Knot Wars I think they got it wrong how about you?

[Fish_N_Fool]

If any of you watched Knot Wars on the N. American fishing club they rated the palomar as the best knot for all lines and I totally disagree. For one I find it the hardest to tie of all the majorly used knots and it is ez to get a bad know as it will burn the line and it you get the lines crossed in it, it will break at about half the line strength. The two knots I use the Most is The Trilene knot and one I came up with on my own that I call the Fish-N-Fool Knot It is like a uni knot but you go through the hook eye twice and wrap the line back through the loop at least 4 to 5 times. I was at a fishing show over the weekend they had a knot tester there. So I tied up my Fish-N-Fool knot and put it head to head against the guys palomar that was running the booth and mine won 3 out of 3 times, We used mono, braid, and a floro. All three times my knot did not fail . Where the palomar failed twice and the line broke in the middle once. That was with the mono. Here is a diagram of my knot

When tighting up this knot you MUST pull the tag end first and tighten the knot up on the line. Then slide the knot down to the hook.

So whats your favorite knot? Try Tieing this one to one end and your favorite knot to the other end and pull, see for yourself which ones better.

[Lure--Prof]

This is an interesting subject, for sure. A properly-tied and wetted palomar is tough to beat with softer more stretchy lines of a diameter small enough to allow the knot to tie up very tight, with no gaps, and no allowable play or movement in a shock situation, such as a hard hookset on a big fish with a flipping stick. The line testing equipment used in the test, only tests one aspect of line and knot strength: Shock strength is completely removed from the equation with the slow, steady pull the typical line tester utilizes.

Quite a few years ago, Florida Sportsman magazine did shock testing various lines and knots, and arrived at some quite different results than that same old steady-pull tester gave, which bore out some expensive experiences I'd had while tournament fishing and field testing some of the early copolymer technology. I was breaking 25 and 30 pound line in sudden shock load situations, and never breaking 16 pound, both with a palomar. My temporary solution was to change line brands when going to the larger diameter stuff. I learned also that the old improved-clinch knot that never beat the palomar on the line testing machine, didn't break my heart on big fish when using big line, like the palomar would.

This is just one example that showed me that certain knots perform better with certain lines in particular real-world situations, while the dang line testing machine gave us no useful information at all: Worse, it just confused the issues.

By the same token, when the flourocarbons hit the market many fishermen broke a lot of lines because they were "burning" their old reliable palomar knots. If your knot with flouro doesn't tie completely friction free, don't think twice--immediately retie the knot until it slides together like butter!

Congrats fish'nfool on coming up with your good knot!

Dean

[SmokeyJ]

I have been using the San Diego Jam knot since halfway through last season and have really liked it.

I had a lot of trouble tying the palomar without getting the crossovers that ruin the knot strength, so I started using this one and like it alot. It is a little big, but it is very strong, especially if you double the line like you would with a palomar and then tie it. I don't use fluoro but I have heard this is a really good knot if you do.

[Orion]

IMHO, the palomar is very very easy to tie. I've been using it for a long time and it has never broke on me once. I'm starting to use the grinner knot now though, theres a post on braided line knots a while back, (to read it search for grinner). Also, in my opinion as well, just because they didn't include your knot or some other knots didn't mean they got it wrong. They just concluded what the knots and line was telling them. You should send in your knot to them to go against the palomar, I sent in the grinner.

[jflures]

I'm a palomar guy. Its like any knot the more you use it the easier it becomes to tie

[Spike-A-Pike]

There was a very cool knot that philB introduced about a month or 2 back, the last time this subject came up... I think it was called a Grinner knot... something like that. I pulled out some old fishing line, both braided and mono, and the knot was surprisingly strong and according to the web reference philB, it caused little or no strength reduction.

[Palmetto Balsa]

Palomar-hands down. E-Z

Just run your line through the hook from the right to the left with the point toward you and it will stay out of the grove.

[LedHed]

Palomar and uni.

[The Dutchman]

Go to youtube and pull up Alton Jones' reverse clinch knot. This is the easist to tie with any line and about 100%. I switched to this knot from the palomar and had absolutely no problem.

[spnrbatr]

This is what I use as rule of thumb and it has never been a problem for me. Jigs and plastic worms (Texas Rig or Carolina Rig) palomar knot. Spinnerbaits and crankbaits Trilene knot. If it's not broke don't fix it.

[CreekMonster]

Its a "cinch" for me. Not sure of the proper name but you wrap from the top towards the hook and bring the tag end back up through a loop at the top. Its fast, easy, and I've never had a problem when tied properly. A few line breaks and bent hooks but as far back as I can remember, I've never had one fail.(Knock on wood) I've used it for around 20 years now. I use it for everything I fish for.Its one heck of a knot.Seems like the harder you snatch it, the tougher it gets, and I can tie one up in a few seconds( less than 10) IMHO

[outdooradvantage]

Very Cool Thread. This Plase Is A Smorgasborg Of Information...............

[King Bait Co.]

Not sure what knot I use is called. You just run the line though the eyelet of the hook and up about three inches. Twist the two lines together 13 times and run the end line though the loop above the eyelet and pull. Never breaks on me its a money knot for me. I use it on every thing.

[Palmetto Balsa]

Never breaks on me its a money knot for me. I use it on every thing.

I hope you didn't just jinx yourself on that one.

[redg8r]

Not sure what knot I use is called. You just run the line though the eyelet of the hook and up about three inches. Twist the two lines together 13 times and run the end line though the loop above the eyelet and pull. Never breaks on me its a money knot for me. I use it on every thing.

I think thats called a blood knot or a fisherman's knot, I use that one with mono & form a bulb on the line end with a lighter to prevent it backing up thru the twists.

I'm not sure it works well on other types of lines, but it rarely fails me with mono.

[hazmail]

'Will Not'. pete

[philB]

'Can Not'. philB

[Sonny.Barile]

Fishin-Fool

I tried your knot a minute ago on some 30 pound braid and I like it. I had what looked to be my biggest striper ever (wild) about 4 ft. pull a palomar out on this same size line. I got him to the boat, I tipped the rod straight up (probably a mistake) to reach for my glove and as I started to raise my head back up I watched my knot unwind. He slipped right off with my soft plastic still in his lip. I know it was tied well cause minutes before I pulled up a 15 incher. I have tried a few diferent knots and none really lock that braid down well. Some make the joint to stressed and the braid breaks which freaks me out cause this isnt supposed to happen with braid.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Sonny.Barile
cause Im dumb

[cullin8s]

Palomar and double Palomar is what I use with everything except flouro where I use the improved clinch knot

[BobP]

Creek Monster, the knot you describe sounds like the San Diego knot. It works very well for fluorocarbon and is as quick to tie as a cinch knot. The Alton Jones knot is the same except the tag end is threaded only through the loop next to the hook, and not the top loop. I think knots that include wraps around the mainline to cushion it from shock are worthwhile for superlines and fluorocarbon. I've easily broken 30 lb braid tied with a Palomar knot by snap setting against a snag. I like the knot but no longer use it for everything. Here's a link to a knot tying instruction site, fyi.

http://shoreangling4u.tripod.com/knotguide/id30.html

[SmokeyJ]

Not to be picky BobP, but the San Diego Jam knot you put the tag end through both the loop between the hook and the bottom of the wraps and then also the loop at the top, whereas the reverse clinch knot which Alton Jones uses you only bring the tag end back up through the loop at the top, not the loop between the hook and the bottom of the wraps. I prefer the San Diego Jam on my braid and the reverse clinch on mono/copoly. Both work well, although I am paranoid on the braid and put a dab of superglue on the knot to prevent the tag end slipping, even though it probably isn't necessary. Here are links to the two knots:

Alton Jones Reverse Clinch Knot

San Diego Jam Knot

[Piscivorous Pike]

...

So whats your favorite knot? Try Tieing this one to one end and your favorite knot to the other end and pull, see for yourself which ones better.

I just joined the fray, as you see, but I will take up this invetation as the topic is never old. I agree it depends on the product you tie. I saw the knot wars and did not entirely agree with the results after my own experiences.

When super lines first became available it was found that the wraps often cut through the knot, so you needed more lines under the wrap to support it.

I took the challenge and and created a knot that works in the super lines, braid and fused lines but not to good in mono. I believe it is 100% strength in most applicartaions.

I submittted my knot to In-fisherman and it was reviewed by Mr. Stange, The Kramer Knot, was published in the In-fisherman, March 1995 edition.

This illustration is directly from that publication, belongs to them I believe I am allowe to use it since I created it so here is...

[Fish_N_Fool]

WOW WOW WOW did you guys see they have picked up my knot at knot wars and it is winning it all!!!!!!! I was so shocked to turn on the north American fishing show to watch knot wars and bang there is my knot being tested. This is so cool.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Fish_N_Fool

[Piscivorous Pike]

WOW WOW WOW did you guys see they have picked up my knot at knot wars and it is winning it all!!!!!!! I was so shocked to turn on the north American fishing show to watch knot wars and bang there is my knot being tested. This is so cool.

For cryin' out loud! Torture me! I have not been a member long enough to know what knot that is!

Likely it is in my scrap book because I scour the internet weekly for fishing knots from around the world, I collect them and enjoy working with knots. As you can see, I got one that only made one publication.

My quest is still to find the best knot I can tie with cold arthritic hands while fishing the Montana winters.

Which knot, tell me, PLEEZZE.

EDIT:

DUH:

I found it: Fish-n-Fool, what else! Congratulations.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Piscivorous Pike
stupidity

[Fish_N_Fool]

For cryin' out loud! Torture me! I have not been a member long enough to know what knot that is!

Likely it is in my scrap book because I scour the internet weekly for fishing knots from around the world, I collect them and enjoy working with knots. As you can see, I got one that only made one publication.

My quest is still to find the best knot I can tie with cold arthritic hands while fishing the Montana winters.

Which knot, tell me, PLEEZZE.

Pike here is the video from last weeks Knot Wars on the North American Fishing Club site that shows how to tie the Fish-N-Fool knot. North American Fisherman Magazine - Video & Podcasts This is gonna be almost as cool as my Sink-N-Fool line of baits.

Tnx FNF.

Rick Lawrence

Fish-N-Fool Lures