What would you do?

[ottoman]

So you come with a new design for a new bait. What would be the best way to get the most out of it without leaving to much money on the table? Is it getting a paten and make it yourself, or try selling the paten to a big company? Or just make a ton of them and try to sell them myself? Or go thru another company and have them mass produce them and hope the quality its loss in the transaction. I now that if it’s a good design eventually there will be nock offs which isn’t the biggest problem, but if some of these other company’s can do a mass production then there will be a lot of sales that I would miss out on. I’m not tiring to be the Trump of the bait world, but we all like money. Any feedback or links to other threads would be appreciated. Thanks

[Spike-A-Pike]

This subject has come a few times since I joined. There are a ton of ideas, but I haven't heard of anyone actually following through with the process. I don't think there is just one single, proven method.

The first thing I would do is gather as much documentation and design details and keep them secure.

Talk to a patent lawyer, you should be able to get the first hour free. You will need to find out about contracts with manufacturing companies to safe guard your ideas and design.

Limit discussions on your new bait to a very small circle. I think if you search "patents" you will find a lot of thing to think about... BUT REMEMBER, AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOUR ACTIONS WILL BE WHAT MAKE OR BREAK THE PROJECT.

[Smallie]

If you look at the Beaver, Chatterbait and Basstrix baits that have patents and are knocked off by everyone it doesn't seem like the time and money spent to patent a lure is worth it. And that is just the beginning. Enforcing the patent is another issue altogether.

I think you get your big bang in the first year and once everyone sees it is a good bait, the knockoffs kick in full force.

So, that leaves you with how to make a lot of baits in the first year. Evaluate your own capacity and take the full profit or share it with a big company and get a percentage of sales.

[carolinamike]

Smallie is right when he talks about the knock offs on other products and it's funny how patents work. I'm sure when Guy Eaker's Eaker Shaker hit the market a few years back no one would have thought that re-shaping the blade a little and giving it a different name that it would be such a hit (chatterbait). But that's the true nature of this business unfortunately. That's the reason that when we went from hand pour to mass producing, that we weren't really worried about coming out with the newest thing, but sticking with your basic reliable baits. The money's more reliable. Even with a patent all you have to make is a 20% change and you've broken no infringement laws. And when you think about it, 20% of a plastic bait is not really that much. I believe RI marketed the Sweet Beaver mainly to a lot of the pros, so it was pretty well known before it actually hit the national market, but they must have done something right because at one time, all the stores around here were having trouble getting them. So I feel like if you've done extensive testing and you know your're onto something, I personally feel that your best bet would be to mass produce the product. But you must have a very good marketing plan laid out. This is a big key in the plastic industry. And in all actuality this will be your biggest expense. Advertising in major fishing magazines is very expensive. But if you've got your marketing down and you've got enough supply for the demand, you should do well. Gary Yamamoto actually promotes their bait (Senko) as the most reproduced (copied) bait ever. If you're asking your question in general, hope I helped some. If you're seriously considering something like this, then PM me and I can give you a whole lot more details.

[BamaBassHunter]

There are a couple things you must consider first off ..Is if i produce it can i get enough of it on the market?

2nd A patent is at least a minium of close to 6 to 10 grand and can take up to 6 months or longer and you will still get knockoff's but your att.can send letters of cease and distist.

Then you will also have to figure just how much money your going to tie up getting enough baits out in the market and in inventory. Best advice i can give you is put a couple of the baits in a couple boxs and mail it to yourself and do Not open it. This will give you some rights to when you first produced the bait so if you show it to a large company they cannot steal your idea...

Hope this helps

Mo

[Florida Don]

Ottoman,

You have received a lot of good advise here and I strongly hope that you do not waste your time with a patent.

As pointed out, you have to enforce it and that endeavor would probably cost more money than it would to produce it.

I would suggest going to one of the professional bait manufacturer's (Like Mike at Carolina Baits) whom I assume is willing to work with you. Pay him a fair price, spend some money on advertising, take your profit and enjoy it. Whether it is designing another new lure or whatever.

I have an extensive manufacturing background and I know from experience that it is best to let the people who know the process and own the equipment do the job. You become a customer to them and can spend your time doing what you do best - in this case developing a lure.

If you enter an arrangement like this, remember to pay your bills on time and your manufacturer will do double back flips for you if necessary.

If sales isn't your forte, then I suggest you find a manufacturer's representative to sell your product. Sure you will have to pay a sales commission, but that is a good thing.

Here is the deal - I will place an order right now for $20 worth of them. If it costs more than $20, I wouldn't know how to use it. Let me know when it is on the market and how to pay you - seriously I want the first order.

Now that you got your first order, I wish you all the success.

Most of all, don't be afraid to succeed - if you truly believe in it - go for it - and please keep us informed.

[Delw]

Bama

the whole point of mailing yourself a bait is only so someone else can't patent it, anyone can make it they just wont be able to patent it. as you have already designed it and its not patentable, nor can they sure you or anyone else that is making that bait.

In my honest opinion I would say keep quiet about it. especially to your friends, make as many as you can and flood the market. that is the only way you can get it going .

it will take companies 2 months-1 year to tool up for a production run.

like mike says

when you want to get it on the market you have to basically have it everywhere. ebay sales or one website just isnt going to do it.

basically a media blitz.

[Mattlures]

Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong. None of those baits were patented. The beaver tried to after the fact along with the chatterbait. They have some other type of protection. I believe they are copy writted. That does give them some protection but only on what is actualy copy writted. The beaver, I think was the name and the Chatterbait was the shape of the blade. A true patent is worth getting if you can actualy get one. More than likely your idea is not new.

Also mailing a letter to yourself gives you NO PROTECTION. If you just do that than you have nothing . somebody can come up with the same idea later and sue you for infringing on thier patent. You have to show due dilligence with your idea. You have to document it. You have to go through the process of obtaining a patent and prove it.

The best advise you will ever hear from anybody about fishing lures and patents is ths...... You All pay close attention now

DONT LISTEN TO WHAT ANYBODY ON A MESSAGE BOARD TELLS YOU ABOUT PATENTS BECAUSE THEY ARE ALMOST ALWAYS WRONG. If you are serious contact a patent attorney. they dont cost much for a consultation and they will give you CORRECT info.

now the truth of the matter is everybody has some great idea for a new lure. We all think we should get it patented and we all believe it is a great design and we could sell a ton of them. The truth is we are usualy wrong. Either the design has flaws or its not economic to produce or it simply doesnt sell like we were so sure it would. Most bait ideas are alredy patented but there are other forms of protection. They just arent as protective.

The truth is there is no real answer to your questions without knowing what your design is. Is it realy that good? if so then it is worth investing in. either by patent and or the start up fees for mass production(wich aint cheap either) If it isnt as good as you think youl loos youre butt if you dump a lot of money in it.

Here is what I would do If I KNEW without any doubt that I had the next big thing. I would apply for pattent and start producing the bait myself. I would also be ready in an instant to mass produce if it took off. I would market the heck out of it.

Now if I wasnt so sure that it realy is that great after all, I would produce it myself and save evry dime to get set up for mass production. If your bait somehow miraculously went big time and you could place an order for 50,000 -250,000 units and get them in a month or two you would beat all the theives waiting to knock you off.

[earthworm77]

Those baits are Trademarked, likely the names, not copy written as that applies mainly to printed works. Although I do believe that the Chatterbait may have applied for a patent. I remember seeing their threatening letters to guys I know.

[hammer1]

I have faced that dilemma too-I designed a unique looking drop-shot bait that is really outfishing everything else-especially smallies, I heard a patent costs a lot and all someone has to do is change it slightly sg. Senkoaka sinko sink worm etc.... then if someone knocks it off, you need big bucks to fight in court, so I'm still hand pouring it -mine is still the original.

[Mattlures]

Copywrites are not only for printed word. They protect original artwork including original sculptures.

One of the biggest mythes/lies that I see sooooo many guys tell is you cant pattent nature. who ever is saying this bull needs to stop now!!! No you cant make a mold of a frog and pattent it, but you can carve your own frog and protect it with some form of trademark, copywrite, or patent depending on what the "frog" does. You can only not patent an EXACT form of nature. This prety much NEVER aplies to baits. The first original worm could have been patented. The patent could have been made to prtect the plastic worm was made of. Anybody else would have been infringing unless their worms were made of a diferent material. You can protect just about anything that is original. Some people assume an intire bait is protected and this is rarly the case. Usualy its a very specific feature.

[Florida Don]

I happen to know a little about patents from my working life.

Ottoman could get a patent pending for a "design patent". You then have IIRC 1 year to go to the next step.

This process can be done on your own for a minimal investment. It used to be around $75 but I am sure that has changed as it has been a few years.

However, what I DO KNOW - is that regardless of the patent, it is up to the patent owner to enforce the patent. Some people seem to think the US Government does this for you - WRONG!

Here is the link to the Patent Office - all the info one needs they should be able to find there. http://www.uspto.gov/

[ottoman]

Folks thanks for the feedback, I think I have to re read the tread a couple more times, my head is still spinning. I will talk to a paten lawyer hopefully the first hour is free and I will find out how much and what it takes. Once I find that out I will report back on the info so we all will now what is involved for a paten, it can

[jmik26]

We went through a similar thing and our heads were spinning from all the information. Only suggestions that I can offer are:

1. Call some lawyers and get an idea on what everything will cost. Then figure out how many lures you will have to make to break even. You might be surprised to find out you have to make and SELL 20000 baits to pay for a patent.

2. If it is a simple design to drop into some plaster and produce, think twice about spending all the money on a patent.

3. If it is a simple design make sure there is some type of secret formula, rigging concept, pouring process, or paint job, etc.. that you are sure people won't figure out. This could elminate the majority of the crowd.

4. Pay the CNC guys the extra money so you hold the rights on the design (get it in writing) so everybody doesn't have one. Maybe even have a local CNC guy cut the mold.

5. If the lure works better then everything, get into some tournaments, win and put the money towards a patent. It will also make for a great story while marketing your bait....

Good luck...Jeff

[james bradshaw]

If your lure is something way different then anything else on the market, or the lure has some special feature that sets it apart from all other lures and that special feature is what makes it the greatest bait ever, then i would look at a patten. The biggest wall that you will cross is getting your lure the recognition that you need to sell huge numbers of baits. You usually have to buy your way in, or win some big Tournaments! Sometimes the lure you want to make has features that wont allow you to mass produce the bait and or produce it cheap enough. A lot of baits on the market today are made with few complicated features to keep the machining time down on the mold and to reduce the complexity of the tool thus reducing manufacturing time and cost. I would suggest you do some home work before moving to far with the project.

If you find that you want someone else to make your baits for you then give us a call.

Good luck!

James

[longhorn]

To be a real sensation some big tournaments would have to be won with it first to establish it's worth. So your first step would be to position yourself to make the contacts and make the baits available to some good Pros to make that happen. Just my opinion.