mossy maker Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I'm working on a crank that is giving me trouble. Been doing a lot of reading and searching tonight but I guess I have not typed in the right search. I've got a bass crank that does alright at a slow retrieve and then will roll to the lures right. My lip is at about a 10 to 15 degree angle, and the line tie is 5/8" down a 1 5/16" lip. The bait is cedar and is 2 7/8" long and has a little weight in the belly. No matter how much "tuning" I do the result is the same. Everything looks symetrical. I was thinking of trying to shave one side of the circuit board lip a little, but was unsure which side to trim, the roll to side or the roll away from side. Any help would be appreciated. mossy maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Bending the eye to the side should help correct any symmetry and alignment problems, but I notice that you haven't got much eye to play with. I don't really want to commit to saying which side of the lip should be shaved, but my guess would be the right. Much information is missing to totally understand what is going on. The pic is clipped, not showing the full length. Also a plan view of the lip would help a lot. If the lure is rolling over this easily, it is obviously very close to instability. There are two instabilities that could play. The first is when the lip length below the eye is too long. The lure will swim very nose down but will not dive much. The solution would be to move the eye closer to the end of the lip or shorten the lip by a millimeter or two. The second instability is concerned with width. If you fall foul of this condition, the lure will rotate onto its side and swim at an angle to the retrieve. In this case the lip is too wide, shaving the sides will solve this problem. Looking at the length of the lip, it is more likely to be the first problem, so shaving a 30 thou' off the length should show improvement. I am currently exploring both these instabilities with lots of prototypes, each slightly wider or longer, to find the limits. But I am using a steep 60deg angled lip, as opposed to your diving lip. Post a pic of the lip shape, more people will then be able to give an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy maker Posted March 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Here is another picture. Thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 The lip does not look excessively wide. Looking at the area of lip in front of the eye and the body size, it could be getting a bit close to the long lip instability, for want of a better description. Unless anyone comes up with a non-evasive solution to try first, my answer is to snip a millimeter at a time off the end of the lip. TEST the lure after each cut. The rounded lip is not helping your case (a humble opinion of mine). I think the lure would be more stable with a flat lip. Try it next time around and compare the two. It would be interesting to hear other opinions. It is a relevant subject, as it affects stability of the lure (or not!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofish Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 The rule which applies here is the following: if the lure rolls to the right, it either means that the right side of the lip is bigger than the left side, or the two parts are equal but the lip has a slight angle to the right. It also might mean that the lip is glued a little bit to the right (so not in perfect symetry with the body), but I don't think this would be the case.The bigger the lip, the more the lack of symetry of the lip will show up while the lure is in action. I think V-man is perfectly right. If you cannot solve your problem by bending the tow eye to the right, then you will have to shave the lip. Do as he says, cut a little bit all around (trying to perfect the symetry) then try the lure in water, and if not satisfied, shave more, etc. If the lip has an angle to one side, there is not much to be improved as rolling is concerned. My impression ( from the second picture I cannot be sure about) is that the left side of the lip is bigger than the right side, so the lure would have to roll to the left. Perhaps you should check if the lip has an angle to the right side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy maker Posted March 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Thanks guys, I'll do some playing around with it. mossy maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflures Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 I beleive V-man and rofish have you on the right track. Just wanted to add that the bait looks great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Sorry Mossy, forgot to mention that the bait looks the business. I hope you get it sorted out soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captsully18 Posted March 11, 2008 Report Share Posted March 11, 2008 Mossy, you have a great looking bait there. Vodkaman seems to have you on line to straighten out your problem. I am not sure if I am seeing the lip right, or if my old eyes are off a bit, but from the last view you put up it looks as though the curve of the lip starts a bit higher on the baits left side than on the other. If I am seeing this right, then you have more lip area on the left side which will make the bait run off to your right. Like I said, it could be my eyes, but it might be worth checking. Keep up the good work David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 I'd expect a bait that size to weigh around 1/2 oz. You said it had "a little" ballast. Maybe "a little more" would help to settle down the action and make it more predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossy maker Posted March 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 Thanks for everyones help. I played with it some more last night. I shaved, clipped, filed, and played with wieghts. I wieghed the lure on a small digital kitchen scale just to see and it came in at 1/2 oz on the nose. I never did get it to behave. Although not visible to a casual glance, my lip slot must be at a slight angle. I am making a new body and am going to try again. As I have said here before, I usually learn more from my failures than my successes. Thanks again for the help. It may not have saved me this time but I'm sure it will be useful in the future. mossy maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 12, 2008 Report Share Posted March 12, 2008 You might be able to salvage the lure by wrapping some fly tieing lead wire around the shank of the front treble. It may change the action, but it may move the center of gravity far enough down to dampen the instability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted March 13, 2008 Report Share Posted March 13, 2008 Mossy, Here is the deal... first when you give the measurment of the line tie replacement, measure from the nose of the lure to the line tie. Not the full length of the lip. The reason is, because it does not matter how much lip is in the slot. The crucial measurement is from the nose to the line tie. The line tie appears to be in the center of the lip. That is fine to start with. Next the lip must be square with the body. It must be at a right angle with the belly hook hanger. If the lip is square and it starts to spin then it is due to not enough weight in the belly. Judging from the size of the lure and assuming that the bait is made of balsa then I would start with 1/4 oz. of lead and work up. If your lip is not right then cut it out and redo it. If the weight is not right then drill it out and redo it. In other words you will have to sacrifice this lure to the R&D gods. Anyone that is any good at making crankbaits has done it. I know that you spent alot of time on it... but..... welcome to crankbait making. Beat on this one bait untill you get it right. Then the next ones will fall into place. Lip shaving is not your answer. Trust me. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KcDano Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 Asymmetrical will never work. Good eye hazmail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 15, 2008 Report Share Posted March 15, 2008 If I were you, I'd prinit out Pete's photo, scale it down to the actual lure size, and use it as a guide in shaving the lip. Man, making lipped cranks looks like it's a bear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 When aligning lips, I use parallel lines as a guide. A tile pattern on the wall or floor, a clothes rack, anything that has parallel lines with equal distance between them. I hold the lure, lip up, in front of my face. Close one eye and align the lure against a tile edge. I then adjust the distance from my eye to the lure, until the edge of the lip lines uo with the next tile. By refocussing your eye, you can see whether the lip is off centre. I then stand at the edge of a mat etc. Hold the lure perpendicular of 90 degrees to the mat edge. Lining the lip bottom to the edge of the mat will reveal any square alignment problems for square and fan shaped lips. Works for me, quick, reliable and costs nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Or you could buy one of these for $19.99 Amazing Cool Lip Shavers *****Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Booooo!!!!!!! Pete, That's too funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 I'm a bad boy, I know, but I just could not help myself, my "Mouse" done it. pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 It's 5:45 am here in Los Angeles, and I've been up for a couple of hours now. That was just what I needed, along with another cup of coffee. Normally I'm driving to a lake with my boat right about now, but my boat and trailer got totaled by a lady hit and run driver on the way home from a like two weeks ago, so I'm housebound until I get a new boat next week. Thanks for the laugh. If you've got a minute, go to the address I'm including, and see what a friend of mine caught. I hope it works. The website is huddlestondeluxe - Home - HuddlestonDeluxe,swimbaits,big baits The angler is Butch Brown. Take a look at the largemouth he caught recently. He is a very accomplished trophy bass guy, so, when he gets excited, you know it's special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike-A-Pike Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 "Requires only one AA battery and is small enough to fit into almost any purse or handbag, The Femini Hair Remover shavers also come with a small fine bristled brush that makes clean up a breeze!" I fear this would promote women sitting around using their shavers in public places, like pickup bars, public transportation, and movie theaters, just to name a few... It almost looks like it could serve as a dual purpose fish scaler/cleaner. So, you could barrow it now and then to clean a few fish and she'd never know (for sure) that you used it. They need a warning about using this gadget and drinking hard spirits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Bruce, Is that the voice of experience from the thong - master??? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike-A-Pike Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 Craig, Ask Pete (aka: hazmail), he provided the link. I looked at the thing and I wouldn't use it to groom my cocker spaniel's pads. It looks like a nasty little devise capable of cutting large stands of timber. As for the title of "Thong Master", you must have known me as a single, young Marine that went to a place called the "the Body Shop". I became known for sticking $1.00 bills in the gal's thongs. Nothing wrong with a sharply, firm, well tanned thong. Go find a few and you'll see what I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted March 16, 2008 Report Share Posted March 16, 2008 This is what we call thongs here, we stick our feet into them, NOT dollar bills- they only cost dollar anyway. pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
