Jointed Lipless Swimbait

[.dsaavedra.]

could someone please enlighten me on how to make a jointed lipless swimbait out of wood. i have a few ideas of my own, but i have not tested them and i would like to incorperate some proven information into designing my lure.

first thing i need to know is how does your lure get action when there is no lip? does there need to be a flat spot on the head like on a lipless crankbait? what kinds of head designs will give you action.

how can i do the joints? i have see several methods that i might try, these include using a nail on one half that goes thru screw eyes on the other half. another is just connecting screw eyes on both sides. i dont like these two ideas because i have had screw eyes pull out. i was thinking of running two or three bead chains thru the lure (similar to lucky craft live series). how do you all make joints?

thanks in advance!

[mark poulson]

DVS,

I make lipless swimbaits, but I'm no expert.

Try the search feature. Try lipless swimbaits, jointed baits, hinges, any other key ideas you might have.

I personally have used screw eyes, twisted stainless steel wire, cotter pins, and use the hinge pin idea with stainless steel wire for hinge pins.

There are a lot of different ways to do it, and I can't really talk about the others because I haven't tried them all.

Do the search, read that stuff, and then try a bait or two.

As for flat sided baits, I have made both flat sided and round sided baits that swim, and a few that don't. It's voodoo to me why some work and some don't.

I just copy stuff that I know works, and go from there.

[MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF]

Ask Dave!! DAVE EXPLAIN TO THIS GUY HOW IT WORKS!!

I just carved mine and holy crap BATMAN!!! IT WORKED!!

VODKAMAN!!!! HELP!!!

[.dsaavedra.]

Ask Dave!! DAVE EXPLAIN TO THIS GUY HOW IT WORKS!!

I just carved mine and holy crap BATMAN!!! IT WORKED!!

VODKAMAN!!!! HELP!!!

yes vodkaman, please do help!

[Vodkaman]

Very sorry guys. This is one of the areas of hard bait theory that I have not got around to testing. Maybe later this year.

I am fairly convinced that vortices are generated across the head, above the tow eye, but what makes a good head (from a vortex point of view) I cannot help.

[mark poulson]

I guess good head is a matter of opinion......from a vortex point of view, of course.

Dave,

I'm disappointed. I was really looking forward to hearing from you why lure shapes work the way they do.

As I said, I've copied shapes of lures that work, changed the shapes a little and gotten good results, and made my own shapes, some of which worked and some didn't.

For me, the most important thing is having really loose joints. If there's any resistance, you lose all slow retrieve action.

And sometimes the lure just won't swim, period. I've got a few twitch baits that became twitch baits because they don't swim. But they move well when twitched, or fished like a spook.

So I'm just guessing when I make a lure. Hopefully, an educated guess based on past experience, but a guess, none the less.

[captsully18]

dsv, I would reccomend that you go with some of your ideas. Maybe you can come up with something that the rest of us can copy . Seriously, there have been several different methods of hinges discussed here. I have been using screw eyes and bicycle spokes for pins and had excellent results. The spokes are stainless and heavier than the stainless wire I had been using. Makes it much easier to take a hinge apart if you need to, and yes I have. As for what makes action and what doesn't, I still stick with my theory that weight in the head makes a bait swim well. I have tried weight in first and second sections, weight in all three ( the baits I make have three sections) and weight in only the head. I feel that as long as you have the largest amount of weight in the head the bait will swim best. I guess that is because it will move side to side on the retrieve just as a sinker does and will wag the rest of bait. JMHO. But most that know me know I'm nuts. Hope this helps, and that others that work on these baits will also chime in as some have already.

David

[.dsaavedra.]

thanks for the advice guys!

[captsully18]

mark poulsonRe: Jointed Lipless Swimbait

I guess good head is a matter of opinion......

Really.........?

David

[.dsaavedra.]

mark poulsonRe: Jointed Lipless Swimbait

I guess good head is a matter of opinion......

Really.........?

David

[jrhopkins]

you mean like this? lots of time and frustration:cry:. seriously, 1) the joint needs to be as friction free as possible. 2) i weight each segment with the weight as low in the belly as possible. 3) the second joint needs to be the widest part of the body, this allows the water to move the second joint from side to side as you retreive it. 4) joint spacing will affect the swimming action as well. this will differ from bait to bait depending on the size. 5) the more joints, the more fluid the action will be.

lastly, shave your head to prevent premature hair loss;)?

[Snax]

John is the guy to listen to if you want a lifelike swimming motion in a swimbait. Check out that video clip and then wipe the drool off the floor!

[.dsaavedra.]

john i looked thru your photobucket and those american shad are AMAZING! i would love to make one just like that.

could you help me with how to shape the head to get them to swim?

i have a hard time believing that a rounded head would make it swim, seems to me a rounded head would just come clean thru the water. i would think there has to be some flat part like on a lipless crank to get it to swim. is this true? could you please explain how to shape the head! thanks.

[Matt Moreau]

WOW John, you are truly amazing. I am stinn having a hard time with getting double jointed swimbaits to run correctly. Your baits are amaizing though! Thanks for all the help in the past i owe what i have done to you and this site. Keep practicing and trying new ideas DSV, and dont take shortcuts!

[Snax]

i have a hard time believing that a rounded head would make it swim, seems to me a rounded head would just come clean thru the water. i would think there has to be some flat part like on a lipless crank to get it to swim. is this true? could you please explain how to shape the head! thanks.

DSV,

It's not the shape of the head that causes the body to undulate like it does but the flow of water over the length of the body. Many of my solid body gliders would also tend to "swim" on a straight retrieve despite some of them having a rounded head. Having the free moving body segments and proper joint placements is crucial in having a smooth swimming motion.

As you can see by John's baits, the more joints there are, the more fluid the motion will be.

[Vodkaman]

My gut feeling is that the action is caused by vortices generated at the actual joints. I seem to remember that someone already mentioned this possibility recently. But the fact that Snax states that some of his one piece bodies tend to swim in the same fashion contradicts this idea.

This theory can be tested quite simply, without intrusion. By attaching 'cling film' around the joint, to eliminate the joint effect. This should be light enough so that it does not inhibit the free movement of the joints.

I invite one of you to try this experiment and report back. If the lure loses its action with the film attached, then the hinge vortices are favourite. If it swims as normal, then we have to find another theory.