6_feet_deep Posted March 19, 2008 Report Share Posted March 19, 2008 A few quotes... "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." ~Thomas Jefferson "Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto." ~Thomas Jefferson "Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state." ~Thomas Jefferson "As long as there are guns, the individual that wants a gun for a crime is going to have one and going to get it." ~Ronald Reagan "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined" ~Patrick Henry "The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun." ~Patrick Henry "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..." ~Richard Henry Lee "And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions." ~Samuel Adams, Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of 1788 "The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. ~James Madison "To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWW36 Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 As an Englishman (and proud of it !) I read all your comments with mixed feelings, although I respect without hesitation your rights as a democracy you do make some strange comments. You seem to be under the impression that without firearms you will live in some kind of Stallinist dictatorship, this is simply not true, we manage without firearms ( although admittedly we do have our fair share of gun crime!) and we are one of the most liberal democracies going. Although I agree with your constitutional rights (based on our Magna Carta although we didnt get the 'right to bear arms' bit.!) the only question I have is how do you justify automatic weapons and having lots of weapons just to defend your home. The problem you have is convincing everybody that gun crime is not the guns fault its the idiot behind it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Va Posted March 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Paul, you have brought up an interesting point, and I don't wish to start a heated debate with you or the UK. But, if you read our Constitution and Bill of Rights, you will find they revolve almost entirely around the British law of the time. And thats not saying we condemned Britain then or now. "No taxation without representation" was a slogan, a war cry. But far from the reason. It boiled down to basic human rights. If you review British law prior to 1776 you begin to see real tyranny. Who the heck wants to live like that? To this day British law is very different from ours. We would never tolerate cameras on every street corner being owned and operated by police, or having to pay for a license just to join the BBC website, we get in to it for free here. We don't pay television tax either. When you live life such as we do here, you better appreciate the freedom you have here, and the the teeth of common man to keep it. Our forefathers knew we would never keep it unless we could always equate our power with the central government. There would always be balance in the system. As for machine guns- rubbish, as you folks say. Automatic weapons are so highly regulated here by the fed gov that only serious collectors who are willing to pay the price for them, have them(and some very high end criminals). That means registering it with BATF, paying an expensive tax just for the license (per weapon), and allowing random inspection of your home for proper storage. The weapon has to be kept in a vault, ammo separated in a different vault. All this crap you see about America gun violence is entirely Hollywood and the media. MOST gun violence in America is carried out with cheap disposable weapons that have limited capacity, and anytime an above standard firearm is use.. oh boy we hear allllll about it. This argument this week is about whether or not we have a right to so much as own a firearm of any kind. Wars have been started over much less. The courts decision either closes the book on an old question and we carry on, or, it opens the gate for a flood of gun grabbing, civil unrest and hostilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWW36 Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Brian, please dont think I was being in the slightest bit derogatory ! You have to remember we tend to mostly hear the bad things that happen over there ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Va Posted March 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 no no no... I knew better, Paul. And I know the world gets all the crap and nearly nothing else from our media, "freedom of the press" has not always been a good thing. BTW- how ironic that a Brit named Paul is a ranking member of my church and delivers his "Britishisms" to us each week, funny guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike-A-Pike Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Pual; Brian. I remember reading (and believing) that British and American citizens are two peoples separated largely by a common language. I had the honor and pleasure, as a member of the US Marines and US Air Force, of working with some of the finest British military professionals during my time in uniform. Countless times, as we got to know each other and get comfortable being around one another, we would discuss a broad range of topics. One of the most interesting points that kept coming up time and again was the American "Right to bear arms" and the use of the British Home Guard during WWII. It is my belief that the use of the British Home Guard was one of the main reasons that Hitler's Germany never launched an actual invasion attempt beyond the air campaigns. Regardless if you are talking about London or New York City, the press gives the front page of the home town papers, to the story with the worst headlines. America's war on terrorism has received negative press around the world; after the bombings in the British "tubes", several US papers tried to claim the UK police were going after ALL Islamic Immigrants and rounding them up for deportation. Since "Desert Storm" and "Desert Shield" in the early 1990's, I have always tried to read different sources of the same reports and accounts, to form my own opinions. Least I forget... Paul - Welcome to the Tackleunderground.com. It seems a little crazy to welcome you on board to site where the membership is drawn together by a common passion for lure building and fishing; and the first discussion is on a subject that polarizes just about everyone who engages it. Hope you will look past this - what are your interests in terms of tackle making and fishing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6_feet_deep Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 ...You seem to be under the impression that without firearms you will live in some kind of Stallinist dictatorship, this is simply not true...the only question I have is how do you justify automatic weapons and having lots of weapons just to defend your home. The sad thing is Paul that there are actually people who do believe that the common man possessing firearms prevents the next Hitler. I can totally understand the questions you may have. Just look at it from the angle that we, as a country, started due to the result of protest to oppression on certain fronts. Early history showed us that political factions tried to de-arm an established society in order to further control them. I personally do not believe that my firearms are going to prevent the next world war, but they do give many Americans a feeling of security and I do believe that the more law abiding, responsible citizens that own firearms the better. As many people have said, criminals will always have access to firearms and the banning of ownership to the law abider only hurts the law abider. The problem that many will not admit in this country is that when we decided to fight oppression, we ended up being like the evil we abhored in our actions towards the native people of the land we were trying to establish for our own. That's a whole other discussion for another day though. Either way, most people have a strong opinion based on principle...in the south you're spoon fed "America, the land of the free with a right to bear arms." When the Govt. is talking of taking that right away after over 200 years...it raises many eyebrows. This quote helps understand the feelings of many...like all situations, people do tend to lean too far to one side of the fence and you will always have people who believe that uncle sam is ready to kick in doors and start marshal law , but for anyone to think violence or crime can be more controlled by taking away the legal right to bear arms is crazy and it does raise a question as to why the govt would be thinking of this... This quote should help the mentality of some: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing...." -- Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWW36 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Can I just say what a pleasure it is speak to people with such well informed and level headed views, it restores my faith in humanity that you are not all 'John Rambo' types ! Bruce, you do not need to stress to us the importance of ignoring newspaper talk, we cant even beleive our own over here let alone anyone elses. With regards my fishing, I mainly fish for Pike, with my personal best being 24 lb. although I have never made a lure yet I intend to start soon, so I am gleaning as much information from you experts as possible !!! Now, if I can just convince you Yanks to drive on the left :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6_feet_deep Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 ...although I have never made a lure yet I intend to start soon, so I am gleaning as much information from you experts as possible !!! You came to the right place..that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike-A-Pike Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks Paul, You have reconfirmed my belief that if people would just learn to talk and exchange ideas, the world would be a better place. About that "drive on the left" thing, the Challenger main battle tanks I've seen always drive down the center of the road, just like the Abrams... I'm guilty of taking this subject very personally, sorry if my expression of my views offended anyone. Maybe we need to stop beating this dead horse and get back to our common core interest and important stuff like fishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smirkplug Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 As a responsible gun owner (in California of all places) i just want to thank all who participate in this thread for all the insight and opinions. I see so much research and level headed views it really adds to restoring some faith in the Americans i i have always admired. Thanks Again !!! I do really sometimes fear that California is a different country !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Va Posted March 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 As irony would have it. A former Marine pilot sent me this in my mail yesterday. I think this little lady sums it up about well as ti could be and reiterates my sentiment about the right to keep and bear arms, NOT for the purpose of hunting ducks, but for what the forefathers intended all along. She literally took the words right out of my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
