how to make these....pics inside ??

[loco]

just browsing the image gallery and came across these. i really like the idea of adding a tail to a crankbait.

how do you make these ? also, how do you attach them to the crank bait ?

http://www.tackleunderground.com/photos/index.php?n=1439

http://www.tackleunderground.com/photos/index.php?n=1440

thanks !!

[mark poulson]

If you want to know, try scrolling down in the gallery below the picture, and email or pm the maker(s). I think I remember how one of them did it, but it's really better explained by the maker directly.

[benton B]

Why not take a little time and try to figure out a thing or two own your own. Sorry if that sounds not nice but you will learn a lot of info from a failure or two.

[Vodkaman]

Sounds harsh, but I do agree. It is the way that I work and satisfaction does come my way when I crack the problem. Also, this is the only way new techniques will come about. In a couple of weeks you could be posting a tutorial on how you solved the problem.

I checked out the first link that you posted and it all looks fairly obvious to me, a wood/plastic sandwich.

[Orion]

Benton B, I do understand where you're coming from, but.... I think that by asking he could be pointed in the right direction, thus not having quite as much trial and error as you suggested. Just my opinion.

Now to give some ideas;

loco, theres a post up right now that talks about attaching curly tails to lures, I think this might be done in the same way. I have never made one of these so this is just from what I have gained in information from this site.

I would try getting some SS (stainless steel) wire and epoxying it into the lure, The applying super glue to both the tail and the the wire and inserting the wire into the tail.

Another option is to make a cork-screw type thing with the SS and epoxying it into the lure then just twisting on the tail.

You can learn a lot from this site by using the search tool. Try searching for tails, curly tails, plastic tails, etc.

As for making the plastic tail, I have no experience at pouring plastic, but there are a few tutorials about making your own plastic molds. I will include one of those those below.

Here are a couple links to get you started,

Attaching Curly Tails-

http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7755&highlight=curly+tail

Making A Mold-

http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10677

[loco]

nice helpful bunch of folks here in the hard bait forum. (i hope you can sense the sarcasm)

i guess i'll just head back over to the soft plastics forum where folks dont seem to mind lending a helping hand......politly.

thanks anyway.

[mark poulson]

loco,

People here are very helpful. They just don't like to step on each other's toes when it comes to original ideas, me included. But I do remember the first lure's maker did post how he did it, so I feel comfortable sharing it.

If you pm the guys who made the lures you like, you'd probably get your answer. Or do a search for attaching tails.

If my memory serves me correctly, the first one you liked had a slot ending in a drilled hole top to bottom. The maker poured tails with a cylinder on the end, slid them down into the slot, with the cylinder on the end keeping it from pulling out, and super glued it in.

The other lure's tail is in a slot, with pins holding it in.

[benton B]

Vodkaman, you nailed right there in your post. Everything he needed to know was in those pics.

The old school guys that used to be on this site would give you a little hint and then expect you figure some things out on your own. I guess I'm one of the old school guys now. I expect the new guys to do a little work and make a few mistakes. If this is not being polite then so be it.

[Spike-A-Pike]

loco.

The folks in the hard bait forum are a very helpful bunch... But, without apparently ever having made a single lure, you are asking how craft a bait that requires a pretty good knowledge to successfully create. Most folks come into this forum asking how start into making a basic bait, normally starting with a simple top water design.

Just learning a few skills will require you to put in some time to learn how to shape, lay out, balance, seal, paint, and finish a hard bait. There is a large degree of art to making a hard bait, you can't just buy the knowledge and expect to turn out a masterpiece. Nothing against any of the guys in the soft plastics forum, but there are even kids that pour baits on a regular basis for fund raising.

Average time to pour a few worms is what? Microwave the plastic, 5 minutes, actually pour the plastic, 2 to 5 minutes, 10 minutes for the mold to cool. In an hour or two, you can become fairly proficient at pouring plastics, not an expert by any stretch, but proficient.

There are several members in this forum that have been working to develop a bait for months. They have a perfect bait in their minds that they are attempting to actually produce. They prototype the design, there are successes and failures, but the knowledge is gained and the design, the materials, the bouncy are reconfigured and a new prototype is developed. What your asking for is how to create the Mona Lisa without having even finished a paint by number painting. Good luck.

[mark poulson]

I think maybe we all misread Loco's original post.

He asked how to make the tails, and how they're attached, not how to make crankbaits. At least, that's what I got when I reread his post.

The original maker of the first lure posted a "how I did it" thread a while back, so it's not a secret.

The other lure clearly has pins.

I don't know anything about pouring plastics, except what I've read here, but it seems to me that, once you decide on the shape of the tail you want, it should be pretty straight forward.

Make a mold, and pour.

[loco]

i certainly share a respect for new hobbiests that are venturing into a bait making hobby. as im sure most of you do also. when someone new comes along, we have to learn somehow. when a newbie asks a question, its only seems polite to lend a hand.....like i said, we all start somewhere and crawl before we walk.

just for knowledge sake, i did the forum searching using the search button on the upper right. apparently i didnt use the right terms because after browsing thru 14 pages i wasnt able to find anything on the subject of attaching a tail to a crankbait.

everyone that pm'd me.....thanks ! dont worry, my feelings arnt hurt. nothing can happen on an internet forum that will ruin my day. i understand that everyone is different and move on.

but dont worry. im going to spend some time in my workshop this weekend and i will create my own tails and attach them to a few crankbaits.

thanks anyway !

[JBlaze]

Loco, hope they turn out good for you.

John

[Bogbaits]

I think everyone needs to remember when they started on this site they asked quite a lot of questions,yes they tried things on their own also,b benton,I looked up some of your post when you started and you asked a lot of questions so dont forget that a lot of people helped you and gave you direction,this kind of reaction to a question is quite rude and disrespectful and discourages future post ,is that what this site is all about,and then you have senior members chimming in and agreeing with b benton,not good.

[Terrydabassman]

I remember when I started, I just bought a saw, sander and a drill press and went to it.

No way did I put out good looking "workable" lures. Then one day I amazed myself and made an awesome looking lure, BUT it didn't swim what so ever.

Then came the questions, but I tried on my own first just to see how far I could go. I made some butt ugly baits I tell ya, but at the time they weren't.

You can be sure the fellow that made those cranks with the tails went through a ton of trial and error before he got it right. To me I'd think the weight of the tail would effect overall performance. BUT then again, I've never tried it.

The biggest tip I ever got from TU was two simple words, "center line". Oh what problems that did solve. Five years later, I'm still learning and I still make an occasional bait that looks great but won't swim...toss it and start over.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, even if the fellow told you exactly how he did everything doesn't mean you could duplicate it. (kind of wood, wood density, etc.)Think about this too...what if it didn't swim...was an awesome looking bait and an awesome idea....but what if?

There's nothing more satisfying for me than to make a great looking and great swimming crank bait....except when there's a hawg on the end of it, that's greater.

I painted plastics and refinished lures before I started making cranks. It's fun and addicting and you never stop learning and experimenting.

[braveviper]

Well said Terry.Im all for trial and error and figuring things out on your own but sometimes asking someone how exaactly to do something could save a guy some money too.Experimenting can get expensive.

[benton B]

I've answered more questions on this forum than I've asked, in the open forum and thru PM's. The reason why is I'm not afraid to get in the shop and tear up some wood to find the answer I'm looking for. My point is you should give an idea a try and then if your stuck ask the question or ask for a little tip to push you in the right direction. Don't come in saying I saw a pic in the gallery, how did they do that? If you ask me that is rude. At least PM the builder and ask if they mind sharing the technique.

[hazmail]

Being new here, I am probably sticking my neck out, but I go along with benton B, when I get stuck, or don’t understand something, like ‘what’s a muskie’, I will then ask. If we all jumped in first post asking how to build something, we would still be trying to invent the wheel, innovation does not come from copying.

I truly admire the guys in places like Romania, who have little in components, and probably no means of getting them, language difficulties (how many of us can speak two languages), yet they still manage to do some great work – through thinking around it, recycling and using whatever comes to hand, just to get a job done and go fishing.

Sorry if I have offended anyone, but sometimes we just have to help ourselves, I could go on but I won't. pete

[tinman]

While traveling down life's proverbial highway, who are you going to help? The guy on his way to work with his hood up & steam coming out his radiator, or the guy standing along side of the road with a nap sack & his thumb out. They're both trying to get somewhere!

I know Loco, you weren't looking for a free ride. You're obviously a good contributor to this site. But on the cyber hi-way you see all types. It's kind of hard to tell the difference, sometimes. In the information age we're in you can pretty much hit the key board & find out anything you want. Maybe it's a generational thing, but some of us old guys look at things a little differently. JMHO and sorry to get off subject. Good luck on your project.

[rlcam]

I think I can see where loco may get the idea of some people being rude on this post.Not being disrespectful at all (please don't take it that way),but if I had gotten an answer like that I might have been leary about coming back to ask any more questions.I have been fortunate I guess to not have ask certain questions too soon.I am pretty new to this site and already have a great amount of respect for the guys on here,they have helped me a ton,although I did start before coming here and posting questions.So loco don't get the wrong idea about the hardbait section because it will be very beneficial to you,and the guys here will help you any way they can.I think pm'ing they guy is the way to go,I have done that on several occasions.

[loco]

you know folks, there are just alot of people in the world with different attitudes, opinions, and thoughts about what they feel is the right way to ask a question. this is obvious.

remember, its only a question. something i learned along time ago is that if i dont have anything helpful to say, i dont say anything at all. others should learn and practice.

instead of being rude, simply keep it to youself. if you have the right to be rude to a simple question, then a newbie has the same right to ask. whats the difference ??

truthfully, at this point, im sorry i asked the question. i still feel i was given rude responses, and people like benton b keep adding fuel to the fire.

let it go..... it was only a question.

[Bogbaits]

I think people should practice what they preach,b benton for one,he started on this site asking questions and now hes got this attitude,If you have nothing to say to help someone I say dont say anything,Let someone who is willing to help do so instead of being rude and ugly,this isnt about choosing sides,its supposed to be about helping other talking hobbiest,helping others,get it!The reason this site was started,not to ridicule people for asking questions,get real everyone.

[Bogbaits]

Thats tackle hobbiest.

[mark poulson]

I think prochallenger is right.

I don't think anyone who has posted on this thread means anything they post as a personel attack. But some of the posts can read that way.

I know it took some of you a long time to get where you are, and to learn what you know. I'm 60, and have been a carpenter for over 40 years. It took a long time to get where I got, but now I am a good carpenter. It's what I was meant to do. And I love to teach others what I know. Hoping they get as much satisfaction from the work and craft as I do.

And I can see in reading what others post here that the guys (and, maybe, gals) who are really good at lurecraft seem to take the same joy in sharing what they know.

So let's not lose what makes this forum different and special.

No elitist cliches, no attitudes, no egos, just info and learning and fun. And friendship.

When I came on here less than a year ago, all I was looking for was how to replace a friend's lure that I had borrowed and broken.

Instead, I found a great bunch of people.

Over the short time I've been visiting here, I've learned so much and made some great online friends.

And I spend a lot more time in the garage, working with wood, instead of in the house, working with beer.

Oh well, I guess everything has it's tradeoffs! )

Seriously, I hope we don't lose that great attitude, and let this site degenerate into a "whose right" type of situation that turns people, old and new, completely off.

[Orion]

Here's a quote that I've heard a lot growing up, "Smart people ask questions". I remember when I joined this site, I was totally new at every aspect of this trade. I asked some questions, and then I started PM'ing VMan with A LOT of questions, and he answered all of them quite well. Now, I'm not saying go ask VMan all your questions. I'm saying I know when I was new to this site I ask a **** load of questions and never got put down or told to go try until you fail and then come back. That is the reason I tried to answer loco's question, I'm trying to give back some of what I've learned, and I think THAT is what this site is about, not trial and error until you're stuck.

[Vodkaman]

It is a shame that this thread has taken such a dive. The guy asked a simple question and immediately, the thread went off at a tangent. As a result, we missed the opportunity to convert a plastics guy to the joys of hard bait manufacture.

I never read Benton’s post as a derogatory or negative in attitude. Hell, I hate being told to ‘go suck it and see’ or ‘go burn some firewood’, I don’t mind saying, I was furious when these comments were made to me twelve months ago. I read Benton’s comment as encouragement to ‘have a go’ and see if you can figure it out, as part of the pleasure of design is solving the problems. I even gave a hint as to the direction that I would have taken. No one ever suggested that the information should not be given.

Another issue that was skirted upon, in this threads journey through the bowels of TU, was the moral intellectual rights of the original designer. I say moral, as the actual design is probably not protected, but if his design is used, he should at least get some credit for his problem solving skills. The suggestion made, to contact the original designer for information etc was a good one.

I was disappointed when Loco took umbrage and announced his return to the plastics forum, never to visit the hard baits ever again. I PM’d my thoughts to him with an apology for my part in this mess, to which he sent me a very nice reply.

Every time this issue comes to the table, it is always highly emotive and we never seem to learn from the outcome. My philosophy is to help people. Orion, thanks for those nice words, We must have exchanged fifty PM’s and e-mails, it felt good to help. A lot of the stuff that I write is difficult to understand. I am always happy to clarify points or answer other technical questions by post or PM, generally, this work gets priority over everything else, quite often I learn a great deal during this process.

I really hope that we can put this one to bed and start solving some of the easier problems that plague the lure designer, like world peace!