Skeeter Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 radu, I have been interested in the Japanese tackle. I have been researching what is offered in Japan since May of this year. After reading your response on the other post on the Koi, I wanted to ask you some questions about the Conquest. I am thinking about purchasing a Conquest 100. I want to use it for large crankbaits. I want the 100 because it is lighter than the 200. Do you think this would be a good choice? I have just purchased a Scorpion 1000. It is a beautiful reel. I have not had the chance to use it yet, but I can't wait to try it. The reason that the U.S. market does not have the same high end Shimano and Diawa reels is because Shimano and Diawa choose not export them to the U.S. I really don't know why. The TD-X, TD-Z from Diawa, and the Calais, Chronarch MG, and some of the Calcutta reels from Shimano here in the U.S. are certainly not cheap. They sell for around 350 USD. There are some fishermen in this country that pay to get the reels from Japan imported to them, just like I did with my Scorpion. They can be gotten, but I think that one thing that scares U.S. fishermen is the availability of parts and finding someone to work on them if needed. I am lucky, I work on my own reels, but many people do not. Maintenance on Japanese reels must be done more frequently than with U.S. versions. But I do think that the quality of the Diawa TD reels could be much better. They just aren't very tough, and the paint and finish comes off with very little use. They are not very smooth either. I liked the Metanium XT reels from Shimano, but the finish comes off of them also. That was the main reason that I did not buy one. The parts for the U.S. version of the Chronarch are interchangable with the XT. That was one good point. The spools in U.S. reels are starting to get better. But they have a long way to go. The spools in the Japanese reels are much more advanced. Even though the rods made in Japan are beautiful, I still think that they are priced way too high. There are alot of real good quality rods here in the U.S. at a much lower price. You just don't need Titanium Ceramic guides on a boron rod to catch bass. When we catch a bass here, the fish goes from the water and into the boat NOW!!!! We don't play with them. That fish will never have time to build up heat on the line from playing with them. Here in the U.S. we have much larger and many more bodies of water to choose from with alot of tough types of cover to fish. Our equipment must be tough to put up with demanding and agressive way that most of us fish. Most bass fishermen here in the U.S. fish at least once a week. They fish 8 hours or more each time out. Since conditions change from one lake to the next then most fishermen have 4 to 10 rods on the deck of their boat while they are searching for fish. It would just be way to expensive to do this at 350 dollars a rod and 300 or more for a reel. Anyway, what would be your suggestion on the Conquest, 100 or 200? Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celticav Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 Hey Skeeter, I own a Shimano Scorpion too! Great reel, like a Curado but alot smoother. The thing with the japanese anglers and market over there is that bass fishing is a luxury hobby to them, mostly only the rich can afford it... I am basing this from what I read. Maybe some of our japanese members can enlighten us on the attitude for bass angling from the general population, JIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radu Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Skeeter, Sorry for taking so long to answer back, I didn??t check the other forums as well. I did it today, almost by mistake, and I found your post.??As you understand, I am still new to this site. About the Calcutta reel you were saying, believe me I had the same problem to solve when I decided to buy one. Calcutta is a reel made especially for heavy crankbaits. First of all, let me give you some data. The differences and similarities between 100 and 200 are as following, considering the Shimano 2003 Official catalog (I use the Japanese-European measurements): 100 ?C gear 5.8, drag 4N/kg, weight 225 grams, max 100 meters capacity for 17lb line 200 - gear 5, drag 5N/kg, weight 265 grams, 110 meters capacity for 20lb line 1. Now when considering what to choose from, it is very important to take into consideration the rods you will use with the reel. The 100 is light, and probably 200 seems a bit heavier. I have a 201 and I put on it 16 lb line. And believe me, is feels light enough to fish it about 8 to 10 hours on a session. I have used the reel both with Daiko rods (substantially heavy rods, as I wanted to throw some heavy bagleys. I use the Agresion model in 2 variants, for 12 lb and 20 lb test line, again, both rods heavy ones). I changed the rods after that and I used a Daiwa Battler, a very very light model made for test line 8lb. I achieved very good balances with all 3 rods and I was really impressed with the castability and the distances achieved. 201 has very good, smooth and nice retrieve, and althouth it has a knob to set the brake (SVS) in very small increments, I was using minimum brake setting (one transparent ring on and the other 2 off) with a quite loose knob setting. In parallel the same day I was using the Scorpion 1000, the red wine colored one. The difference was even more obvious than when fishing the 2 reels in separate fishing sessions. And when you think, I used to consider the Scorpion a very good reel! I mean, it is good, but in my opinion no match for the 201. So if I were you I wouldn??t worry about the balance to achieve even when using the reel with different rods. It is true, when I was testing the balance home, before using the reel, it felt slightly heavy on the rod, and it would have felt much better with the 100, I suppose. But I was not casting, just trying it on the rod in my kitchen, and then balancing it here and there. On the water, I could not tell the difference, and I was able to fish all day without problem. No birdnest, the line leaves very nice the spool, you need very little thumb control on the spool on casting (as contrary to the Scorpion, where I must fish with more thumb control and more brake setting for the same lure, I guess this is what makes a great reel). I was able to throw deep diving cranks, some shallow shad raps, vibration lures, minnows, spoons and worms, although I had previously thought that small lures wouldn??t cast well. I believe that the weight difference you might gain with the 100 instead of 200 (negligible in my opinion) doesn??t offset the advantages of 200: better drag, especially if you want to boat the fish fast as you were telling me, better line capacity, especially if you want to use stronger line again to drag the fish from the weeds and boat it fast, bigger gears. The rest is the same, like ball bearings, price, etc. I would go for 200, especially if there is a chance that you may fall upon some bad ass bass weighting more than the usual and putting on a stronger fight. After using the Calcutta, it??s just that Scorpion seems so outperformed??fortunately, you will understand what I mean after using it. I agree, the high end reels from Japan are not cheap. But the difference here is that when Japanese go to a shop to buy a new reel (and so do all my friends here, normal weekend anglers, I am not talking professionals here), they are not even looking at reels under 250 usd. I guess this is what makes the meaning of ??average buyer??. Here Scorpion 1000 is regarded as a low-middle class reel, although I think that it has some very nice characteristics for the price. It is rare for a reel selling at 150 usd here to have ultra light wiffle spool, nice braking system, 4 kg of drag and weights 230 grams only. I think this reel landed on the market ??by mistake?? (the same with the new Daiwa Luvias): because of the economic slump here, the prices receded and Shimano pushed on the market this reel with improved characteristics and reduced price. Anyway it is a great reel for the money. I believe in the baitcasting reels market, Daiwa is better than Shimano, in terms of improved drag, casting control (the MAGforce V is absolutely incredible on TD Zs), antirust treated ball bearings (meaning longer life for the reel, and less maintenance), while the rolls change when talking spinning reels market where Shimano is better with the Twinpower and of course Stella. And even at lower levels, with Ultegra and so on. I personally love the Metanium but the magnesium alloy discourages me, as I often fish in backish waters and Metanium is not very resistant to salt. Also, its castability is lower than Scorpions??s. Good sales point is the very light weight. And the XT is inferior to the MG, but probably MG doesn??t exist on the US market. About the reels, usually Japanese anglers prefer more delicate tackle, the usual line test is 8 lb and accordingly the rods will follow and adapt, becoming lighter, more flexible, hence the need for improved guides. Also, many anglers here prefer using braid line for bass. Besides the need for better rings, I guess the rest is just market trend. But when fishing with 8 lb line and playing the fish (here, we don??t ??hop in?? the fish, as you were telling me, unless someone is fishing tournaments where the time is money), there is the need for better rings. The Japanese rods are good rods. You would probably be surprised to find out that the bass tackle is not the most expensive one here. And I am not talking tackle for tuna, where you must spend at least 1300 usd only for the rod and reel, let alone the lures (60 usd apiece). There is a fishing style called ??ayu fishing??, a traditional Japanese fishing style, where you attach a live ayu fish similar to a sardine to the hook and underneath you tie another special treble. When the ayu male in the water senses the treat (the hooked fish you are placing in his territory), it will come to attack it and then you lift the rod and hook the fish with the underneath treble. This is a very famous and old Japanese fishing style and the tackle used is rods 30 feet long (10 meters, sometimes more). These rods weight 200 grams (imagine, 30 feet long rods weighting 200 g, sometimes even less!) and cost between 2.000 and 4000 usd apiece. These rods are what Formula1 cars are to the mass production cars, they incorporate advanced technology that usually goes to the market and is being mass produced in normal rods after some 4-5 years. Hence the price. Anyway, go for Conquest 200, in my opinion. Now CELTICAV, First talking about ??bass fishing is a luxury hobby to them, mostly only the rich can afford it????I think you are unfair and misinformed. First, talking about ??the rich?? in Japan is a nonsense, since it is a country where the social structure is given mostly by some 90% of the population making the middle class and living by very similar standards. There are no ??rich?? in Japan and I challenge whatever you may have read on the subject. Second, fishing and bass fishing are a hobby of course, unless you are fishing at a professional level and making a living out of it. About the ??luxury hobby?? again I am not sure. I think I posted enough to give you an image of the Japanese tackle market. I am not a rich person, and still I am fishing here bass and tuna and whatever in between, and so do all the anglers here, unless someone is, say, preoccupied with only fishing one kind. But unfortunately the winters here are very cold and rainy, therefore fishing bass in not an option in most of the cases. Besides, the bass action drops in the winter, as you know. Therefore, during winter I fish seabass from shore, I deep jig for oilfish and occasionally I go for Spanish mackerel. About the bass??what to say, Japan has seen too much of it, unfortunately. Here everyone is crazy about bass fishing (I read an article stating that the bass fishing craze happened because of the Japaneses love of everything coming from US, statement which I find completely outdated, so typical and expected upon, and if you thing that the author is a pro baser!). The truth is that a smart Japanese businessman brought the bass to Japan in 1927 (previous to that it didn??t exist in Japan, this is probably the reason for such an amazing variety of other species here) and since then it has been spreading like pest. No matter how much I like fishing the bass and how exciting it is, my opinion is that this was a ecological disaster for the local fish fauna (some prefer to refer to it as an accident, obviously euphemistical). The fish proved out to be so voracious, that it really started threatening the very survival of many other species in the rivers, not to mention the damage done to the local hospitality industry, which used to draw many of its delicatessens out of the surrounding rivers (we don??t eat the bass, actually the only persons eating bass in Japan were the American army stationed after the WW2). The prospects were so terrifying that the government had to take measured to ??encounter the spread??, since no one could ever dream of completely exterminating the bass. I don??t know whether government money has been paid for bass captures and I personally don??t believe it ?CI wish it were true, just another way to make money for the tackle!- (besides the statements made in many bass magazines and generally in many fishing magazines always left me perplex, it looks like some pros are really not able to raise themselves to the level of a nature understanding person and remain always simply fish catchers). And I think the excitement offered by the bass fishing replaced any trace of government initiative that might have existed, since I am sure the local anglers hooked the heck out of the bass long before the government takes any large scale initiative! Politics or not, the word ??bass?? raises the level of adrenaline in the fishermen here in Japan to the red long before you finish spelling the very word! I think the reason that bass fishing is so popular in Japan resides in its extreme excitement and not some dry government policies, and whoever thinks different doesn??t know what bass fishing is like. The reason is because it offers excitement as few other fishing styles do and not because all Japanese people have patriotically made a pact to exterminate the bass because the levels of flathead and smelt in the sushi shops around Japan have gone historically low because of the bass appetite. However, any ecologically minded person must keep a reasonable and logical balance in his statements, no matter how much he likes fishing bass. (Sorry, I was just angry on some US pro basser writing nonsenses about bass fishing in Japan, an article I read the other day) One industry that has truly benefited from the bass spreading was the tackle industry. Since bass fishing is one of the most popular kind of fishing here (and it had a heavy competition from other types, including the fly fishing due to the multitude of the mountain streams filled with trout and sea fishing with infinite possibilities, on or off shore), the tackle companies were only very happy to jump in. The result is huge prices for the bass tackle (comparing to US, at least, but again one must take into consideration the difference in money earnings too, so that the ratio price/earnings is the same, probably). Again, sorry for the space taken here. Regards, Radu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted December 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 radu, Thanks for the reply. After reading your opinion, I will take a harder look at the 200. I will be using it on a 7 ft. medium heavy graphite rod. I bought a Scorpion 1000 to check the Japanese market of fishing equipment. I had read so much about the reel and many Japanese and American anglers have praised the casting abilities of the reel for alot of different fishing application and techniques. I saw a Calcutta 200 GT at a Bass Pro Shop near my home. I was really impressed with the reel. We have the Chronarch MG here in the states. It was extremely light. But I want to see how magneseum holds up as a material to make reels out of. I know about the saltwater thing, but I want to watch and see if it strong enough to last for years. I just can't get into the Diawa thing. I have just seen the finish come off of their TD models after only a year of use. It may not affect the way the reel works, but for $350 I want it to stay nice looking. I really feel that the quality is there in the Conquest. I think that if I take good care of the reel, it will last a lifetime. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radu Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Skeeter, i understand your feelings towards Daiwa's TD reels. You see, the problem is as following: at the moment, i believe that Daiwa's MagForce V magnetic brake system used on TD's is far better than Shimano's SVS or centrifugal braking system, not to mention they are equipped with superior tournament multiwasher drag. (contrary, Calcutta has better gears and smoother "reving"). And the smaller the lure it gets, the farther you can cast with a magnetic braking system. With small lures (i am talking 1/16-1/4 and up to 1/2oz) the brake settings become more difficult to adjust and consequently achieving the optimal setting is very difficult with SVS, which is defined by "rougher" settings playing with the braking rings. On the contrary, the magnetic system, although it requires some setting as well, can allow you to achieve a more profficient setting without the trial and error of SVS (and the backlashes this process involves). Therefore, i believe that TD Z's are suitable for small lures (along with Daiwa Liberty Pixy, used for lures under 1/16 oz). Besides, TD Zs are designed for small test lines up to 8 lb (TD Z 105H, HL and Palming Left) and up to 12 lb (103 H, HL, ML). For big lures, the MAGV doesn't add so much an advantage, most of us cast with SVS at minimum brake settings provided they have educated thumbs. It is the small things where TD is good at. About the paint, i don't know, but it depends also on how each one uses and cares for the reel (i mean, bumping it here and there and alike). I am not sure whether the paint would simply scorch and fall down from a 400 usd reel just like that. Magnesium should be ok wth fresh water, i don't know the life span though, the reel is still quite new. Here Daiwas have all a life guaranty so i suppose there are parts very easily available. And so should be the case in US as well. I am thinking of a TD Z 103 or 105 for Christmas, to tell you the truth...it my Santa Claus wife would indulge, that is! regards, Radu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted December 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 OK, I understand what you mean by playing with the brake rings. You are right. It can be a real pain, especially if you have to remove the cover everytime you need to adjust them. That was one of the reasons I selected the Scorpion 1000. The 4X4SVS is really nice. From what I have read the Mag Force V is the best. The 4X4 SVS and the Flying ARM IVCB type of braking systems are the next best. These two braking systems are about even. But for quick adjustments I use the centrifugal brake. The Flying ARM IVCB is the same type found on the EON's. I have a 3600SE Eon and I like it. It is currently what I am throwing my crankbaits with now. It is an excellent reel for pitching also. Have you tried the EON with the Infini Spool? I would like to try one. The only problem that I have with the Eon is the heavy spool. The ring that selects the number of brake arms can move after some heavy casting and sometimes disable another brake. But I think that we all have to understand that these high performance reels that have very free spools will all need adjusting during the day as the wind speed changes and lure weight changes. It is the price you pay to obtain maximum performance regardless what reel you buy. With the 4X4 SVS I can just move a dial setting. With my Eon I use the centrifugal brake for quickly reseting for minor adjustments. I hope Santa brings you the Diawa for Christmas. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radu Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Skeeter, Thank you for your wishes...you know what? i'll bring my wife here and make her read the posts...hopefully, this would help! LOL you are so right about the SVS adjusting process. It is difficult and uncomfortable to remove the cover every time you want to reset the settings. Calcutta has brought some improvement in the field, by putting more clicks on the the spool knob and on the star drag knob. but you still have to unscrew the cap and do everything manually. fortunately, with Calcutta i set 2 rings on and the rest is done with the outside knob, so that all day long i don't modify the rings. This is where Scorpion has the big advantage. Also, Scorpion's wiffle ultralight spool is awsome. I haven't used EONs but i heard that SX series and Eon PRO have peaky settings hard to achieve when you only fish during weekends. As my friend put it, "Eon's super heavy spool spins free for more than 1 min, meaning you'll see Gozzilla birdsnests, or don't cast at all with tight brakes" The point is that we should move towards making fishing more fun. I don't want to worry about my settings and i would like to focus on my fish when fishing. Also, these new and advanced reels have all of us transformed in engineers and mechanics: you must be able to oil your reels, flush the bearings, replace them if needed, replace parts, do and unto the reel after every fishing trip...before i wasn't able to oil even my bicycle's chain and now i can do and undo the Scorpion almost with my eyes closed LOL...not to mention the all the reading and stuff...maybe we somewhere on the way lost control and took the wrong route? my grandfather was catching pikes in Eastern Europe with fiber glass and iron rings rods (my grandma's broomstick looked much better, i assure you) and with "made in ussr" rusting spinning reels which looked exactly like their tanks: square and ugly. And he was successful at it. noone worried at the time about braking systems, anti rust ball bearings, wiffle spools, drags, rocket fuel, magnezium made chassis and air light metal and stuff...we become more addicted to technology and transformed fishing into something else. By the way...i hear more and more the gossip that that Daiwa will show in the market a new TD reel in the spring. regards, Radu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Splash Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 radu- Thankyou for pointing out the Bass is really an alien pest in your country. The same thing is hapening here, Some ill informed people are spreading bass throughout lower B.C., dispite the threat of large fines and environmentel damage. Here it is illegal to use live fish as bait to stop the spread of unwanted species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted December 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 radu, You are correct. We have to almost be engineers to understand these new reels. But that for me is part of the fun. I will admit that when I was doing all of this reading on Shimano and Diawa Japanese reels, my head was spinning. There is just ALOT of information on them. I have always worked on my own reels. I couldn't see paying someone to clean and oil them. And if I take care of my own equipment, then I know that it is done right. I was really amazed to see that there is such a big difference between the reels made in Japan and the ones made here in the US. The only American reel company that has anything close is Quantum with its ACS System. My son has one and I love using the reel. It throws as far as my EON. It is easier to set, and I have less trouble with it. Ambassador has an EON called the Sport. It has a Japanese spool in it. They call it the Infini Spool. It appears to be a drilled light spool. It looks to me like a Diawa type spool. I was just wondering if you have ever tried one. I would like to find out about this. Jun said that the regular spool in the EON is heavy and causes the huge birds nests. That guy knows too much. It was his site that got me started on all of this. I am having alot of fun with it. It has gotten cold here in North Carolina. I still haven't had a chance to use my Scorpion. But I have put the reel on a rod and have caught alot of big fish while sitting in my chair in the living room. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celticav Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Skeeter, I have two low-profile Eons and I.M.O. they are the best reels I have, I greatly prefer them over the Shimanos. They are a long distance reel and the planetary gearing makes them extremely strong, the drag is super smooth contained in a small, light package and they are a pleasure to use. I got mine for about $35 apeiece off ebay and they have been one of the best fishing purchases I have ever made, JIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted December 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Celticav, I like my EON alot also. I have a 3600SE. I have used this reel since March of this year. Wal Mart had them on close out for $50 and I bought one. I have mine set pretty loose. I can send my crankbaits flying long distances with it than with any other reel that I have used. The Scorpion is my first Shimano. Time will tell. If you tear your EON apart, be sure to pay CLOSE ATTENTION on how the casing and drag washers are put together where the Planetary gears are. It can get hairy. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radu Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 the bass problem is a long, old and big problem in Japan. the bass stocking had a very negative effect on the local species. because the local species were not predators, there was no "fish eat fish" process of natural selection taking place in the japanese waters, therefore there was no natural adaptation to survival to predators. the local species were vegetation eating species, they were very fragile and delicate species and it very easy to destroy the balance. the result was a tragedy. now in the waters populated with bass, nothing breeds except from carp (the clearest exemple is the 1st and 2nd biggest sweetwater lakes in Japan, Biwa next to Osaka and Kasumigaura next to Tokyo). There are only 2 kinds of fishermen going there: bass and carp fishermen. nothing else exists in between. and the carp exists there because it is artificially breeded and released in these waters, as these lakes are used for carp farming. many say that this whole thing against the bass in Japan was created because of the "islandeers mentality" of the japanese people (kind of "we don't like anything with foreign origin"). like "we want japanese fish only in the japanese waters"...it is a big mistake to think like that and one should consider the serious problems that irrational stocking with predators has over the local species, especially when there is no natural adaptation to survival against these predators. The Japanese are very conscious and practice in the vast majority the "catch and release", and always suggestions that this practice should stop for bass has been wrongly in my opinion encountered with suspicion and "animal rights abuse" claims from different ecological groups. Catch and release should not be practiced for bass, i believe, in Japan. anyway, the harm cannot be undone, there is no way to extinct the bass anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF Posted March 1, 2007 Report Share Posted March 1, 2007 Skeeter, Just use a cane pole..Its works great and your never have to fix it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted March 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 It was wild when I saw this post. It has been awhile. I am still throwing the same reels. I have 3 Scorpions and the same EON. I gave all of my Lews, Diawas and Quantums to my sons. I couldn't be happier with the Scorpions. They are still working perfectly. Rookie... cane poles break too. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
