling)of the harder plastic,#500.If you dip vertically just dip the body section up to were the tail begins.

I find that 14 blades on a rotary cutter is about right,The spacing is the thickness of a #10 flat washer.I don't know the exact measurement of the spacing.Some times the washers are thinner,the next time thicker.Lousy control of quality.I think some have rough edges.I bought some shim washers years ago,wow they cost a pretty penny,but exact thickness throuout.

[squigster]

I looked at the other tubes I bought and I think I know what the problem is. I double dipped the entire tube. I think the tails are twice as thick as they should be. I will have to mark a line on the rods so I know where to stop at on the second dip . I was dipping and dipping the entire tube again. Let me know your thoughts.

[bojon]

You got it right!

[squigster]

I tried it again tonight and I think the problems are both. One my spacing on my blades is too far apart and I only have 8 and need an additional 6, and the double dipping the whole bait is a problem. I am going to have to try and make a new tool for my blades because it is not wide enough to accomodate 14 blades. I know Bojon sells a tool and I would buy it but I already got 30 bucks tied up in the 8 blades I already have. Is there plans somewhere here on how to make a rolling cutter?

[Smallie]

From what I can see, it is a paint roller frame with the shaft diameter modified to go into the hole in the center of the blade. Washers space the blades apart. Check it out in this thread.

http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10112&highlight=tail+cutter

[squigster]

Thanks Smallie For The Info,

The spacing on the cutters looks to be about the same as mine but it is hard to tell. I think my spacing is still too far apart. As far as double dipping goes in my earlier post, if you would dip using the horizontal method you would have to double dip the entire tube not just half of it as what I had thought so you would always end up with real thick tails. I am doing it vertically because I burnt the plastic in a pan trying it horizontally. The tubes turn out great but after I cut the tails and turn the tube upside down the tails do not fall over the sides. They stick straight up in the air. When you guys dip tubes do you make a ton of plastic to do alot of tubes. It took me 4 cups of plastic (seems to be about 1/4 gallon) in a martini mixer to make about 20 double dipped tubes before the plastic got sucked up to the point where the rest of the tubes would be shorties. I would be curious to know what most guys use to dip their tubes in and what would be a better way to do it if you wanted to make 100 in one night. Does anyone know of most decent store bought tubes dip soft plastic for the first dip then dip hard for the second? Also are you guys using 28mm cutter blades? They seem too small for larger tubes. The plastic wraps all the way aroung the blades and sometimes never cuts the ends correctly.

[SWO]

Squigster,

What size tubes are you trying to make? I've had no trouble cutting tails with one of Bojon's cutters with 28mm blades for tubes up to 4 1/2" long. I believe the spacing on the blades is about .040". I've made triple dipped tubes (horizontally dipped) using Lurecraft 500 and have had no trouble with stiff tails.

Make sure you press down hard when cutting, especially near the end of the tube so you get a clean cut. I'm guessing it your problem is that your blades are spaced too far apart which would give you wider and stiffer tail strands.

Bojon also shared a technique where he "burps" the tubes while cutting to get the air out of them so the tube doesn't bunch up while cutting. This gives you a cleaner cut. He would be able to describe the technique better than me.

[squigster]

Squigster,

What size tubes are you trying to make? I've had no trouble cutting tails with one of Bojon's cutters with 28mm blades for tubes up to 4 1/2" long. I believe the spacing on the blades is about .040". I've made triple dipped tubes (horizontally dipped) using Lurecraft 500 and have had no trouble with stiff tails.

Make sure you press down hard when cutting, especially near the end of the tube so you get a clean cut. I'm guessing it your problem is that your blades are spaced too far apart which would give you wider and stiffer tail strands.

Bojon also shared a technique where he "burps" the tubes while cutting to get the air out of them so the tube doesn't bunch up while cutting. This gives you a cleaner cut. He would be able to describe the technique better than me.

Thanks SWO,

I am trying to make a 3 1/2" and 4 1/2". The cutter I was using had double washers between the blades. I think it was too much. I bought 6 more blades and the spacing is about the thickness of a dime between the blades. I have 13 blades becasue that is all I could fit in my tool. This should work better. I will try it and see what happens. I still think the tail may be too stiff for my liking so I may have to dip soft plastic then dip the 500 to get what i want. That is going to be a pain to do if I have to. I will see what happens after I make some more tubes tonight and cut them with the new blades added. Will keep you guys posted. Thanks Again!

[bojon]

Double washers would be a bit much.Try a washer that you can get from a auto supply store in a small bag.When putting on the handles,try to leave one so you can remove it.Not easy,but nice if you can. Less adhesive?Protect the blades.Use a 3/16 inch rod for the shaft.The reason for the handle is so you can apply pressure and protect your fingers.You can use a dowel or thread spool,keep the diameter to no more than 7/8 inch,Just the blades rotate.Keep your tubes lubed,and cut on a self healing mat.

[squigster]

Double washers would be a bit much.Try a washer that you can get from a auto supply store in a small bag.When putting on the handles,try to leave one so you can remove it.Not easy,but nice if you can. Less adhesive?Protect the blades.Use a 3/16 inch rod for the shaft.The reason for the handle is so you can apply pressure and protect your fingers.You can use a dowel or thread spool,keep the diameter to no more than 7/8 inch,Just the blades rotate.Keep your tubes lubed,and cut on a self healing mat.

Ok, I redid it with single washers and it is twice as bad. Everything clogs and rips. I used standard 6mm washers (outside dia. about 1/4" dia. - thickess of a dime) evenly spaced between blades. I thought it would work great. Sprayed pam on tubes and blades and it ripped them to ####. I am using a one handed tool so evenly applying pressure is a little hard. I am have to going to look for a #10 washer as you suggested. I made 40 tubes tonight and they are tailless but really nice looking if I dont destroy the tails. I am going to have to make handles and get a steel shaft. My brother is a machinist so he can probably do this for me. I will let you know on the next go around. Thanks again! Hey can anyone tell me how to downsize the file for a picture so I can post it here?

[Smallie]

snip It took me 4 cups of plastic (seems to be about 1/4 gallon) in a martini mixer to make about 20 double dipped tubes before the plastic got sucked up to the point where the rest of the tubes would be shorties. snip

I don't make tubes but it seems like 4 cups is a tremendous amount of plastic for 20 baits 4 1/2 inches long and hollow. What kind of wall thickness are you getting? I would think that the thicker the wall, the more it would clog up a tail cutter.

Take a knife and slice a tube to see. Your plastic may not be hot enough.

[squigster]

Smallie,

I am dipping at a lower temperature to get a thicker wall on purpose. I do not now the exact thickness but it looks to be about the same as Schuberts (Laketown Mfg.). That is what I want. If I only dip the head on the second dip and cut the tails on the first dip section then it looks like there are not enough tails plus it still clogs the cutter. I am beginning to think that the blades are too close and that I need two handles in order to apply the right amount of pressure to cut them cleanly. I will try making a new cutting tool and see what happens. I will post some pics if I can. I cannot figure out how to get the file size small enough so that I am allowed to post it on here. If I do I will post some pics. Thanks!

[bojon]

I think you are over complicating a simple process.If you are making tubes as thick as it sounds with that much plastic I see no way for success.To bad you don't have a copy of my video,it would save me a whole bunch of one fingered typing.

First of all forget the one handle cutter for what you want to do,and start thinking,a cutter that kooks like a rolling pin that you might find in the kitchen,but without the wooden center section.This section would be replaced with the shaft,washers and blades.You will need two hands,and more important,equal pressure.To assemble the cutter you will need:

3/16 inch steel rod,cut to the width of the blade assembly plus about 4 inches,faucet washers to provide a good firm stop for the first and last washers,JB weld to set the wood handles of your choice,two 3/16 self threading nuts(Pal Nuts).Make sure your blades rotate freely,with no wobble.

I usually make about two dozen tubes per four onces.You can make them as thick as you want,by cooling and dipping multiple times.Make sure you lubricate the tubes in a baggie,or whatever ,using scent or worm oil,before cutting the tails.When I was making the ebook,I didn't use lub,when taking self movies,to protect the camera from smudges,and the tails were a lot harder to cut.

Did you try a softer plastic formula for the first dip???I don't under stand how the tubes got that stiff.

I plan on selling Bojon tail cutters in a week or so(depending on mat'l suppliers).I wish you luck.Let me know on your progess.If I can help,I will.

[squigster]

I think you are over complicating a simple process.If you are making tubes as thick as it sounds with that much plastic I see no way for success.To bad you don't have a copy of my video,it would save me a whole bunch of one fingered typing.

First of all forget the one handle cutter for what you want to do,and start thinking,a cutter that kooks like a rolling pin that you might find in the kitchen,but without the wooden center section.This section would be replaced with the shaft,washers and blades.You will need two hands,and more important,equal pressure.To assemble the cutter you will need:

3/16 inch steel rod,cut to the width of the blade assembly plus about 4 inches,faucet washers to provide a good firm stop for the first and last washers,JB weld to set the wood handles of your choice,two 3/16 self threading nuts(Pal Nuts).Make sure your blades rotate freely,with no wobble.

I usually make about two dozen tubes per four onces.You can make them as thick as you want,by cooling and dipping multiple times.Make sure you lubricate the tubes in a baggie,or whatever ,using scent or worm oil,before cutting the tails.When I was making the ebook,I didn't use lub,when taking self movies,to protect the camera from smudges,and the tails were a lot harder to cut.

Did you try a softer plastic formula for the first dip???I don't under stand how the tubes got that stiff.

I plan on selling Bojon tail cutters in a week or so(depending on mat'l suppliers).I wish you luck.Let me know on your progess.If I can help,I will.

Hey Bojon,

Thanks for the response. I watched one of your clips so I can see what your cutter looks like. The problem is that my brother made me a cutter that was for one hand use and I thought that it would be no problem, but apparently is it. I did not try the softer plastic for the first dip. I tried dipping tubes using soft plastic last week and the tails cut like #### on those too. Everybody who responded to a previous thread suggested I go to 500 plastic. I know that this is not that difficult but I thought the tool he made me would work. Do you know the thiockness of the washers you are using. I think you said they were #10 washers. Is that correct? Do you not doube dip the tails on your tubes, just the body? Thanks for your help.

[dabskie]

Hey Squigster,,if you go to search type in "July 12 2007" Under thread titled Tubes ,,,I need to make some,,,,,go to page 3 ,,post 23 ...click on the video link,,,,,might help you.

dabskie

[bojon]

Suggest the 3500 plastic.The prefered washer size,in my opinon,is the number ten washer.I have used other washers but these worked well.the problem is that quality control is lousy,and they vary in thickness.I try to match them the best I can.I have bought shim washers but they cost a arm and a leg,and are really not needed.Most of my tubes are dipped once.I like to make mine similar to the fat Gitzit.Thin walled but tough.The tails are very active.I also dip multiple times,depending on what I want.When horozontal dipping I just dip the first dip all the way.Allow to cool then dip again at a fair angle to just get the front potion of the tube.Vertical dippin the front would be easier.

[Garneau Baits]

This is the cutter i use. I had it made for me it has about 70 blades. I can cutt 4 at a time.

[squigster]

How does it work? I looks like a board full of razor blades. How do you cut tails with it?

[Garneau Baits]

It works great, I lay the tubes on the blades, the 2 lines on the board are markers for a 1 inch body or 2 inch body. I then put a piece of rubberized belting material over them then a piece of wood over that then press them with a 3ton arbor press. go to this link to see a few i did

http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11937

[Garneau Baits]

I'm a ups Driver by day pourer at night LOL. Anyway i deliver to a Company that makes die cutters for the box industry and other apps. they put that together for me for free. If i get big enough im going to have them make me a real big one that i can put in a klicker press. that would be the way to go for big production.

[squigster]

I dont know if they still do it or not but Schuberts Tubes (Laketown Mfg.) had a bunch of older women cutting the tube tails by hand. I guess women have that kind of patience. I would go nuts after a while. Its pretty neat system you have. What type of paints do you use if you dont mind me asking? I always end up spending money and wasting it on the wrong stuff. You can PM me if you want.

[Garneau Baits]

LC paint now it works great.....